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  • #46
    Originally posted by Infer View Post
    Have you, ever, even queued into US East? When US East is the only place you can queue to, to get like 60-100 ms, when compared to a minimum of 200-250, and you solo queue on top of it, you're bound to know why the hell this was changed to be like it is, most of the stuff you said doesn't even hold true for the common solo queuer either but is mostly a matchmaking flaw, just as it is for solo queuers to get matchmade into 4 men stack of players from 4 different south american countries that decided to queue as a 4 man rather than a 5, just so that the poor guy that got queued into them has to deal with "ajajaj xd" "calla noob" "ptm ese wn ql xD"

    I agree that Valve should give solo queue back, it's way too common for foreigners to do their non-5-man burrito/vodka stacks, which I'm pretty sure most people don't want to deal with, if other lonely foreigners want to deal with the other foreigners because they queued for every option and mode to get faster queues even if the matches are awful, then that's sort of their own business. But there's people that don't mind waiting up to 15 minutes for a real match of Dota

    Everybody that's acting like this is the end of the world most likely knows how all the players that have to solo queue from time to time, feel like when they are forced to play with stacks. Apparently, getting the short end of the stick really isn't easy on any of us, now, is it? All the 4 man stacks can still do 2 different 2 man stacks
    i am from europe and search on EU West so i can only speak for this server region but i doubt that it is way worse on any other region.
    If there is a huge difference than i'm sorry for you and any other solo queuer in US east but it still won't justify the current leftout of 4-man stacks. And on the other hand is this situation for you better if you get a 3-man stack and a solo guy which behave the same as the metioned 4-man stack in terms of skill or do you think it's better just because you aren't the (only) target of their flame anymore? i would like to know.

    and tbh if you win a game with a 4-man stacks nobody sees a problem, and of course most 4-man stacks will blame the 5th unknown guy for the lose but hey you just don't have to take it personal (in most cases they just try to blame someone for their own faults). In Dota 90% of all teams that loses, a flame-war is getting started after the first gave up but it will be the same in a 3-1-1, 2-1-2 etc. etc. maybe with the difference that you will not be the target but that's all

    Originally posted by Sa1nt View Post
    Troll / Flamer detected.
    you mad bro?..... i though the same about you
    Last edited by FelicesBladewing; 03-10-2014, 03:55 AM.
    Originally posted by DarkLite
    Valve has abandoned the game! The game is now safe to leave.
    No statistics will be recorded.
    powered by Bashtime

    my view of the current MM: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...907#post769907
    and of RMM: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post879900
    and of solo-q vs party-q: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post929986

    Comment


    • #47
      It's a nice change. As the 5th player of a 4-man stack team I always get blamed for everything.

      Comment


      • #48
        This "experiment" will solely depend on the community so if anyone wants this change, be as happy as possible with your gaming experience. LOL
        Originally posted by whiners
        Help! <game mechanic> is ruining MUH WODOTA! Remove pls!
        Fun is always allowed. Always...

        Comment


        • #49
          I'm still hoping for true solo queue.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by FelicesBladewing View Post
            And on the other hand is this situation for you better if you get a 3-man stack and a solo guy which behave the same as the metioned 4-man stack in terms of skill or do you think it's better just because you aren't the (only) target of their flame anymore? i would like to know.
            If the MM algorithm only has to deal with syncing up a 3-stack for a match in terms MMR instead of a 4-stack, my guess is it's less likely to fail big time. From my experience it's more likely to encounter a tard in a 4-stack than in a 3-stack.

            Then again the only true solution would be adding solo queue to the game again, and like when it still existed, everyone who queued as 4 knew they'll get a random 5th, while everyone who did not tick the "don't match me with parties" was aware that they might get a 4-stack as a team. That way noone had the right to bitch about this issue, because if people wanted to avoid 4-stacks they could just go _real_ solo queue, and while with longer queue times even 4-stacks could get games with a 5th player who is willing to play with a 4-stack (else he'd queue for real solo with no parties involved).

            Instead of that, 4-stacks are now a no-go in ranked, and solo players still get to have lame games due to 3-stacks. Well that's Valve, removing the only change (adding solo queue) that didn't result in an outrage and being silent about it.
            Last edited by Skyforger; 03-10-2014, 04:41 AM.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Skyforger View Post
              If the MM algorithm only has to deal with syncing up a 3-stack for a match in terms MMR instead of a 4-stack, my guess is it's less likely to fail big time. From my experience it's more likely to encounter a tard in a 4-stack than in a 3-stack.
              and this is why a "real" solo queue is properbly the best solution! because my personal experience is that 4-man stacks are most likely to want to win and do anything to reach that goal while smaller stacks play less seriously. so you can decide by yourself if you want to get paired with 4-man stacks or not rather than banning 4-man stacks completly in RMM imo
              Originally posted by DarkLite
              Valve has abandoned the game! The game is now safe to leave.
              No statistics will be recorded.
              powered by Bashtime

              my view of the current MM: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...907#post769907
              and of RMM: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post879900
              and of solo-q vs party-q: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post929986

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by FelicesBladewing View Post
                i am from europe and search on EU West so i can only speak for this server region but i doubt that it is way worse on any other region.
                If there is a huge difference than i'm sorry for you and any other solo queuer in US east but it still won't justify the current leftout of 4-man stacks. And on the other hand is this situation for you better if you get a 3-man stack and a solo guy which behave the same as the metioned 4-man stack in terms of skill or do you think it's better just because you aren't the (only) target of their flame anymore? i would like to know.

                and tbh if you win a game with a 4-man stacks nobody sees a problem, and of course most 4-man stacks will blame the 5th unknown guy for the lose but hey you just don't have to take it personal (in most cases they just try to blame someone for their own faults). In Dota 90% of all teams that loses, a flame-war is getting started after the first gave up but it will be the same in a 3-1-1, 2-1-2 etc. etc. maybe with the difference that you will not be the target but that's all
                Oh trust me, US East is a real cesspool, the place's seriously just a cesspool of the worst kind, in fact, I'd love to just get queued into russians if I was able to queue into any server they can reach, without having to deal with "jajajaja"s and "xd"s every other match

                Then again, I learned the very instant that RMM was added (Exactly when I started to tryhard and do everything I could possibly do to win every match in ranked I could), that if I wanted to win matches in RMM instead of "having fun" then I'd have to be extremely tryhard, considering I'm not trash it works most of the times and I barely ever get flamed by anybody I meet while solo queueing, no matter what role I'm playing or going for; I also believe that most people that tryhard and that also have played this game for long enough, will notice that they'd never, ever, let this game get into them, so players like me completely ignore any sort of "abuse" from some frustrated bad player looking to blame how bad he is on somebody else, although I admit I really love insulting bad people in my team in my games, I mostly tend to do it when we've already won/lost if ever

                Most of the times, the people that get abused by 4 man stacks simply let themselves be abused or weren't exactly trying hard enough to be nice with them. When you really want to win the game, you do your best to increase team morale and choose your words better when addressing your teammates, it's not Valve teaching people to not be toxic, most of the people aren't "toxic" simply because they're tryharding to win the game and are manipulating as many variables as they can, the report system hasn't really made anybody a better player in unranked matchmaking nor even been useful in ranked (Other than to make people fear talking to their enemies, because insulting your enemies your freedoms end where my feelings begin)

                I, along with probably some other people (Mostly people that tend to queue to US East I guess), don't really have anything against 4-stacks just because being the 1 guy left out hurts our feelings, we have something against 4-stacks because, although it looks weird, foreign players tend to group up and most 4-stacks tend to be foreign too, and who'd guess, they're trash most of the times too

                I wouldn't mind getting matchmade into 4-stacks if they didn't consist of tacoburritopiƱata most of the time, again, a language/region restriction with actual moderation or penalties would fix most of the issues with this game

                Originally posted by Skyforger View Post
                If the MM algorithm only has to deal with syncing up a 3-stack for a match in terms MMR instead of a 4-stack, my guess is it's less likely to fail big time. From my experience it's more likely to encounter a tard in a 4-stack than in a 3-stack.

                Then again the only true solution would be adding solo queue to the game again, and like when it still existed, everyone who queued as 4 knew they'll get a random 5th, while everyone who did not tick the "don't match me with parties" was aware that they might get a 4-stack as a team. That way noone had the right to bitch about this issue, because if people wanted to avoid 4-stacks they could just go _real_ solo queue, and while with longer queue times even 4-stacks could get games with a 5th player who is willing to play with a 4-stack (else he'd queue for real solo with no parties involved).

                Instead of that, 4-stacks are now a no-go in ranked, and solo players still get to have lame games due to 3-stacks. Well that's Valve, removing the only change (adding solo queue) that didn't result in an outrage and being silent about it.
                I really want to believe that they just removed it because they wanted to experiment with it and take some statistics, and this is just a test to see the community's reactions. Because I just cannot fathom a company as big and popular, and with such a good history as Valve, to be this obtuse and narrow-minded, likely to remove one of the most loved features this game's had in its entire existence

                Originally posted by FelicesBladewing View Post
                and this is why a "real" solo queue is properbly the best solution! because my personal experience is that 4-man stacks are most likely to want to win and do anything to reach that goal while smaller stacks play less seriously. so you can decide by yourself if you want to get paired with 4-man stacks or not rather than banning 4-man stacks completly in RMM imo
                We're going one step at a time with this, maybe if we show we all loved it, then they'll kind of get the idea and go further into adding (A feature we already fucking HAD) real solo queue back, maybe even allowing players to queue for both ranked solo (while being matchmade into parties) and ranked solo (completely solo)

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Infer View Post
                  Oh trust me, US East is a real cesspool, the place's seriously just a cesspool of the worst kind, in fact, I'd love to just get queued into russians if I was able to queue into any server they can reach, without having to deal with "jajajaja"s and "xd"s every other match

                  Then again, I learned the very instant that RMM was added (Exactly when I started to tryhard and do everything I could possibly do to win every match in ranked I could), that if I wanted to win matches in RMM instead of "having fun" then I'd have to be extremely tryhard, considering I'm not trash it works most of the times and I barely ever get flamed by anybody I meet while solo queueing, no matter what role I'm playing or going for; I also believe that most people that tryhard and that also have played this game for long enough, will notice that they'd never, ever, let this game get into them, so players like me completely ignore any sort of "abuse" from some frustrated bad player looking to blame how bad he is on somebody else, although I admit I really love insulting bad people in my team in my games, I mostly tend to do it when we've already won/lost if ever

                  Most of the times, the people that get abused by 4 man stacks simply let themselves be abused or weren't exactly trying hard enough to be nice with them. When you really want to win the game, you do your best to increase team morale and choose your words better when addressing your teammates, it's not Valve teaching people to not be toxic, most of the people aren't "toxic" simply because they're tryharding to win the game and are manipulating as many variables as they can, the report system hasn't really made anybody a better player in unranked matchmaking nor even been useful in ranked (Other than to make people fear talking to their enemies, because insulting your enemies your freedoms end where my feelings begin)

                  I, along with probably some other people (Mostly people that tend to queue to US East I guess), don't really have anything against 4-stacks just because being the 1 guy left out hurts our feelings, we have something against 4-stacks because, although it looks weird, foreign players tend to group up and most 4-stacks tend to be foreign too, and who'd guess, they're trash most of the times too

                  I wouldn't mind getting matchmade into 4-stacks if they didn't consist of tacoburritopiƱata most of the time, again, a language/region restriction with actual moderation or penalties would fix most of the issues with this game



                  I really want to believe that they just removed it because they wanted to experiment with it and take some statistics, and this is just a test to see the community's reactions. Because I just cannot fathom a company as big and popular, and with such a good history as Valve, to be this obtuse and narrow-minded, likely to remove one of the most loved features this game's had in its entire existence



                  We're going one step at a time with this, maybe if we show we all loved it, then they'll kind of get the idea and go further into adding (A feature we already fucking HAD) real solo queue back, maybe even allowing players to queue for both ranked solo (while being matchmade into parties) and ranked solo (completely solo)
                  so if they (the latinos) tend to be that bad without trolling why the hell does they even have the same MMR than someone who is like you said to yourself "tryharding" i said in my RMM review (you are invited to read it in my sig. ) that this is to random and as i feels in your post like i am right.
                  regardless language issues which tbh is really a thing they need to fix asap; if they have the same ambition to win and on average the same skillevel it should be also fixing the problem right?

                  because than the only difference between being with a stack or with other solos is again cooperation and coordination which were the main arguements in my first post.

                  And lets hope Valve will find a way to please us without outcasting any group or kind of player
                  Originally posted by DarkLite
                  Valve has abandoned the game! The game is now safe to leave.
                  No statistics will be recorded.
                  powered by Bashtime

                  my view of the current MM: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...907#post769907
                  and of RMM: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post879900
                  and of solo-q vs party-q: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post929986

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    I don't see why this experiment is even taking place. People liked the option of Solo Q. They simply should not have taken that OPTION out. If u wanted to play Solo Q you could, if you wanted a 4-man or 5-man stack you just unchecked the Solo Q box. Valve's logic is entirely flawed.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Commander_John_Crichton View Post
                      I don't see why this experiment is even taking place. People liked the option of Solo Q. They simply should not have taken that OPTION out. If u wanted to play Solo Q you could, if you wanted a 4-man or 5-man stack you just unchecked the Solo Q box. Valve's logic is entirely flawed.
                      Solo would have brought the wait times for a game into unacceptable levels of time. You'd be splintering an already divided pool of people into hard to match parameters. Ultimately, you'd have lower quality games (less people in the pool means more of a difference in Team MMR) and longer wait times.

                      If those that want Solo would think critically for just a minute, they'd completely understand why it isn't feasible with ranked.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by ned_ballad View Post
                        Solo would have brought the wait times for a game into unacceptable levels of time. You'd be splintering an already divided pool of people into hard to match parameters. Ultimately, you'd have lower quality games (less people in the pool means more of a difference in Team MMR) and longer wait times.

                        If those that want Solo would think critically for just a minute, they'd completely understand why it isn't feasible with ranked.
                        Then how come Solo Q worked just fine before?

                        Now what we got is 2+2+1 stacks vs a potential 1+1+1+1+1, which means the 2+2+1 team is gonna have better communication than the second team. Solo Q levels the playing field where communication is paramount. And I had no problems finding Solo Q matches in the past.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          most ppl dont realize that in order to bring back solo Q back, you need to disallow 4-man stacks. If you dont- you run into a ton of problems. Since every sane person that has an IQ higher than 15 will allways select the "Solo Q when alone" option. And in that case a 4-man stack wont ever find a game.

                          To be absolutely honest- the reason why I think Valve removed Solo Q was mainly because 4-man stacks probably couldnt find a game any more, since again, every sane and rationally thinking person would select "Solo Q when alone". Putting yourself in the position of potentially beeing the 5th guy in the 4-man stack is sheer retarded.

                          There are some stacks who will never go as 5 simply to have the option to blame the 5th guy when they fail miserably. Or they hope to have luck with a competent 5th guy that will carry their sorry asses when the stack absolutely sucks in the game.

                          @Infer- I used to play Solo Q on US east now and then during late hours here in europe, in order to find games faster. But after dealing with several 3-4 man stacks from latin america, Im never going back to us east again. Except with a full 5-man stack, thats the only way. Id rather play on SEA servers with 400 ping than Solo Q on USE. If there are ppl who think its bad with russians on euro servers, you guys have absolutely no idea. I guess europeans can only be happy that Peruvians have unplayable ping to our servers.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Commander_John_Crichton View Post
                            Then how come Solo Q worked just fine before?

                            Now what we got is 2+2+1 stacks vs a potential 1+1+1+1+1, which means the 2+2+1 team is gonna have better communication than the second team. Solo Q levels the playing field where communication is paramount. And I had no problems finding Solo Q matches in the past.
                            Because the pool wasn't split. When Valve made ranked, they cut the potential players in any game mode in half. Cutting it up again into a solo queue would have been disastrous for wait times and MMR matching.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by ned_ballad View Post
                              Because the pool wasn't split. When Valve made ranked, they cut the potential players in any game mode in half. Cutting it up again into a solo queue would have been disastrous for wait times and MMR matching.
                              I dont see why they needed to separate the ranked mode, when your normal modes also have the hidden RMM. Imo they shoulda kept solo Q and made the normal mode "ranked". After all- the only thing different from ranked is that it has less game modes and it shows you the RMM number that is just hidden for the normal mode.

                              Valve should just do "ladder resets" like it used to be in WC3 every now and then. Like do calibration games every year or 1.5 years. It would give ppl motivation to keep improving untill the next calibration matches take place.

                              Valve you listened to us with removing 4-man stacks and it was a good thing. Now make the normal mode "ranked" and bring back solo Q again, since the player pool will be one huge player pool again. Theres not much difference in match quality if I play ranked or unranked, so it suggests that the MM algorithm is the same basically. So why have 2 separate modes?

                              #makenormalmoderanked #bringbacksoloq

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                I think longer queue times are better than playing with non-english speakers. I would like the seaech range not to expand. The system to just aimply search for what I asked. And everybody with the same conditions to be put in the same pool with me. Instead , the search expands to match me with non-english speakers and why not in high ping conditions. The quality of the game DOES matter !

                                And again, this change is one step forward to improve GAME QUALITY not just search time.

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