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[Suggestion] Let players be able to walk down elevated ledges / ward spots

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  • [Suggestion] Let players be able to walk down elevated ledges / ward spots

    I've been thinking - currently one of the main problems with DotA 2 (and even WC3 DotA in fact) is that by using certain items and abilities, you are able to go up a high ledge (such as the elevated ward spots) and essentially get stuck there for the rest of the match unless someone kills you or unless you carried a TP scroll. I know many people have been abusing this "feature", which is not only infuriating but game-breaking to a certain extend.

    This has been such a problem that supposedly they have removed Pudge's and VS's ability to use the Blink Dagger for this purpose a couple of years ago. But it wasn't enough.

    My suggestion to fix the issue is to allow players to go down from such "prisons" as if they momentarily gained the ability to phase through everything like with Spectre's Spectral Dagger and Spirit Breaker's Charge for as long as they stand on the platform. Sort of like an invisible/unmarked buff you momentarily get when standing on such platforms.

    I'm not sure that they could do this with the WC3 engine... but since DotA 2 uses a different, most likely very customizable engine, adding this would not only be simple but would also potentially give back Pudge and VS the ability to use Blink Dagger once more.

    ____________________________

    Not 100% sure, but I believe these items and abilities can be used to get stuck on such platforms (even if only for a moment):

    Items
    Blink Dagger
    Force Staff*
    Boots of Travel
    TP Scroll

    Abilities
    Tiny's Toss*
    Pudge's Hook*
    Spirit Breaker's Charge
    Anti-Mage's Blink
    Morphling's Replicate
    Vengeful Spirit's Nether Swap*
    Spectre's Spectral Dagger & Haunt
    Puck's Illusory Orb
    Nature Prophet's Teleportation
    Queen of Pain's Blink
    Dark Seer's Vacuum*

    *: causes other players to get stuck
    Last edited by Bleako; 04-03-2012, 02:31 PM. Reason: added list

  • #2
    Tactics my friends,tactics.Also look up the pudge fountain hook if you want to see the best glitch in this category (insanely hard to repro though)

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    • #3
      Im pretty sure vacuum and Forcestaff going upcliff(the ward spot) is a bug. others,like the guy said above me tactics.
      and beside it's not like every game u dont have a courier that could bring you your tp

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      • #4
        Like said before vacuum shouldn't be able to trap enemies that is a bug. HoN uses something close to your suggestion and it is horrible. If you get stuck there you should stay there until your ability wears off in my opinion.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Martin Andrei View Post
          Tactics my friends,tactics.
          Anything that can be used to counter a game breaking bug can be seen as a "tactic" but IMO it's either a bug or a bad game design choice. Worst case scenario, none of your teammates have a Force Staff, you have no TP scroll and your opponents put wards and kill your couriers. Second worst case scenario, you have a TP scroll but Pugna puts a Nether Ward close to you (but out of your reach) whenever he can.

          I mean, having the opposing team frequently check up on you so you don't leave this spot could be seen as a "tactic" by your definition of it.
          Last edited by Bleako; 04-03-2012, 02:29 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Konung View Post
            HoN uses something close to your suggestion and it is horrible.
            Yes but Valve is making the game I have much more confidence in Valve than in S2 Games.

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            • #7
              Do they have -unstuck already? That would work well with these game-breaking bugs.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Bleako View Post
                Anything that can be used to counter a game breaking bug can be seen as a "tactic" but IMO it's either a bug or a bad game design choice. Worst case scenario, none of your teammates have a Force Staff, you have no TP scroll and your opponents put wards and kill your couriers. Second worst case scenario, you have a TP scroll but Pugna puts a Nether Ward close to you (but out of your reach) whenever he can.

                I mean, having the opposing team frequently check up on you so you don't leave this spot could be seen as a "tactic" by your definition of it.
                It's not like on game u will shoutout HEY,OPPONENT IM STUCK IN HERE LOOK AT ME! and beside pugna nether ward dont interfere with teleporting.
                Last edited by iamskye; 04-04-2012, 04:23 AM.

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                • #9
                  disagree with give pudge and VS dagger again

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                  • #10
                    i have played more than 600 games of dota 2 already. most of which were in the high skilled category. i have never (read: NEVER) been stuck on a cliff or unpassable area in those games.
                    i have tried to do stuff like that with vacuum a few times, but it didnt do much.

                    i have witnessed a tinker, moving up and down the sentinel jungle ward spot in a fight. it was fairly ok, because the enemies were just to stupid to use their spells (bara, hex, etc) to take a hold of him.

                    the issues, you described have almost no impact on the game and if they do, it is hilarious. giving every hero a "phase ability" would create much more room of abuse than any of the listed abilities can.
                    the only thing, i can agree on, is a -unstuck command as a failsafe. a command, that nobody had to use in my last 600 dota 1 games either.
                    Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

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                    • #11
                      Hello,

                      I just want to give some perspective to the case. I have come from HoN and that game has a built in -unstuck function. Whenever your hero is traped anywhere the game automatically gives you cliff walking.

                      I find this feature very nice, since you can get stuck with the items and abilities mentioned before here. It doesn't happen too often, but it sure is frustrating being moved to a cliff and having to stay there until a courrier brings you a TP. And I see no reason for this to be added to the game.

                      Because of these feature, any hero can use a Blink Dagger in HoN, including Pudge and Vengeful Spirit. Since they can't 'trap' you outside of combat.

                      But this feature also has a side effect, when you are stuck because a hero or creep is blocking your way the -unstuck will kick in and you'll be able to walk through cliffs and trees for an instant. It takes a lot of skill to get stuck by other heros, and it can only be done in some specific spots on the map, but it happens sometimes, like here:

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbgQd9JJCvY

                      I'd still rather have this feature added to Dota2, I have only 50 games so far but I have seen this happen like 5 times alredy, specially in heroes with a blink dagger.

                      PS.: In case you wanna know, in the video above it's Lion mid getting ganked by Tiny and Riki.

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                      • #12
                        thats exactly, what i meant when talking about additional ways of abuse!

                        to be clear: i was talking about -unstuck as in dota 1 (you know, the game, dota 2 is based on). You can type -unstuck and are rendered UNABLE TO MOVE AND ATTACK for 60 seconds. after those 60 seconds you will be respawned at your fountain.

                        -unstuck is primarily to deal with rare glitches.
                        Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

                        Contributions i'd like to highlight:
                        My Suggestion: Coaching System
                        My Sticky: Intended Changes List
                        My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

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                        • #13
                          I must have over 10 thousand games of dota/dota2 and that rarely happens. Totally Unnecessary.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by iamskye View Post
                            pugna nether ward dont interfere with teleporting.
                            TPing requires mana. Nether Ward drains mana. Anyways it was just an example.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by blash365 View Post
                              i have played more than 600 games of dota 2 already. most of which were in the high skilled category. i have never (read: NEVER) been stuck on a cliff or unpassable area in those games. [...] the issues, you described have almost no impact on the game and if they do, it is hilarious.
                              Originally posted by pard View Post
                              I must have over 10 thousand games of dota/dota2 and that rarely happens. Totally Unnecessary.
                              I greatly disagree with this. You guys might not have experienced this issue, but I have. It's incredibly infuriating and would be even more so if the enemy players had decided to leave me there instead of killing my hero. And it does have an impact on the game not just for the reasons I gave earlier but also because competitive gaming should only allow skill and strategy to be the defining causes of victory, not the use of exploits.

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