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[Experimenting] Turning around

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  • [Experimenting] Turning around

    So I was kind of bored and decided to investigate a little on turning around in the game. (I don't really know where to put this precisely so I am placing this here)
    I created an experiment which would allow me to see how turn rates work in dota 2 and then compare them to WC3 turn rates, I hope that those who don't know how turn rate works can learn something from this experiment and that those who do know how it works can confirm their knowledge here.

    The experiment consists of the following.

    1) Vengeful Spirit casting 3 magic missiles to determinate how long it takes to cast 3 shifted spells.
    2) Vengeful Spirit casting a magic missile, a nether swap and a third magic missile to determinate how much it takes to turn around.
    3) Vengeful Spirit doing 1) but with the sticky napalm debuff.
    4) Vengeful Spirit doing 2) but with the sticky napalm debuff.

    From this experiment I found that it takes VS 0.17 seconds to do a 180 degrees turn around, 0.56 seconds to do a 180 degrees turn around under sticky napalm.

    Combat log

    Venge has a turn rate of 0.6, so we can expect that turn rate is the equivalent of 300 degrees every 0.17 seconds.

    If we multiply both of those numbers by six we obtain 1800 degrees every second. This means that a unit with turn rate 1 can do 5 full turns every second, or a turn every 0.2 seconds.

    Now let's move this to WC3 mechanics. There a unit with turn rate 1 means that the unit turns 1 radian every 0.03 seconds. If we multiply by 6 we get that the unit does almost a full turn every 0.18 seconds, we can approx it to a full turn every 0.2 seconds, which means the mechanic works the same than in WC3.

    I will later on try to figure out some experiment for Naix and see how he works since he has the really special turn rate of 2,1.

  • #2
    While you're at it: skim this, if you haven't already. Apparently, turn rates in DotA 1 were capped for some reason.


    • #3
      The experiment goes on.

      After making a bit of memory check I realized that I did something wrong in the experiment.

      The problem is that venge has a casting window of 120~ degrees, this means that she does not need to do a full turn to start casting magic missile, she needs to turn around 120 degrees, meaning that she does not possess a correct turn rate, it takes her way longer than it should to start casting the magic missile than in WC3.

      So we come here to an interesting conclusion, either turn rate is wrong, or heroes lack a casting window.

      After a further experiment I came to the conclusion that heroes posses no casting window, they MUST BE FACING the target to cast an spell.

      The experiment is as follows:

      Magnus uses RP on tinker.
      Tinker uses Bot on tower.
      Tinker shifts dagon on vengeful spirit that is somewhat away from the line.

      Result is Tinker takes 0.1 seconds to cast the dagon rather than instantly seeing as how she is in his casting window of 120 degrees.

      Conclusion: There is no propulsion window in dota 2 to cast spells.
      Conclusion 2: Turn rates are correctly implemented in the game.
      Last edited by Shamanics; 05-24-2013, 06:01 PM.


      • #4
        I am of the opinion that the propulsion window is probably wrong.

        Thanks for doing these tests, by the way; this stuff is important.


        • #5
          Originally posted by imxtrabored View Post
          While you're at it: skim this, if you haven't already. Apparently, turn rates in DotA 1 were capped for some reason.
          Yes I am aware of that, this is why I will later on test with Naix, but I have to come up with a way to test it, it is not as easy as it seems....


          • #6
            Good work! Keep on testing. These are the threads the devs really care about.


            • #7
              Experiment, test lifestealer's turn rate.

              The test consists of lifestealer, beastmaster, doom and vengeful spirit.

              For first case lifesteal will be in the middle (approx) of venge and doom.
              For the second case they will be aligned but lifestealer doom will be in the middle.

              Beastmaster will cast roar on naix and naix will shift queue 2 open wounds, one on doom and the other one on VS on both cases, here are the results:


              It turns out that it takes Naix 0.14 second to turn around. Considering the turn rate might be capped at around 0.7 this result comes into the expected margin of error of the experiment.

              Now we will do the same experiment under the influence of sticky napalm and see the results.

              Here are the results:

              As you can see we now have 90 and 57.

              If we do the math it takes Naix 0.33 seconds to turn around under the influence of Sticky Napalm, no matter how you look at it his turn rate is completely wrong, at MOST it would be the regular turn rate of VS, 0.14 seconds which is a turn rate of 0.6 and Naix is supposed to have a turn rate of 0.63 under sticky napalm, but it takes Naix MORE THAN THE DOUBLE of the expected result, there is something really odd here.
              Last edited by Shamanics; 05-24-2013, 06:26 PM.


              • #8
                It turns out Naix has a turn rate of 1 rather than 2.1, which explains all the weird behaviour of the experiment.


                • #9
                  I thought WC3's turning speed used acceleration with a capped maximum velocity, not a linear velocity.


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by clan_iraq View Post
                    I thought WC3's turning speed used acceleration with a capped maximum velocity, not a linear velocity.
                    Yes, but the turn rate is "the average" turn speed. Say I want to do a 180 degrees turn, I will start turning slowly, then turn faster, then turn slower and it averages out to X radians per second where X is turn rate (for low values). If I want to do a 90 degrees turn the turning speed is different, but it averages the same X radians per second.


                    • #11
                      Ok, redid the Tinker experiment, I could not obtain a value less than 0.02 to get the dagon, I'd assume that either we have another bug here than no propulsion window, but I am not really sure of this. If someone can get a value of 0.01 then we can confirm there is no propulsion window.


                      • #12
                        Lifestealer's turnrate said it got changed to 1 in some patchnotes, but it's actually still 2.1 or 3 or something (in WC3 DotA).
                        Comprehensive Damage Reduction & Amplifications Dota 2 Guide