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Solo MMR Idea

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  • Solo MMR Idea

    Probably not new.
    It's simply:

    1. Reveal MMR for all players (can be to themselves only, or to everyone).
    2. Players have to select for themselves what MMR range they want to queue into. (Can be as specific as actual numbers you type in, or something like greater, less than, or similar to [My MMR].)

    In most cases, MMR gain/loss would be as normal, you gain if you win, you drop if you lose. Gain more if you beat a higher rated team, lose more if you lose to a lower rated team along with its inverse, Gain less if you beat lower rated team, lose less if you lose to higher rated team. (Let’s say from minimum of +-2 point to maximum of +-50)

    Now let’s see how this option will affect the players.

    A new player just got the game, sees his MMR is low (let’s say 1500 is start), knows he’s new to the game, he’d hit queue and be matched with other low MMR people and will probably be content knowing everyone else is probably new to the game and similar level to himself. If he chooses to queue a higher MMR than he already is (say ~1800), he’d know he might be biting more than he can chew here and his team might not be too happy with his performance or simply his presence. Can he blame his team for that? Can he get angry at other people for his lone decision on coming here and play at a level he’s not ready for? Any rational being would be aware that he’s the liability in the team. If things go bad he’d better shut his mouth, take the berating/insults, and learn as much as he can while he can (the path of DotA 1), or go back to queueing a lower mmr until he manages play enough games to raise his way up here.

    Now the super vets with 2.7k MMR (WoW Gladiator range) if you find that your queue time is too long for your liking because not a lot of people are that high, you can/have to choose to queue into lower MMR pool (~2000 range?) At the benefit of having weaker opponents but also the risk of having crap teammates not up the standard you're probably used to. Not to mention if you lose the game, you'll lose quite a lot of your precious MMR to bunch of sub 2k scrubs. Who can you blame? Your teammates for not being 2.7k like you? Let’s not forget it’s you who chose to queue into 2k range, you knew the risk. Blame Valve for queue time? Well not much they can do about player skill level, especially at certain hours. In the end the only person he can rage at is himself (if anything for being too damn good, which really amounts to nothing.) If he wins then he’ll gain a minimum amount of MMR.

    But what about smurfs? What if Mr. 2.7k decides he doesn’t want to risk his high MMR main, rather he can just make a new account and play the 1500s from scratch. Well he could, and he’ll stomp like what we already see in our current system. If he continues to win, he’ll rise in MMR and soon he’ll be forced to always select to queue “lower than my MMR” option (or manually type in 1500). And since this is a smurf account, he doesn’t care if he loses...which can be applied to every other smurfs happen to be online at the time. And the lower level bracket could very well be turned into smurf wars with new players being caught in the crossfire. Fortunately it’s not a hard problem to solve, the system can simply pit as many as those who always queue lower MMR than themselves into the same game and let them duke it out for +-2 points.

    As for “those” players whose MMR isn’t high, but always claim to be higher than he actually is, he’d of course always queue higher, and if he continuously to win, then hey, maybe his claim is correct and he deserves the MMR boost. If he constantly loses, well if MMR is public, he’d be the lowest on the team for all to see, he’d just be embarrassing himself at this point.

    I think this would solve the “social” issue of matchmaking we have now. Before we have players getting angry at their teammates (who in no fault of their own - chose which game they’d get into) and blames Valve’s MMR Machine for randomly putting trash player on your team to make you lose. Here we would instead turn that “randomness” into players’ own conscious decision for his presence or incompetence. Hate the fact that some 1.8k got into your 2k game? In our current system, you’d yell at him, and he yells back because nobody knows their MMR or chose to be here to take crap from others. Both end up complaining on the Dev board about MM being broken. With this new system, you’d also have the choice to join 2.2k games, now you may or may not wish to do it, and you have your reasons (don’t want to get owned/yelled at by people higher rated than you.) So why can’t the same mentality spread with other people?

    Which leads us to the last, and hardest problem: the “trolls”. Those who are bad, knows they are bad, but don’t care and will queue higher MMR games just to ruin other people’s fun. I can’t think of any good penalty for that other than adjusted MMR gain/loss that has to do with Personal MMR vs Team Average vs Opponent Average. I have the math figured out in my head but in the end it’s still a band-aid fix that merely treats the symptom but not the cause.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Lightbrand View Post
    adjusted MMR gain/loss that has to do with Personal MMR vs Team Average vs Opponent Average
    Point 1. That's how all Elo adaptations to team games work already.

    Point 2. Dota 2 is matchmaking centric game, which means players have absolutely no say in choosing opponents. Any matchmaking system depends on enforcing that clause.

    Point 3. Nobody wants to be limited by abstract numbers when they invite friends in their parties. Hence Valve will forever hide any numbers from people too casual for TMM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Isn't the problem with MM right now people complaining that system isn't putting the right people in the right team? So if we're not allowed to choose, we're reliant on machine "judgement" which in itself raises the conspiracy that "Valve put people worse than you when you are on a winning streak to make your win/lose ~50%.)

      All of such claim we have no solid evidence over because MMR isn't visible and it's speculative your words vs theirs. With MMR visible AND the choosing to be up to the player itself, people can no longer blame Valve's MM doing bad match ups, they can only blame the playerbase itself for their decisions in where they end up, and when it comes to players behavior, the community can have better influence over Valve's 0s and 1s.

      Do we want to get mad at a system that's an enigma with everything in the shadow or get mad at bad human decision made by people in a completely transparent system?

      Old system: Newbie shows up in your VH game it's because the system put him there (he may not wanted to be there, he's a victim as much as you are and you're yelling at him.) You post here asking Devs why it happens? Why is MM Broken?
      New system: Newbie shows up in your VH, he CHOSE to be there, you can ask him directly WHY he chose to do 2.2k when he's 1.5k? You can ask him to not do it because it's not fun experience for anybody. The only part you can blame Valve is for putting out such option, but then again this option is open to you as well if you think you can take on higher MMRs and boost yourself.


      [EDIT]
      This is for Solo Matchmaking only, if you want to choose your team, then you shouldn't be allowed to choose who you face. So if you're 2.2k bringing a 1.5k friend with you then it'll still be the old system of queuing into others who didn't opt for Solo MM.
      Last edited by Lightbrand; 09-05-2013, 05:03 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Almost nobody plays in Solo matchmaking. Valve wants to sweep it under the rug for some reason too. Apparently, solo queue is not compatible with playerbase.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Two Treads View Post
          Almost nobody plays in Solo matchmaking. Valve wants to sweep it under the rug for some reason too. Apparently, solo queue is not compatible with playerbase.
          actually people are qued into it by default after that change.

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