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Ideas for a better competetive matchmaking

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  • Ideas for a better competetive matchmaking

    Hello,

    this thread is only about the best 2% of the DotA-Community.

    Before I went to make this thread I noticed a lot of angry and also a few happy customers in this forum. It is my agenda to speak for the many hardcore players, playing matchmaking to have a break from their scrims, or to get in a team and start to really play competitive.

    I speak for all these players, playing this game because of his competitive nature. We don't play because of our hero looks so shiny now. We don't play because of his impressive graphic engine.
    We play this game to improve the slightest, creating new strategies, have good games, win and make some money with it. That are the reasons we play.

    Back in Dota 1 everything was new. There was no big company sitting behind the game. There was no flowing money into the developers bank. People themselves had to think of basics making this game more enjoyable as it already was.

    Dota-league.com is one of my many examples. It was run by the fans of the game itself. In Dota 1 was no ranking system so it was hard to see, which player should play with witch player. Dota-league.com was able to deliver data in form of a win/lose ratio. People were finally able to see, which player they can be happy about having in their team and which player you should give some bonus advice. In addition to the visible % of your game history, people got asked to play for teams. In the VIP-lounge - I remember - I got asked several times to stack and play some scrims together. I got even asked by already existing teams to play as a standin in their next official match. Hardcore players were able to find teams fitting for them due to a good matchmaking system, getting people on a high or lower level together. Players who wanted to become part of this "VIP-Lounge" had to prove themselves in the "normal" Single-instant-game league. And people did. Competitive feeling was all over the place and people liked it. Matches were great and Dota-league.com had a great success.


    What else did we have there?

    A live-support. Players were able to report games after someone did flame, feed on purpose or left the game on purpose. Non-paid organizers checked these cases and did a very good job with it. Giving a message why you got banned, how long and gave you penalty points for higher punishment in case of a repeat. I got myself punishments and never was unsatisfied with the "referees" decision. I was able to talk to him via a message system to check my case again when I felt mistreated. There was no communication ban and nobody ever asked for it (maybe because it was not possible, yeah, but issues were discussed and solved on a better way). Don't want to bring up the communication ban system in here - but it's simply impossible to forbid voice in a team-based game. Face it.

    So why does a fan-based system without any or very less payment (costs for running the website) manage it to provide a live-support and a great matchmaking but a fast growing company isn't able to do it for bling-bling buying customers?


    Ranking system:


    At some point people just want to know were they stand. When dotabuff.com delivered there actually very precise Ranking system and privat visible ELO-rating i was so goddamn happy. My whole friendlist of 100 players were happy about it. We told which rating we have and we all didn't really complain about it. We did accept the ranking given to us and knew it is very precise. Of course it is not 100% correct - but you were able to see in which skill-bracket your are actually in. Also I know it is possible to "manipulate" your ranking by stacking with other players ala HoliCmore or Jaffa Calling. But these are rare cases and those players (apart from Jaffa Calling, who should get punished btw) just show that a ranking system would increase the competitive gaming a lot. And what does DotA make shine at the very end? Competitive DotA. People watch it. People pay for it. People can't get enough of it.

    Don’t get me wrong! I totally understand Valve's decision about making the ranking not visible to the whole community. It has negative side effects. But keeping it private... not visible to other players... what’s the fucking deal with that? Also an option to make it visible for others set on "no" by default. Everyone makes his own decision and everyone is happy.


    Matchmaking

    I think Valve knows themselves that the upper bracket is totally broken since last patch. Fletcher already wrote something about it. We ( Top 1%) don't want to play with people from lower brackets. We only want to play against other people in our bracket. When I stack with someone below my skill make me suffer for it and match me with players on my skill - I don't care. But I don't want a) players in my team who don't know how to play a 5-4-3-2-1 setup or b) players in the enemy team feeding me. Last 4 days I only had games which I either lose because I support players buying for example naked mom on sven. Or I win with a end score of 30-5-10. Both types of games are not fun to me at all.

    I remember a post from Fletcher were he told the Elo-rating of the players in a game. the widest gap between the best player and the fifth-best player in a team was 634 Elo-Rating, when the best one had around 4100. In addition to that, the player with the lowest rating had 700 games less played then the best of his team.
    That is a 15% skill and a 50% experience difference. That is a lot. That is too much.

    Why? Because the lowest player in this team doesn’t KNOW that he is the one with the lowest skill. He thinks: "screw it now I'm in mood to play Shadow fiend mid!"
    Oh Snap! He plays against the player with the highest rating in the enemy team, which went also mid. He gets first blooded, he loses chicken, he dies again, he leaves. Game over.

    This is not a rare case. This happens a lot. So what to do? 2 Options:

    1. Make the ELO-rating visible, which will lower players more likely make listen to players with a higher ELO-rating.
    2. Don't mix the skill with such a wide gap and let the luck decide how good a game becomes.

    And another point I want to ask for:

    Make a player decide which role he wants to play before a game starts. Like he has to decide on which server he wants to play. I don’t want to say this will solve any problems. Maybe it is not possible to do that because of negative side effects. But I can only imagine some new features and improvements:

    -> Better games! You have 2 supporter so you will probably always have a chicken and wards. You have 1 or 2 carrys and a good hero for the midlane.
    And that on both sides of the teams. Can help to improve the enjoyment of the games.

    -> More precise ELO-rating. You can separate it into 3 or w/e different ones. People who always play mid should have another algorithm then players who always play support. Maybe I am a better supporter then a mid player. But I like to play mid to improve me? Now i know which skill I have with both roles.


    The biggest side effect i could imagine are the waiting times for the more likely played roles (mid, carry). But hey! When I know that when i play I have 2 players i can rely on to support me. I am willing to wait 15 minutes to play my anti mage.

    (This would be very experimental and should be a bonus option like the compendium match at the beginning, but I think its an idea to work with!)


    Greetings
    Flyinarrow-

    tl,dr: Get some sort of ranking system, make matchmaking absolutely based on elo-rating, live-support
    Last edited by Flyinarrow-; 07-25-2013, 06:48 PM.

  • #2
    I think Valve is too obsessed with catering to casuals and e-sports fans and making money off them in Dota 2 then actually designing a good competitive game, which is a dissapointment really.

    Trying to derive from a norm every other competitive game has set so far is just bad design. I've noticed players are increasingly intolerant and agressive towards each other for even the smallest thing and I'm sure the fact they never get feedback on anything is one of the bigger reasons.

    We're not retards, the top 2% is especially not. The people who are retards get filtered out automatically. If you want to improve new player experiences so much work on that tutorial more, that if anything will ease the intro to Dota 2 much more. Integrate multiplayer into it and design mechanics to compensate for smurfs.
    Retards and resident forum trolls use my signature ad hominem against me so have this instead.


    Do yourself a favor and add resident troll Noo to your ignore list.

    Comment


    • #3
      lol theres a matchmaking?

      actually valve doesnt give a damn fuck about "competetive shit in pub games"
      nuff said.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by StepOnLego View Post
        Trying to derive from a norm every other competitive game has set so far is just bad design. I've noticed players are increasingly intolerant and agressive towards each other for even the smallest thing and I'm sure the fact they never get feedback on anything is one of the bigger reasons.
        Thank you!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Zachriel View Post
          lol theres a matchmaking?

          actually valve doesnt give a damn fuck about "competetive shit in pub games"
          nuff said.
          Well they should, even tho we only are 1-2 % of the community. We probably have more games played and time spent then 50% of casuals

          Comment

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