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Ramp and fog issues

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  • #16
    @pglppasarel

    I was thinking about this too, about the things people post and we end up with no response, so its impossible to know if this was intendend or a bug. But we have to think that they have a giant flux of feedback going on right now, and It's impossible to response every single thread.

    About the topic, it's strange at D2 but feels real, so because of that I feel like its something right to keep. Both ways pleases me, but its like 51% the new one and 49% the old way.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Hemick View Post
      I don't know anyone that plays DotA over HoN because the map is slightly different. Generally it's because of something they dislike about the heroes or balance of the game, or for that matter a lack of a hero.

      The game will evolve with Dota 2, players should expect a lot of things to change.
      Good point, it's always about the balance of the heroes or the way the company runs the game. Btw where's the pro players and developers opinions on these kind of things, I honestly have no idea what direction DOTA2 wants to go. HoN developers were way more open and transparent about issues like this. Making a 1:1 copy of a flawed game will give you flawed results.
      Last edited by akaHideinlight; 12-05-2011, 11:43 AM.

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      • #18
        If this was unintentional, I would expect them to do something about it. It truly does change a lot.

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        • #19
          i've noticed that dota2 is a little bit less forgiving when it comes to vision on around ramps, maybe its an intended change that was difficult to do in wc3.

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          • #20
            This need to be changed for sure! Port it just as it was in DotA1 , this is a basic characteristic to the DotA game , the map MUST in my opinion respect the same sizes , fog thing , and even tree layout ( Trees in DotA2 are harder to eat + juke than in DotA1 )

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            • #21
              I like the new way.

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              • #22
                It makes mid a lot scarier without wards on the opposite side of river, that's for sure.
                Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/saeren

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                • #23
                  Personally I don't mind it much. However I do think that the high ground should allow visibility to the area below. When you are down in the river it makes sense that you can't see up, but if you are up above, you should be able to see the river below.

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                  • #24
                    i agree this needs to be changed..i play Dota 2 believing it would be a port of Dota 1..
                    things like this are one of the reasons why i play dota instead of hon or lol..
                    the gameplay differs if these are changed

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                    • #25
                      I like the new way,

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Ai-nyan View Post
                        DotA 2 was supposed to be almost identical, except for fixing inconveniences and bugs such as windwalk interfering with crits and bashes. IceFrog said that himself, and what we have now doesn't live up to his words, though still might get changed, but these are the things that should have been done right from the start.
                        Source please. All I can find is this excerpt from initial Q&A:
                        Q: Don’t you think you should make a lot of changes to the gameplay? (by Robert)
                        A: Significant changes would not necessarily make it a better game. There are countless features we are building around the game that will make the experience a much better one. The gameplay itself, though, has always evolved step by step, and it will continue with that methodology. We consider this a long term project, in the same way DotA has always been. We want to provide a quality experience and not just change for the sake of change. You’ll naturally see additions and improvements to the game as time passes, but it would be a natural progression aimed at improving the game for the players and not for other arbitrary reasons. Valve and I strongly believe that the player focused development process the game has gone through is what will allow us to continue making the best decisions with regards to where we spend our development time.
                        You and the likes of you are what's wrong with this community. Any little change is taken with extreme hostility. It's literally over the forums: "hurr durr we don't need dis new sheet giv us dota with new graphics" or, even more often, "derp it's from lol/hon it's bad". No weighted arguments, just plain hate for changes.
                        All hail St. Regina!

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                        • #27
                          Dota 2 is meant to be similar enough to Dota 1 where you can just start playing Dota 2 and after a couple games, pretty much get the hang of everything. It has done that already. It isn't suppose to be an exact replicate with just improved graphics. It just isn't suppose to be dramatically different. Lets say they made Dota 2 exactly like Dota 1. Then after they decided to make some balance changes in future updates. Would you argue and qq that it changed? That is exactly what they are doing now, just implementing some changes right away instead of porting the old then changing it, since that is just a waste of time. Some things aren't intended, thus people report it and they would probably end up changing it. Other things are intended, and you just gotta accept it instead of using the same argument about it being different from Dota 1 constantly.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by spektor View Post
                            Source please. All I can find is this excerpt from initial Q&A:

                            You and the likes of you are what's wrong with this community. Any little change is taken with extreme hostility. It's literally over the forums: "hurr durr we don't need dis new sheet giv us dota with new graphics" or, even more often, "derp it's from lol/hon it's bad". No weighted arguments, just plain hate for changes.
                            This is rude and ignorant. I don't know how you can blatantly make statements like this thinking it's really true.

                            The current fog mechanic in relation to the ramp does make the game different. Especially that of a early mid lane meta. It provides a safer cover and makes heroes like Viper less threatening. I don't mind changes as long as they have a good rationale behind it. For example, being able to sell the purchased items in your stash is a great idea. The current fog fog & ramp is not the result of this however, but a poor emulation of what should be.

                            I think any reasonable person would understand that DotA 2 will be different from DotA 1. But it will try to emulate DotA 1 as best as it can, and this thread is to point out that there's something fundamentally wrong with how fog and ramp works. It's very clear when somethings were the way they were due to the limitations of the wc3 engine (Firefly with Phase Boots and etc.), and when DotA 2 fixes it, it's alright. Because we all understand that it should never have been that way in the first place.

                            There are some things however that are very important. And the current fog system has a lot of issues, this being one of them. Some can't see the value of it. So be it. It doesn't concern you. If this doesn't get changed, you are content. If it does get changed, you don't care. So why does anyone have the need to come in and make rude comments that leads nowhere is beyond me.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by pjlworld View Post
                              This is rude and ignorant. I don't know how you can blatantly make statements like this thinking it's really true.
                              I don't see how reasonable player (read: who doesn't yell "omg valve y u no do it like it was in dota" about any change) can be offended by my post. Sure, some changes can be bad and this is why the game still in beta. To test them, not to dissmiss with simple "not like in dota so no way".
                              But hey, i'm rude and ignorant, so why even try to read my post? It's always better to say i don't care about the game i want change in sake of change.
                              All hail St. Regina!

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                              • #30
                                Found this too.
                                Valve should fix it, because it changes all the mid metagame

                                Available for any game

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