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Ramp and fog issues

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  • wachon1992
    replied
    lol just lol

    2 years after this and it wasnt fixed and its not even something so big to fix... valve keeps dissapointing me. gota add those hats wich 80% arent even made by valve but the community, t hey just add em and make money and we get this things not fixed. lame lame lame

    Leave a comment:


  • kolt
    replied
    up

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  • chunkyboy
    replied
    bump

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  • Zentry
    replied
    Any updates on this? This is a pretty substantial difference.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ai-nyan
    replied
    It's still in Beta, ok, everyone knows that. It's just that no official stance has been set whether this is going to get fixed or not.

    Leave a comment:


  • pjlworld
    replied
    Keep in mind that this is Valve's first RTS with unit pathing and FOW. Whereas WC3 was Blizzard's third installment of the RTS series with years of experience. It may take Valve some time to get this correctly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ai-nyan
    replied
    Originally posted by spektor View Post
    Source please. All I can find is this excerpt from initial Q&A:

    You and the likes of you are what's wrong with this community. Any little change is taken with extreme hostility. It's literally over the forums: "hurr durr we don't need dis new sheet giv us dota with new graphics" or, even more often, "derp it's from lol/hon it's bad". No weighted arguments, just plain hate for changes.
    Here's a proof, and just FUI, changes in FOW is pretty major difference to older players.

    Originally Posted by IceFrog View Post
    There isn't any changelog really, we've kept it up to date with the latest version of dota. Our intention is that there are no major differences, but of course the game is still in beta development.

    There are relatively minor changes primarily around fixing unintended bugs, like how the tower AI sometimes ignores Bat Rider completely (only partially fixed in dota1 recently), or Phase Boots causing critical strikes and bash to malfunction while active. Another example of a bug fix from dota1 to 2 is Maelstrom proc chance never working if you did not issue an attack order explicitly. We will eventually make changes in Dota2 (remakes, new content, etc), but when we do that it will be when you guys are actively playing it and seeing/testing the changes directly.

    As the tournament is being played, I'll do my best to clarify things whenever it is needed and as time allows.
    http://www.playdota.com/forums/showp...&postcount=111
    In this specific thread
    http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=512292
    Pretty sure Ice has said the same thing with different lines in other occasions as well.

    And, no, seriously.... I have nothing against changes as long as they are rational and justified with explanation needed in cases like this.
    So, a pretty please, can we have a confirmation whether these changes in FOW are intended to stay or not from a Staff member, be it Ice Frog himself or someone else?
    Last edited by Ai-nyan; 02-01-2012, 05:58 AM.

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  • Kajiya
    replied
    Maybe he just wants to change the metagame?
    Every person who touched the World Editor in Wc3 knows that the engine is limited, the editor is powerful but there are alot of hardcoded things you just cant change. And maybe Icefrog wanted to have cliffs like this for all the years but the engine didnt allowed it. Now he can do what he wanted to do for several years.
    Just adopt to it, humans are made to adopt to new situation anyway. The metagame with the cliffs changed already and pro teams already used it to their advantage by using the higher ground, even more then in dota 1.
    Also "things" that cant adopt the changes just die out over some time anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • Reevenous
    replied
    Found this too.
    Valve should fix it, because it changes all the mid metagame

    Leave a comment:


  • spektor
    replied
    Originally posted by pjlworld View Post
    This is rude and ignorant. I don't know how you can blatantly make statements like this thinking it's really true.
    I don't see how reasonable player (read: who doesn't yell "omg valve y u no do it like it was in dota" about any change) can be offended by my post. Sure, some changes can be bad and this is why the game still in beta. To test them, not to dissmiss with simple "not like in dota so no way".
    But hey, i'm rude and ignorant, so why even try to read my post? It's always better to say i don't care about the game i want change in sake of change.

    Leave a comment:


  • pjlworld
    replied
    Originally posted by spektor View Post
    Source please. All I can find is this excerpt from initial Q&A:

    You and the likes of you are what's wrong with this community. Any little change is taken with extreme hostility. It's literally over the forums: "hurr durr we don't need dis new sheet giv us dota with new graphics" or, even more often, "derp it's from lol/hon it's bad". No weighted arguments, just plain hate for changes.
    This is rude and ignorant. I don't know how you can blatantly make statements like this thinking it's really true.

    The current fog mechanic in relation to the ramp does make the game different. Especially that of a early mid lane meta. It provides a safer cover and makes heroes like Viper less threatening. I don't mind changes as long as they have a good rationale behind it. For example, being able to sell the purchased items in your stash is a great idea. The current fog fog & ramp is not the result of this however, but a poor emulation of what should be.

    I think any reasonable person would understand that DotA 2 will be different from DotA 1. But it will try to emulate DotA 1 as best as it can, and this thread is to point out that there's something fundamentally wrong with how fog and ramp works. It's very clear when somethings were the way they were due to the limitations of the wc3 engine (Firefly with Phase Boots and etc.), and when DotA 2 fixes it, it's alright. Because we all understand that it should never have been that way in the first place.

    There are some things however that are very important. And the current fog system has a lot of issues, this being one of them. Some can't see the value of it. So be it. It doesn't concern you. If this doesn't get changed, you are content. If it does get changed, you don't care. So why does anyone have the need to come in and make rude comments that leads nowhere is beyond me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kuchiyose
    replied
    Dota 2 is meant to be similar enough to Dota 1 where you can just start playing Dota 2 and after a couple games, pretty much get the hang of everything. It has done that already. It isn't suppose to be an exact replicate with just improved graphics. It just isn't suppose to be dramatically different. Lets say they made Dota 2 exactly like Dota 1. Then after they decided to make some balance changes in future updates. Would you argue and qq that it changed? That is exactly what they are doing now, just implementing some changes right away instead of porting the old then changing it, since that is just a waste of time. Some things aren't intended, thus people report it and they would probably end up changing it. Other things are intended, and you just gotta accept it instead of using the same argument about it being different from Dota 1 constantly.

    Leave a comment:


  • spektor
    replied
    Originally posted by Ai-nyan View Post
    DotA 2 was supposed to be almost identical, except for fixing inconveniences and bugs such as windwalk interfering with crits and bashes. IceFrog said that himself, and what we have now doesn't live up to his words, though still might get changed, but these are the things that should have been done right from the start.
    Source please. All I can find is this excerpt from initial Q&A:
    Q: Don’t you think you should make a lot of changes to the gameplay? (by Robert)
    A: Significant changes would not necessarily make it a better game. There are countless features we are building around the game that will make the experience a much better one. The gameplay itself, though, has always evolved step by step, and it will continue with that methodology. We consider this a long term project, in the same way DotA has always been. We want to provide a quality experience and not just change for the sake of change. You’ll naturally see additions and improvements to the game as time passes, but it would be a natural progression aimed at improving the game for the players and not for other arbitrary reasons. Valve and I strongly believe that the player focused development process the game has gone through is what will allow us to continue making the best decisions with regards to where we spend our development time.
    You and the likes of you are what's wrong with this community. Any little change is taken with extreme hostility. It's literally over the forums: "hurr durr we don't need dis new sheet giv us dota with new graphics" or, even more often, "derp it's from lol/hon it's bad". No weighted arguments, just plain hate for changes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Opran
    replied
    I like the new way,

    Leave a comment:


  • 541
    replied
    i agree this needs to be changed..i play Dota 2 believing it would be a port of Dota 1..
    things like this are one of the reasons why i play dota instead of hon or lol..
    the gameplay differs if these are changed

    Leave a comment:

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