New Meta!

[Rixardo]

i like how people use unreliable things to complain about matchmaking, and i keep loling everything a player think he is good because of wins

[Propkid]

Deep psychological sub-conscious talk from Craig on topic of reports...

@OP
I do realize that a dagon AA not doing any supporting is pretty dumb etc etc. But hey, let's look at other things which just made me hate you as a player. You listed WR as a possible support hero. Yeah, WR can support, but so can eg. QoP and the effects would be similar at the non-competitive level of games. Also hey, ever thought that the idea of a slightly squishy INT caster hero with no native right click potential whatsoever taking up all of the team's farm with his ult, afk farming all game, wasting his skillset's potential for global ganks and trying to hard carry is slightly fking retarded? No? Well then start playing NP as a supporting ganker as you should and WARD/be present during ganks.

[ThreeDonkeys]

I seem to be playing support when there are one or two other supports and I'm forced to be the only one buying support items. Volvo please.

[cuuri]

New players need to be thrown together in the cesspool where they belong, only those that crawl out by sheer skill after at least 400 games played should be allowed into actual matchmaking.

[Craig]

My point is that the punishment is not a direct response to being a team player or not. It has to do with a value. No amount of reporting will prevent bad team players from playing dota. That does not correct the behavior and is not punishment, or if it is considered punishment, then it's not the type of punishment that provides results/change in a person's attitude. Whatever the reason X player got reported for, s/he is likely to be a repeat offender unless the player is aware of his actions and understands the consequences.

The report system isn't what I call "punishment" for such behavior. The may never even reach LPQ for all I know. The person may go on for 50+ games of playing support and may never ward or participate in team fights without seeing LPQ. Who knows. I believe you have indeed missed my point here.

2 things will happen:

1) They will be blamed for the losses and reported. If they do it often enough and players report for it enough, they will get chat-banned or LPQ.

2) They will lose more games than they win until they reach a rank where their standard of play is viable. At this stage teammates may even stop reporting, because they don't recognise or care about their approach.

Players get the message. We almost always know why we've been reported, even if we disagree with it.

I'm not arguing that either of these systems achieve those ends optimally or even particularly fast, just that they do regulate this type of behaviour.

If you're of average skill level, you could easily end up matched with split-personality players. Players that are great in half of their matches and troll in the other half. Playing some of their matches way above their skill level and throwing others.

Or perhaps you meet them because you do the same, without realising it. Maybe you throw in a way you don't recognise yet, but you can spot another player throwing. Perhaps they don't realise they're doing it either.

[mibuwolf]

I'm not missing your point.

My point is that the punishment is not a direct response to being a team player or not. It has to do with a value. No amount of reporting will prevent bad team players from playing dota. That does not correct the behavior and is not punishment, or if it is considered punishment, then it's not the type of punishment that provides results/change in a person's attitude. Whatever the reason X player got reported for, s/he is likely to be a repeat offender unless the player is aware of his actions and understands the consequences.

The report system isn't what I call "punishment" for such behavior. The may never even reach LPQ for all I know. The person may go on for 50+ games of playing support and may never ward or participate in team fights without seeing LPQ. Who knows. I believe you have indeed missed my point here.

[Craig]

Like I already said. No, there isn't. You are missing my point.

I'm not missing your point. You said there is no punishment for not being a team player. I'm telling you that anything can be punished. Literally anything.

That is what we mean by:

"the community owns the definition of abuse".

[mibuwolf]

Like I already said. Yes there is!

"The community owns the definition of abuse"

Report them for whatever you like. If they get enough reports, they will be punished.

Like I already said. No, there isn't. You are missing my point.

[Craig]

I'm confused. I didn't mention anything about abuse. AA wasn't being abusive at all; just a dick team player.

...and by team player, I meant doing what is necessary to win the game 'as a team'. There is no punishment for that, but this AA who won't buy wards & acts like a jerk? Sure... report the dude and hopefully he is sent to LPQ, but even if that happens I bet he will continue with the bad attitude long after the LPQ punishment disappears.

I'm beginning to ramble a bit, but the point is: There's no punishment for not being a team player. Not buying tp scrolls to help in team fights. Not buying wards. Farming in lane/jungle when team has decided to push and needs your support. Those are all things I wouldn't report someone for, but is hurting the team and is not likely to be punished for such actions. What can you do about those people?

Like I already said. Yes there is!

"The community owns the definition of abuse"

Report them for whatever you like. If they get enough reports, they will be punished.

[katsaroulhs]

I'm confused. I didn't mention anything about abuse. AA wasn't being abusive at all; just a dick team player.

...and by team player, I meant doing what is necessary to win the game 'as a team'. There is no punishment for that, but this AA who won't buy wards & acts like a jerk? Sure... report the dude and hopefully he is sent to LPQ, but even if that happens I bet he will continue with the bad attitude long after the LPQ punishment disappears.

I'm beginning to ramble a bit, but the point is: There's no punishment for not being a team player. Not buying tp scrolls to help in team fights. Not buying wards. Farming in lane/jungle when team has decided to push and needs your support. Those are all things I wouldn't report someone for, but is hurting the team and is not likely to be punished for such actions. What can you do about those people?

Not bying wards and courier with AA, especially if he is the only support, is considered abusive by the community. Now you would say "hey it was only a pub" and you would be right. Still, everyone hates supports that don't buy courier, wards, steal farm and kills ( on purpose of course ), and they are bound to be reported at some point, and get thrown to LPQ, or get muted.

[mibuwolf]

Sure there is.

The community "own the definition of abuse", so acting like a dick is reported and punished. That is the big benefit of the report system, but let's not derail this thread into a discussion about the problems with it.

I'm confused. I didn't mention anything about abuse. AA wasn't being abusive at all; just a dick team player.

...and by team player, I meant doing what is necessary to win the game 'as a team'. There is no punishment for that, but this AA who won't buy wards & acts like a jerk? Sure... report the dude and hopefully he is sent to LPQ, but even if that happens I bet he will continue with the bad attitude long after the LPQ punishment disappears.

I'm beginning to ramble a bit, but the point is: There's no punishment for not being a team player. Not buying tp scrolls to help in team fights. Not buying wards. Farming in lane/jungle when team has decided to push and needs your support. Those are all things I wouldn't report someone for, but is hurting the team and is not likely to be punished for such actions. What can you do about those people?

[Craig]

I think many players know to buy wards, but to be honest there's a lot of people who just do what they want. There's no punishment for not being a team player. If you have 1 or 2 people that have the "idgaf" attitude, then you've more than likely already lost the game.

Matchmaking can't fix that. Maybe the reporting system could, if the player had a poor attitude on a consistent basis and was reported for such actions, but definitely not matchmaking's fault.

Sure there is.

The community "own the definition of abuse", so acting like a dick is reported and punished. That is the big benefit of the report system, but let's not derail this thread into a discussion about the problems with it.

[GewoonDaan]

So i just had a bad game which we lost (ofcourse) and i can safely blame the Valve on this One.

This game was going on fine except having a support hero in our team not playing as support. This was kinda unusual as prior to this matchmaking system everyone who picked support at least had the basic knowledge that they are supposed to buy wards and couriers. Since no one bought a courier(wr,aa) therefore i had to buy the courier(np). I was fine with that too as NP = Money. But the aa started to piss me off, and not surprisingly it continued for whole game. First he unpaused the game when our wr dc. Since wr was mid she lost like 4 minute farm. After that even begging the aa to please buy wards he just wouldn't respond. He kept farming for like 15-20mins. Then After he bought Dagon this was the chatlog:
me: please buy some wards.
aa: no gold lol.
aa: and why? only i am supposed to buy them?
me: yes,you are the support right? And in this game supports buy wards and upgrades courier.
aa: lol,did you make this game?
me:yes
aa: reported.

After evidently throwing the game he started flaming everyone in our team. And in the end he replied and i quote "Wins doesn't even matter now".
And all the people who cry "OMG Dota Community sucks" and don't even want to listen to your team. You can go fuckyourself. TY

And Also to Valve Nice job giving trolls another reason to play this game.
I am going to create a new thread for every retarded game your MM System throws at me.

Was this your first game of Dota or sth? Sounds like your average childish as fuck manchild to me.

[Ghostface]

I think many players know to buy wards, but to be honest there's a lot of people who just do what they want. There's no punishment for not being a team player. If you have 1 or 2 people that have the "idgaf" attitude, then you've more than likely already lost the game.

Matchmaking can't fix that. Maybe the reporting system could, if the player had a poor attitude on a consistent basis and was reported for such actions, but definitely not matchmaking's fault.

EEEEEEEEEeeeexactly.

[mibuwolf]

Because the MM system is responsible for teaching people to buy wards right?... right?


And also, match ID pls

I think many players know to buy wards, but to be honest there's a lot of people who just do what they want. There's no punishment for not being a team player. If you have 1 or 2 people that have the "idgaf" attitude, then you've more than likely already lost the game.

Matchmaking can't fix that. Maybe the reporting system could, if the player had a poor attitude on a consistent basis and was reported for such actions, but definitely not matchmaking's fault.