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Fog of War and "Juke Spots"

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  • #16
    Dota 1 FoW only "seems" bugged. In fact ,when your enemy is in the "lighter" spot you can't really see him while in Dota 2 the "lighter" spot is really your field of vision and you can see entirely trough trees like what happens at the dire acient creep camp. I'm a little out of time now so i'll post more screenshots/video on further analysis later.
    Maverick Hunter.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DarkSuo View Post
      Dota 1 FoW only "seems" bugged. In fact ,when your enemy is in the "lighter" spot you can't really see him while in Dota 2 the "lighter" spot is really your field of vision and you can see entirely trough trees like what happens at the dire acient creep camp. I'm a little out of time now so i'll post more screenshots/video on further analysis later.
      wtf is "lighter" spot. Just post evidence as others have posted against you. Everyone already knows that the maps between dota 1 and dota 2 arent even the same and that there are next to none juke spots that dont allow people to see in or you see out.

      Also how can dota 1 FoW seemed bugged when they are making a copy of that game.

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      • #18
        I made some dota 1 pics now because i am not on the OP's side (reminder my hero is a dire hero due to line of sight overlap with radiant) and in fact OP did not show us how it is in DotA 1
        Juke spot near radiant tier 2 tower (same as DotA 2)



        juke spot radiant woods tier 2 tower big camp


        This is the point of discussion so i made some more view options below

        (well iam sry but i cant or dont know how to change the camera angle in DotA 2 but this should be enough)
        In this Picture you can see the difference to DotA and why it is different

        The picture to the left shows us there should be vision (well i really dont know why theres no vision at all) edit: this Vision issue could be related to the big tree on the left (collision/model size block)
        The picture to the right shows us the tree hug vision
        I may be wrong at this point but warcraft got some problem with the sight if you hug som tree positions with different tree heighs (granting incorrect line of sight) this is not related to DotA itself

        last but not least,

        juke spot near radiant tier 1 tower mid camp (Same as DotA 2 not metioning the tree sight thing)


        (heres a small difference because of the one tree above furion is too far to the right)
        and again a second line of sight issue due to hugging trees and getting "truesight" through the tree

        This is just a problem with warcraft you can test this by creating a own map or play something else. If you want to get rid of such things you need to place a sightblocker overthere but this will block the sight aswell if the trees getting cut down.

        Edit: as i saw above i will add some DotA 2 screens in some sec i forgot them
        Edit2: DotA 2 screens online
        Last edited by MaKacknAffe; 06-03-2013, 05:40 AM.

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        • #19
          he showed evidence how u can be seen while u are hiding and some say this is how it suppose to be !!!!!

          "if i can see the entrance of the hallway i went into, they can see me too" (oh u make me laugh)

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          • #20
            You guys are right, my humblest apologies.

            In dota 1 and Dota 2 the FoW system are similar(saving some bugs like the dire ancient creeps vision), maybe DotA's FoW is even worse than Dota 2's.
            Surprisingly, the one FoW that works "logically right" its HoN's. I played it since 2009 to the time it went Free so i might have got used to it's fog, and in my mind i tought Dota 1 fog was like that... Here's what i'm talking about:


            As you can see, in HoN you can't see between trees, creating the concept of "Juke Spot" i mentioned in OP: you can't see outside nor the enemies can see you inside.

            After all that, in MY OPINION HoN's fog of war works the better compared to the others. I'm sugesting now that Valve should take a look and, if they and the community wishes, could try to mimic HoN's FoW. Anyway, i'll limit myself to report odd vision places where we souldn't see(even in dota 1) like the ancient dire camp, i know a couple more spots were we can abuse the vision a lot.

            Thanks for your time and sorry for the incovenience, i'm just trying to make the game better by giving constructive criticism.
            Maverick Hunter.

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            • #21
              First off, you dont have the right to say "you are trying to make the game better by your suggestions" because
              those suggestions must be "good" in the first place. So its a little pretentious of you to say you can make the game
              better with your suggestions. A lot of things I see in the dev forums is stupid suggestions (not yours)
              that people throw because "THIS WAS IN LOL, IT WAS USED TO IT, IT MUST BE IN DOTA TOO" but they
              fail to even weigh the mechanical and balance implications of their suggestions.

              "RANGE INDICATOR PLEASE, BECAUSE IT WAS IN LOL"
              "QUICK CAST PLEASE, BECAUSE IT WAS IN LOL"
              and other bullshit like that.

              You just dont "buff juking" without considering the nerf to the chasers.
              If i ran past you when youre hiding into a spot, then thats good, you juked me.
              If i ran past you and saw a glimpse of your hero in the treeline then youre not hiding well enough.
              If i ran past you, you appeared for a split second in the treeline and i didnt notice, then im an idiot.

              Keep in mid that the LoL was balanced by people who either whined too much, or doesnt know what true balance is.
              Dota isnt balanced by the people, its balanced by Icefrog, who is the only person qualified to do so.
              Last edited by Ghostface; 06-04-2013, 01:14 AM.

              HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THE MATCHMAKING? MUTE SYSTEM? THINKING EVERYBODY IS INFERIOR TO YOU?
              WE HAVE THREE EASY STEPS TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR PROBLEM!


              THANK YOU FOR MAKING DOTA2 A BETTER PLACE! AND REMEMBER, THERES NO GOING BACK

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Ghostface View Post
                First off, you dont have the right to say "you are trying to make the game better by your suggestions" because
                those suggestions must be "good" in the first place. So its a little pretentious of you to say you can make the game
                better with your suggestions. A lot of things I see in the dev forums is stupid suggestions (not yours)
                that people throw because "THIS WAS IN LOL, IT WAS USED TO IT, IT MUST BE IN DOTA TOO" but they
                fail to even weigh the mechanical and balance implications of their suggestions.

                "RANGE INDICATOR PLEASE, BECAUSE IT WAS IN LOL"
                "QUICK CAST PLEASE, BECAUSE IT WAS IN LOL"
                and other bullshit like that.

                You just dont "buff juking" without considering the nerf to the chasers.
                If i ran past you when youre hiding into a spot, then thats good, you juked me.
                If i ran past you and saw a glimpse of your hero in the treeline then youre not hiding well enough.
                If i ran past you, you appeared for a split second in the treeline and i didnt notice, then im an idiot.

                Keep in mid that the LoL was balanced by people who either whined too much, or doesnt know what true balance is.
                Dota isnt balanced by the people, its balanced by Icefrog, who is the only person qualified to do so.

                Hey Mr.Troll You don't seem to get that this thread was based on a parity issue between Dota2 and Dota1 that the OP thought was inconsistent (when in fact it was consistent) This has nothing to do with buffing or nerfing chasers.
                Also Dota is balanced by the people, if something is ridiculously OP then Icefrog is notified. Otherwise every hero would be released perfectly balanced, and there would be no more need for updates. For example Drows global aura affecting all units including creeps. That was OP.

                So yeh GG Mr.troll
                Originally posted by Typhox
                Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
                Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

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                • #23
                  Sure, lets call "Aghanims Disabling buyback" a cry for balance for necrolyte,
                  im pretty sure omniknight having global angel was also a player based suggestion right?

                  There is no "fog parity of dota1 and dota2" because dota1 fog is actually worse than dota2 if you seen my screenshots.
                  How can you parity something that is intrinsically broken?

                  Counter GGd.

                  I like how making a point = automatic troll.
                  The mindset of some people.

                  As OP stated: "A Juke spot its a place between the trees that prevents vision from outside, and from inside out...it's essencial for jukers as the enemy dont know where you are going when you enter them."

                  This is what OP "WANTED", but not what actual WC3 is doing. There is no parity issue here.
                  Last edited by Ghostface; 06-04-2013, 03:16 AM.

                  HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THE MATCHMAKING? MUTE SYSTEM? THINKING EVERYBODY IS INFERIOR TO YOU?
                  WE HAVE THREE EASY STEPS TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR PROBLEM!


                  THANK YOU FOR MAKING DOTA2 A BETTER PLACE! AND REMEMBER, THERES NO GOING BACK

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Ghostface View Post

                    As OP stated: "A Juke spot its a place between the trees that prevents vision from outside, and from inside out...it's essencial for jukers as the enemy dont know where you are going when you enter them."

                    This is what OP "WANTED", but not what actual WC3 is doing. There is no parity issue here.
                    Little correction, i "wanted" because in my memory DotA's fog was like HoN's fog. I was wrong, there's nothing wrong in Dota 2 FoW.
                    And never mentioned LoL, i mention HoN.

                    Also, when i say i'm trying to make the game better by giving sugestions i'm not confirming all my sugestions are good o.O I'm just brainstorming to the best of my capacity, maybe Valve likes it or it may give another idea to a dev when he sees mine, i don't know. At least i'm doing something instead of just criticism like you, good thing you're not a dev. You may want to check my Threads history, a lot of my sugestions were implemented already.
                    Last edited by DarkSuo; 06-04-2013, 11:58 PM.
                    Maverick Hunter.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Please implement more juke spot options into the game. It makes the gameplay more dynamic and fun, makes for awesome replay highlights, and provides for clutch plays if executed properly. The fog of war being suggested by the OP is way one to go about it. Other options include changes to the trees layout to create new paths and juke spots. Dota is a great game with room for improvement. Ill be interested to see how dota 2 evolves after Valve finishes porting all dota 2 heroes.

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                      • #26
                        http://critwhale.com/DotaMap.jpg

                        Enjoy.
                        ModDota | My GitHub Profile | My Project's Page

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Noya View Post
                          Who ever made this is a genius, I need to hide in my room and closely study this map.
                          btw, i agree with OP. I think juke spot should not be able to see outside, it makes me feel like i'm naked hiding in trees. Where as if it's no visible i feel safe. If someone walk pass me and i see him makes me feel like he can see me.
                          But i think FoW of dota work as you can see outside, but outside can't see you?

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