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Fountain Camping - Suggestion

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  • Fountain Camping - Suggestion

    Intro
    Surrendering is clearly hot potato in the community right now, it is a shame that the official place to discuss these issues has draconian measures to prevent it's discussion. It will sadden me should the development community and the developers themselves believe "griefing" is part of the game. I recently posted a topic regarding surrender - a topic that has been done to death, but it is not surrender that is my primary concern - the whole reason for wishing for surrender is to prevent something that has plagued me since discovering Dota 2. Fountain Camping.


    What is Fountain Camping?
    Fountain Camping is when the enemy team kills yours over and over in the fountain, waiting for you to respawn instead of pushing and ending the game.
    Fountain Camping for me is something that happens very commonly, and I only play solo ranked (Currently moving slowly up from 3200). Not only is this making ranked MMR painfully slow to increase, it is also making the game lose it's glamour, and re-playability.

    Why do you care so much?
    I think it's obvious by my willingness to search for a solution that everyone can agree on that this is a big issue for the enjoyment of my game. Dota 2 is my mainstay game, without it I probably wouldn't follow gaming at all, save for SC2 because of my connections to the pro scene - connections which are local and tangible and thus irrevocable. It is therefore in my interests to seek out what I consider improvements and hope that where people do not agree I can find a harmonious resolution. I do not see fountain camping as in the spirit of the game, I find it to be unsportsmanlike and tedious.

    The Suggestion
    Surrender is, forcibly, not an option. My suggestion instead is that deaths within the fountain deal direct pure damage to your ancient edit: After a few responses it is clear that dealing immediate damage is considered too powerful an effect - despite how "legitimate" the fountain kill may be - prizing too much from too little. Alternatively, the damage can be when a certain number of kills are made - or a certain number of kills in a specific time period - in order to recognise camping. ~Sol regardless of towers destroyed. This type of death would be avoided at all costs, clearly combating the issue of fountain camping for both teams.

    Conclusion, TL;DR
    Deaths in the fountain incur a stacking penalty of health to the ancient that leads to its destruction.
    • Would this combat fountain camping?
    • Would this make games more enjoyable?
    • Is fountain camping an issue to you?
    • Any other suggestions?


    76
    Yes
    42.11%
    32
    No
    57.89%
    44
    Last edited by Sol; 02-01-2014, 07:09 AM. Reason: For continued discussion

  • #2
    I thought you meant if someone is dumb enough to die in enemy fountain, they should lose health on their own building. I think that is a better idea.
    I will mercilessly add to my ignore list anyone that makes an incredibly annoying signature.

    Comment


    • #3
      Lol this seems a little extreme but I'm always supportive of the anti- camp movement!
      Originally posted by Kryil-
      Shut up Shmendrich. Seriously...

      Comment


      • #4
        I think it's important that a solution is found not only for the long term health of the game but also my sanity. I will certainly post it elsewhere if the suggestion is approved by the community here - but I am glad you like it

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sol View Post
          I think it's important that a solution is found not only for the long term health of the game but also my sanity. I will certainly post it elsewhere if the suggestion is approved by the community here - but I am glad you like it
          just for reference btw *click*
          Originally posted by Kryil-
          Shut up Shmendrich. Seriously...

          Comment


          • #6
            Ahh I am glad to see I am not the only one who finds it such a limit to gameplay, I think your suggestions are poignant and reflective of the overall issue - camping is detrimental to the quality of the game - and provides nothing, it is not a measure of success or something that you can work to overcome - it is simply a waste of time for all involved. Some people have time to waste, others enjoy wasting time, personally I prefer to get out of the game - consider what went wrong, and aim to make it not happen again.

            More importantly, my picks in games now reflect my not wanting to be camped - not FOTM heroes, but heroes that are good at combating camping, heroes like furion who can teleport to an indiscriminate location and wait it out. The fact that my picking is being based on my fear of camping warrants that a solution must be made in my opinion. It is having a clear and measurable affect on my enjoyment of the game. - A game that is otherwise, in a league of its own in terms of enjoyment and competition.

            Comment


            • #7
              I understand the successful feeling you have when you are able to Fountain Camp your enemy---you've devastated the enemy so badly that they're powerless, you're truly awesome.

              However, I think looking at the big picture (both inflicting and receiving sides) it is anti-fun and very discouraging to be on the receiving end of this.

              It would be better for the overall mental health of players if this were to be mitigated in some way.

              Comment


              • #8
                Fountain camping is not a problem, quality of games are.

                Near every single game is a stomp, be it one side or the other.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Maybe they should re-design the fountain, make it deal more damage(perhaps even 1-shot kill maybe since you shouldn't be in the enemy's fountain anyway?) and make the fountain more deeper? And maybe if your in the fountain for 5-10secs you become in-vulnerable like the courier.
                  I like to do stupid stuff even when i know it's stupid.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Envoy View Post
                    Fountain camping is not a problem, quality of games are.

                    Near every single game is a stomp, be it one side or the other.
                    I cannot agree with this, I wouldn't be playing the game if this was true. My issue is that when it is a stomp - it goes on for longer than it should. ~1 in 5 games for me are stomps, ~20%, very few, and I imagine as my MMR will increase so shall the rate of stomps decrease.

                    Originally posted by ShadowReturns View Post
                    Maybe they should re-design the fountain, make it deal more damage(perhaps even 1-shot kill maybe since you shouldn't be in the enemy's fountain anyway?) and make the fountain more deeper? And maybe if your in the fountain for 5-10secs you become in-vulnerable like the courier.
                    This is what Duquesne suggested in their post here: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=120946

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ok... so my team wants to lose in min 15 => sell all items.. make Bloodstone and suicide while close to the fountain=> throne gone in no time....
                      This is how Dota2 games should look like! Game 1_Game 2_Game 3_Game 4_Game 5_Game 6

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        with that suggestion, aa will kill your ancient pretty easily actually.

                        On a more serious note, when you fight near your throne to defend it, it's not rare to die at fountain, even if it's not fountain camping, that might cause some lose which without this, would not happen.

                        Having an option to freeze your hero (but not being able to unfreeze it for 1 min to avoid abuse) would be better.

                        Personnaly, i just find that we should get again the tree behind fountain, to hide very far. That would reduce a lot the fountain camping, as you need tremendous amout of stuff to tank foutain in early/mid game. And it would put the fountain camping art at a much higher level, and will be more interesting for camper aswell.

                        Less time for camping (and also happen much less), and much more interesting to camp, it's just a win win situation

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's unavoidable sometimes that games be affected, but your idea is as formidable as any, there is no reason for it to exist in the game as it currently does. It prolongs what would have undoubtedly been a bad game - and only worsens any tension that might exist within the group.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            No.

                            1) broke Dota2 push strategy (like a backdoor protectiong)
                            2) OMG, fountain deal about 200 damage with 0.34s delay - only VERY VERY VERY fat heroes like a Pudge, LC and etc can kill enemy on fountain.
                            3) If you DONT want it - but Force Stuff and force enemy on your fountain
                            4) If you can't do it - TP out and go in safe place

                            P.S. don't forget - fountain also have a glitch place when you can stay and don't deal damage by radius

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This thread again? Sigh.
                              sigpic

                              Comment

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