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Fog of War

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  • Fog of War

    Well, i'm no expert in this game, nor in its thecnical parts just as where it should be fog or not BUT, as very good fog user(juker) i REALLY feel fog in Dota 2 is far diferent from dota 1.
    I was watching WoDota today and realized such jukes just wouldnt happen in dota 2, the most critical issue right now i think its on the Normal attack of a ranged pulling off even if i go in fog, that should definitely not happen.

    Overall i think fog still needs a LOT of work, mby the pros could help about it....?

    Anyone feels the same? i cant tell specifically whats wrong but yeah, juking in dota 2 is nothing like in dota 1. and i prefered dota 1's way.

    EDIT: User Moe made a video showing exactly what happens when someone try to juke http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwTKUsWIA8g

    I noticed that TARGET SKILLS cancels perfectly over fog, maybe if auto-hits mechanics were adjusted to cancel the same way should fix it.
    Last edited by DarkSuo; 06-24-2012, 12:02 PM.
    Maverick Hunter.

  • #2
    Am i really the only one to notice this?? wow.
    Maverick Hunter.

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    • #3
      Coming from an LOL playing background I can not add any viable in-put since I never played Dota. Although I do have an issue with the fog of war in Dota2 compared to LOL.I just can not seem to get my finger on it. I will keep playing to see if i can pin point it.

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      • #4
        I think there's a longer time of Heros chasing you into fog after a ranged attack resulting in jukes being harder to do. It's not overly noticeable though.

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        • #5
          I think the key deference is:
          - in dota1, right click on enemy -> enemy goes in to fog (you lose vision) -> your hero stops
          - in dota2, right click on enemy -> enemy goes in to fog (you lose vision) -> your hero moves to the point where the enemy was in chase mode -> if your hero gains vision again, it will act like you have right clicked on enemy again. repeat.

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          • #6
            I noticed too the time taken to a fog to be revealed as you walk in. In dota 1 it had something like Half a second for you to actually reaveal it, making possible those "go in then come out" jukes, as in dota 2 its pretty much instant. I think this and the chase on fog (like CvP stated) are the most noticeable ones.
            Last edited by DarkSuo; 05-03-2012, 06:25 AM.
            Maverick Hunter.

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            • #7
              I think both changes are for the good. Juking is still ok and new players wont go "WTF?!" when their hero suddenly stops while chasing.

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              • #8
                Oh do you think so? i think we lost like 50% potencial to escape using jukes. ALSO, the attack firing AFTER the hero enters on fog its a visible bug. The reveal time too could be adjusted, i dont think new players will even notice that.

                Also this is a very advanced mechanic that IMO should be mantained from the old W3 engine. You can call me elitist but yeah, i think jukes its a very pleasent way to outplay someone.
                Maverick Hunter.

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                • #9
                  Agreed. At the moment it's much harder to juke against high movementspeed enemies because they can just right-click you and sit back. In DotA1 they would have to actively pursue you through the trees.

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                  • #10
                    Today i rightclicked an enemey hero as Spectre and my hero just followed him trough the fog.....andi havent even used spectral dagger... rly something is wrong here.
                    Maverick Hunter.

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                    • #11
                      maybe you went till the point you clicked and then got vision again and auto attack followed him.

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                      • #12
                        Agreed, juking seems very different in Dota 2.

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                        • #13
                          This shouldn't happen in any way, when targeted enemy hero enters fog your hero should stop completely, this is a VERY IMPORTANT factor in jukes. Also theres need to exist a delay in fog revelation, something around 0.2~0.3 sec, not instantly as it is now.
                          Last edited by DarkSuo; 05-14-2012, 01:19 AM.
                          Maverick Hunter.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CvP View Post
                            I think the key deference is:
                            - in dota1, right click on enemy -> enemy goes in to fog (you lose vision) -> your hero stops
                            - in dota2, right click on enemy -> enemy goes in to fog (you lose vision) -> your hero moves to the point where the enemy was in chase mode -> if your hero gains vision again, it will act like you have right clicked on enemy again. repeat.
                            Yes, I've noticed this. Often I've fired with a hero like Mirana on someone disappearing into fog when I feel like she should not have made that last shot in Dota1, or in Dota1 I would have had to chase a little further to get the last shot.

                            Also, it seems 'target acquiring' is virtually instant in Dota2 compared to Dota1, as you mentioned. But it is actually more powerful than that because it pertains to spells as well as the auto-attack ground command. There were many instances where I saw a hero appear and disappear from fog for a split second but I still got the shot off, where Dota1 the hero would merely turn but wouldn't have made the shot. The same thing happened with spells, where I clicked to cast but lost sight and suddenly regained sight about 1 second later, then the spell fired immediately for the kill; surprising even myself.

                            These are the very reasons I advocate leaving auto-attack on because you acquire targets and land hits that would be too fast to humanly do otherwise.

                            If someone were to devise a autocast targetting hook into the game, it would give a pronounced advantage similar to what bots have. If you run into a Sven bot and collide from fog, he will stun you first pretty much every time. I feel the outcome would definitely be less one-sided in a Dota1 setting against the same Sven bot.


                            I would agree and it also seems these issues are compounded by fog lifting slightly more quickly and in larger 'bursts'.


                            But I won't necessarily argue that Dota1's fog was better or worse than Dota2's because this does increase the pace of micro significantly and could very well be intended to make the game more competitive. This kind of makes the game more offensive and less defensive in these scenarios, which I can see arguments for and against on both sides. But like me leaving auto-attack on, on purpose, the faster fog will be adaptable in many ways to players that can find the ways. More room for error = more room for skill.
                            Last edited by poogs; 05-14-2012, 02:02 AM.

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                            • #15
                              I support ur post i felt the same today, while i was watching wodota.
                              You can't do such things in dota2 that's fucking horrible and sad for the dota players...
                              Great that there some players who noticed this.
                              I hope for some changes in the future, it's a part of DotA man don't fuck it up valve :/

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