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Current bugs and limitations

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  • Current bugs and limitations

    Limitations.

    The current auto generated tilegrid is simply not customizable enough in terms of size. Yes it is possible to generate multiple tilegrids and lining them up correctly. But that causes memory leaks and its a nightmare to work with as its not possible to displace the meshes without adding subdivisions to an already dense enough mesh. Yes you can also go through and painstakingly adjust every single vert, edge or face one by one, but with no soft selection that also seems very far fetched.

    Having to add subdivisions to meshes regardless of polycount to be able to use them as displacements
    ie. collapsing flat tiles with 64 faces each, which is more than enough if made by hand.

    Bugs

    Importing your own meshes for use as terrain causes certain faces to distort heavily when moving the camera around. (disregard fog, it happens with or without)
    27a3b2a79a.jpg da0dba7252.jpg

    Custom models causing tools to hang when browsing model assets. I'm not sure what causes this bug, but removing my custom models fixed the issue. The models in question was very simple untextured meshes with no more than a few thousand faces max.

    Memory leaks working with "high" poly meshes (1 million faces)
    Loading up this map, which is made from collapsing 4½ full tilegrids and lining them up.
    752bf11dc2.jpg

    Uses up this much memory, which in itself is fine.
    de97a73348.png

    But the moment i decide to alter the map in anyway, memory use starts climing until the inevitable crash to desktop.
    b1e674b774.png

  • #2
    Hey Aleteh.

    Concerning the tile grid terrain generation; if you truly want customizable terrain, you're ultimately going to have to make it yourself. That, or wait until the dev team rolls out a feature to allow us to smoothly displace tiles without collapsing them (this has been noted recently as something they'd be working on as a feature for displacements for a future update). Another alternative is to create your meshes elsewhere (ie. such as in Max, Maya, or Blender, or Modo) and then import them into your addon. I've had a similar experience with the displacements in my current map, which has undoubtedly taken some of my time away from completing it (but thankfully I have also learned a few things!).

    Now, for the face bug; this seems to be an issue more related to your graphics card than Hammer. You may want to update your drivers and see if that fixes that issue. I have a few exceptionally strange looking terrain pieces that do not produce this issue.

    As for memory leaks, they will happen. The current state of the *ahem* alpha tools is not as ideally optimized as one might want them to be. Still, it runs exceptionally well for a tool that does pretty much everything Hammer did *AND MORE* while still being a work in progress! Also, 1 million faces is quite a lot for a map. Source (of all versions) seems to be notorious for being picky about how much it can render or process at a time. Not sure how much has changed for Source 2, but it seems to handle resources a lot better. You shouldn't really ever run into such a problem unless you're doing something unintended. You're likely better off re-creating your terrain with a lower-polygon, more optimized set of meshes (like I have done). I know, it's convenient to use tiles as a template, I've been down that road! It's not worth the hassle until additional support for tile grid displacement comes.

    Edit: One last thing I forgot to mention is that you should stick to the default grid size. Anything outside of the default grid does not render correctly through fog (ie. fog is not calculated properly). This is due probably to a limitation set by the devs, for one reason or another (perhaps a hard-coded limitation for optimization purposes?). So, unless you plan to have the map play without fog, it's detrimental to have it at such a size (at least, until the devs do something about the limitations).
    Last edited by Toyoka; 11-07-2014, 11:39 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Toyoka View Post
      Hey Aleteh.

      Concerning the tile grid terrain generation; if you truly want customizable terrain, you're ultimately going to have to make it yourself. That, or wait until the dev team rolls out a feature to allow us to smoothly displace tiles without collapsing them (this has been noted recently as something they'd be working on as a feature for displacements for a future update). Another alternative is to create your meshes elsewhere (ie. such as in Max, Maya, or Blender, or Modo) and then import them into your addon. I've had a similar experience with the displacements in my current map, which has undoubtedly taken some of my time away from completing it (but thankfully I have also learned a few things!).

      Now, for the face bug; this seems to be an issue more related to your graphics card than Hammer. You may want to update your drivers and see if that fixes that issue. I have a few exceptionally strange looking terrain pieces that do not produce this issue.
      Making my own terrain in Maya is not a problem, the flickering textures is. Which isn't a driver issue as i've tried 3 different version so far. Besides, being able to quickly generate a basic terrain mesh with the tilegrid is without a doubt superior as its easier to do quick revisions. I will say that its nice to hear that being able to displace tiles is a feature they are looking at.

      Originally posted by Toyoka View Post
      As for memory leaks, they will happen. The current state of the *ahem* alpha tools is not as ideally optimized as one might want them to be. Still, it runs exceptionally well for a tool that does pretty much everything Hammer did *AND MORE* while still being a work in progress! Also, 1 million faces is quite a lot for a map. Source (of all versions) seems to be notorious for being picky about how much it can render or process at a time. Not sure how much has changed for Source 2, but it seems to handle resources a lot better. You shouldn't really ever run into such a problem unless you're doing something unintended. You're likely better off re-creating your terrain with a lower-polygon, more optimized set of meshes (like I have done). I know, it's convenient to use tiles as a template, I've been down that road! It's not worth the hassle until additional support for tile grid displacement comes.

      Edit: One last thing I forgot to mention is that you should stick to the default grid size. Anything outside of the default grid does not render correctly through fog (ie. fog is not calculated properly). This is due probably to a limitation set by the devs, for one reason or another (perhaps a hard-coded limitation for optimization purposes?). So, unless you plan to have the map play without fog, it's detrimental to have it at such a size (at least, until the devs do something about the limitations).
      I am aware that it's an alpha version of the tools and that memory leaks will be present. Thats why I'm making this thread documenting what im trying to do so that MAYBE it will get fixed. Not saying anything wouldn't get half of the things fixed.

      I'm also aware of the fog limit, and addressing that in this thread would be beating a dead horse, as its been mentioned a thousand times already

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Aleteh View Post
        Making my own terrain in Maya is not a problem, the flickering textures is. Which isn't a driver issue as i've tried 3 different version so far. Besides, being able to quickly generate a basic terrain mesh with the tilegrid is without a doubt superior as its easier to do quick revisions. I will say that its nice to hear that being able to displace tiles is a feature they are looking at.



        I am aware that it's an alpha version of the tools and that memory leaks will be present. Thats why I'm making this thread documenting what im trying to do so that MAYBE it will get fixed. Not saying anything wouldn't get half of the things fixed.

        I'm also aware of the fog limit, and addressing that in this thread would be beating a dead horse, as its been mentioned a thousand times already
        Fair enough! We are in the same boat then

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Toyoka View Post
          Fair enough! We are in the same boat then
          here's to hoping the next update isn't going to be just a small typo fix

          Comment


          • #6
            The flickering textures you reported is in fact a bug related to materials using the 'Worldspace UVs' feature that generates uv texture coordinates automatically. This bug should be fixed in the next update, but until then you should be able to work around the problem by using a material that doesn't use this feature (assuming you have authored UV coordinates for your models). If needed you could just make a copy of the existing material and disable the feature. However, you will want to re-name the copy, otherwise you will override all uses of the material which will break the texturing on tiles using the material.

            Capture.PNG

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by karlw View Post
              The flickering textures you reported is in fact a bug related to materials using the 'Worldspace UVs' feature that generates uv texture coordinates automatically. This bug should be fixed in the next update, but until then you should be able to work around the problem by using a material that doesn't use this feature (assuming you have authored UV coordinates for your models). If needed you could just make a copy of the existing material and disable the feature. However, you will want to re-name the copy, otherwise you will override all uses of the material which will break the texturing on tiles using the material.

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]27878[/ATTACH]
              Well ill be damned, thanks for the heads up! Time to work on some terrain.

              Comment

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