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Suggestions: Profile page - better stats needed

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  • Suggestions: Profile page - better stats needed

    Know your role
    I'd like it if we could get some stats that better illustrate player performance PER ROLE. A long time ago when people were discussing how the player profile could be improved in Dota 2 (some of which got added to Reborn, but not all), the biggest request was that a player's favoured roles were represented well in all the stats shown on the player profile page. This means assessing the role a player is playing every match (or allowing the player to choose every stat). It requires a little math but last year I spent some time looking in detail at game stats and I believe it's entirely possible to make a accurate prediction of what role a player is playing based on simple game information. Using this you can collect stats individually per role, (1-5 or carry/mid/utility/support)

    For example, I'm essentially a career support or utility. Things like rampages matter very little to me. I have probably actually had less than 20 rampages in 3000 or so games because I play support 8/10 times, and when I do carry I don't rampage, I play consistently and rarely spectacularly. So it sort of bothers me that things like rampages and kill-centric things are all that are being shown up on the profile page, without any context. This kind of works to counteract all the great work that is being done to talk about Dota in complex, interesting ways (at the pro level or any level). It shouldn't just be a game about kills and deaths. It's not a moba.

    For example, if you're going to show a stat like 'total rampages' you need to display it as 'rampages PER role', or contextualise it like 'x total rampages (y carry games)'.

    If I am carry player by nature, cool, let me show off my average kills per game. Let me flash how many rampages I've got. It means something to carry player.
    On the other hand as a support I care more about average (median) assists, game participation or XPM vs the average player in the game.

    Visual data is cool, but context is king
    On the player profile we get a stat polygon. Okay, this is a step forward. These are always kind of nebulous but visual representations of data are cool and they can be useful when tuned. But what do the categories mean? The trouble here is that a) we don't know what data goes into each point on the graph (support point says 'players that support each other with healing, wards, and items') b) Unless Reborn has changed things dramatically, Dota doesn't collect enough stats from games to talk about roles. For example, no, average camps stacked doesn't really tell us anything. Perhaps I play heroes that don't babysit lanes, and I'd have a terrible looking camp stacking stat. Even if I stacked an average of 3 camps per game (that would be quite impressive if you play many roles)... that's a kind of nebulous data point. It might make me a good support IF every camp was stacked for my farming carry, but it would make me a great farming player if I was stacking camps for myself in the jungle. Without the context of hero role in those games its not useful.

    As for 'players that support each other with healing, wards, and items'. I'm guessing that this is just counting wards placed, couriers bought, and total healing. That sort of thing. This is such a gross over simplification of what supporting is that it really pains me that this is the best that Valve can do for this stat. I don't consider myself a good support if that's all I do in a game. Hell - most supports don't even heal allies, and plenty of non-supports heal allies, so that's pretty ridiculous to even consider that a supportative quality. It's the same line of thinking that has every support hero in your game either heal or give mana (hello HotS, League, Smite...).

    Also, my fighting stat is .37, when I know having collected all my match data that my average battle participation is well over 50%...

    I encourage Valve to consider parsing game replays in more detail after the games in order to amass better data for better stats. Eg, Dotabuff does some good parsing of replays but they don't really use the data to make good statistics, it's more for general viewing. I'd love to see a good visual representation of real data in Dota.

    Here are the kind of general stats that are massively more revealing for all players:

    KAD: (Kills+Assists)/Deaths
    For each hero life, how much did you contribute in terms of either assisting or getting a kill. This is one of the most useful stats in Dota but people get hung up on KD and don't remember that assists are more useful to the team than kills for 95% of heroes in the game. Let's have this on the profile. This is a stat that is useful for all roles and doesn't make supports feel bad because they don't get rampages every game.

    Battle Participation: (your kills+your assists)/team K
    This is a great stat for anyone who is really focused on improving their play, but of course, context is everything in stats, not every hero can achieve the same type of contributions, but overall, a player should look to achieve a high % of contribution overall. As a support I like to be a part of at least 60%+ of total team kills or assists every game. You can do similar things with total Team XP. How much did you contribute to battles in this game of Dota? Overall very useful stat, and useful as a median across all heroes.

    XPM versus average XPM of other players in the match (alternatively, versus average of all players including you, which is a slightly different stat)
    This is a very useful thing to look at after a game. Were you obtaining more or less of this resource than the average player in this game? Doesn't really matter what role you were playing, because very often you can play support and obtain as high an XPM because your battle participation will be higher than many (excepting extremely prolific ganking heroes who tend to dominate those stats). Generally if you win a game of Dota you'll have a higher XPM than the average. Across all your games, you want to try and maintain this above average XPM, regardless of role.

    Here are some stats that need to be contextualised per role:
    XPM vs average Team XP (median per role)
    KDA vs average Team KDA (median per role)
    KDA vs average Enemy KDA (median per role)

    A carry player will on average achieve a higher factor for these stats, but they are highly useful if looked at within the context of each role played. Again, this requires calculating player role per game otherwise the stats taken out of context and generalised for all heroes are a bit superficial.

    And of course, the thing to note with a player profile is that customisation is great. I like the ability for players to pick a few stats that appear in the top bar. If people care about their MMR they can show it off now, or if they don't care about any of those stats they can show nothing. That's cool. I'd like to see the same done for the player performance panel. Given the option I'd probably just show absolutely every stat that was generally useful, but some people might just consider themselves eg career carries, and only want to show off average kills or K/D.
    Last edited by cinephile; 09-09-2015, 06:30 PM.
    "It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead."
    Io, the Guardian Wisp

  • #2
    I agree with you


    • #3
      yes well written. and the playstyle section of the profile page still doesnt' work


      • #4
        Great idea~