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Streamlining and fixing Dota 2

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  • Streamlining and fixing Dota 2

    I apologize in advance if you know of a better place to put this. Not really sure to place it.

    I've played a lot of MOBA style games, getting into it first because of League (since it obviously got super popular for awhile), and then branching out to others until I eventually settled with Dota2. Dota2 is by far my favorite, I love a lot of the depth, and I love a lot of the complexity of the game. Denies are a fantastic mechanic, stacking is a great mechanic, blocking camps, the cash shop is balanced and fair, and I'm genuinely interested in watching pro matches, something I never was in the other games. I've played this game for a long time now and I know a lot about it and try to encourage others to play it. However, as I try to get other people into the game, I'm noticing a lot of flaws that are really frustrating things to convey to people because of how unnatural and odd certain mechanics are.

    Towers are a great example. In literally every other Moba I can think of, towers have a very predictable and explained agro mechanic. If there's creeps by it, it'll shoot them, and then you last. Unless of course you're attacking an enemy, in which it'll focus on you. Snap to Dota 2 and this is a really hard to figure out thing. Yes, sources such as the wiki list how agro is supposed to work (focusing on what's closer unless you're hitting a hero or whatever), but that's often not the case. I've played someone like Wind Runner and had a tower focus on me before any of the Ranged or melee creeps who were closer without a hero being close by for me to even consider attacking. By the same token I've dived after people as a melee hero who brushes right past the tower without even getting attacked by it once as I run by (and hit the enemy a few times as I do). The agro change mechanic is a little clunky as well. I don't so much mind it as it helps off set the awkward agro system (If it targets me, I just have it target something else and move on), it WORKS, it's NOT HORRIBLE, and it's probably pretty true to the old Dota, but it doesn't feel right, it feels like a pretty needless thing that could be improved if the AI of it was simply improved and made something more easily understood by players. The current system makes it very easy for an experienced player to make a tower useless, and make a newer player never understand what he can do to improve until some guy reports him for being a noob and he ask some more experienced guy what he can do.


    Trolls are a problem in any game, but it's far worse in game where everyone has abilities that can mess with their allies (Void's chrono, Keeper's summon, etc). I don't really have a big issue with heroes being able to do this as you can turn off help to avoid things like Keeper trolling you with his summon, but then the problem lies with things such as the courier, the courier can easily be controlled to let someone take other people's items, and dump them around the map. Even the person who buys the courier has very little defense against someone who purposely wants to throw the courier into the enemy team, stop items from being delivered, or take that Reaver someone spent all their money on and put it in their inventory so nobody can use it. It's a frustrating thing that should have a fairly simple fix, there's no reason I should have to worry about some guy on my team who's frustrated because he died a lot and take it out on other people (Which can often include people who didn't even say anything or blame the guy or do anything rude to him). Sure I can move the Courier back when he moves it to the enemy team, but it's hard to control my character and the courier when someone else is just spam clicking the courier.


    Gold Bounty is another odd issue of "Why does this exist." Creeps can randomly give more or less gold when killed, I'm not some super pro who knows every minute detail there is, so if there's an honest formula that helps balance this out, I'd love to know, but from my experience, it seems mostly random. I can farm the exact same amount as someone else and come up with a large difference in our gold as a result of pure luck on the creeps dropping larger or smaller bounties. This doesn't add depth or complexity to the game, it adds randomness and luck. In a game that's pushing itself as a big e-sport that's all about skill, why does this even exist? It makes no sense.



    That's really all I have to say. I hope someone who reads agrees in some form, I'd love to see any of these changes go in to help make the game easier to understand for newbies and experienced players alike. I'm also semi curious how many replies I'll get with people saying that Dota is perfect and no changes need to be made and they stopped reading at the League part...

  • #2
    Remember that dota is not a game made for new players. If you played a lot of wc3, at lot of the dota mechanics would make more sense to you, though many still wouldn't like hero skills and such which were hardcoded a lot of the time.

    Towers: For me, in dota, towers make way more sense than in any other moba. In dota, the tower recognizes if you are focusing someone or something, or if something or someone is just in your line of focus. While the towers aren't intuitive, they still make a lot of sense.

    Trolls: There are a lot of trolls in dota, this is true. We have Troll Warlord, the Shadow Priest, Huskar, trolls in the jungle, trolls everwhere. A lot of the features you described are both helpful and detrimental. I would rather have features that are both good and bad than leave out those features entirely.

    Gold Bounty and other things: A lot of dota varies up to a degree. There is a formula for a lot of it and the rest is within a range of + or - something. This goes for any gold bounties as well as any auto attacks. The only thing that does not vary like this is spells. But it's impact on the game is usually not very high and there are many tiems you can completely ignore it, the luck factor is almost nil (between gold bounties and auto attacks).

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Copain View Post


      Towers are a great example. In literally every other Moba I can think of, towers have a very predictable and explained agro mechanic. If there's creeps by it, it'll shoot them, and then you last. Unless of course you're attacking an enemy, in which it'll focus on you. Snap to Dota 2 and this is a really hard to figure out thing. Yes, sources such as the wiki list how agro is supposed to work (focusing on what's closer unless you're hitting a hero or whatever), but that's often not the case. I've played someone like Wind Runner and had a tower focus on me before any of the Ranged or melee creeps who were closer without a hero being close by for me to even consider attacking. By the same token I've dived after people as a melee hero who brushes right past the tower without even getting attacked by it once as I run by (and hit the enemy a few times as I do). The agro change mechanic is a little clunky as well. I don't so much mind it as it helps off set the awkward agro system (If it targets me, I just have it target something else and move on), it WORKS, it's NOT HORRIBLE, and it's probably pretty true to the old Dota, but it doesn't feel right, it feels like a pretty needless thing that could be improved if the AI of it was simply improved and made something more easily understood by players. The current system makes it very easy for an experienced player to make a tower useless, and make a newer player never understand what he can do to improve until some guy reports him for being a noob and he ask some more experienced guy what he can do.
      Nothing broken in tower aggro -apart from all feature missing ofc-. the concept is pretty logical, and simple. But actually even more, it's the whole aggro system that miss A LOT OF feature of the dota1 aggro; but still, considering all that is missing, the tower aggro is not off of the whole dota2 aggro.
      Feature that are missing:
      none instant reaggro (mostly important for creep)
      no difference between attack move and move order
      no "you cann't unaggro tower if you rightclicked a hero to take the aggro"
      difference aggro behaviour depending on if you try to "deny" an ally creep / ally hero.
      much less agressiv creep over the time, when you aggro them
      ally creep no longer attack creep that you aggroed
      True difference on the behaviour of creep, if you are alone trying to deny a tower, or generally speaking when you deny.

      All those feature made the aggro much complex, but also much enjoyable, while still staying logical.
      Last edited by miambox; 03-22-2014, 01:49 PM.

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      • #4
        Lol. If you think tower aggro is broken, then give proof with a replay. Otherwise, fix your brain before fixing dota 2.

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        • #5
          z
          Last edited by Magikarpkr; 07-06-2019, 06:26 PM.

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          • #6
            1. The tower mechanic is designed in such a way it will first defend any allied hero being attacked then defend itself. Spells doesn't count but it has a practical use in high level games where you dive enemies using spells instead of auto attacks. Changing the AI would change the gameplay altogether especially on tower dives. I never know the exact tower mechanics few years ago but just from observation and experience I learned how tower AI works. Only in a later time did I learn about deaggro by attacking your own units. If you want to attempt some logic in there, just think of it as fooling the tower as being an ally because you tried to attack your own units. Towers value the life of the heroes and they also value their own life which is why they will ignore the creeps not touching it and aggro on the one that is attacking them.

            2. In DotA, the one who bought the courier has the option of unsharing the courier which is why most pubs in DotA you will see 5 couriers on one team because no one trusts anyone. I'm not sure why Valve removed that option in Dota 2. They probably want to encourage teamwork in exchange of players having easier time messing with the courier. I would like to see this option being added by Valve.

            3. Gold randomness is a non-factor. Does it fcks you up because you are short of 1 gold when you last hit the creep? Of course not because you receive passive gold every 0.6 seconds anyway so you can just wait out the missing gold to buy the items. They are just flavor for the game. Just think of the creeps as individuals and they are worth slightly different. Randomness in an acceptable level is fine for a competitive game because randomness will test the players ability to react or plan ahead if an unfavorable situation occurs.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Magikarpkr View Post
              No need to be rude. He was just stating his opinion on the subject. Besides with so many things broken in Dota 2, you would seem to think it's part of the game.
              As for the current system of tower aggro, it may seem very easy for an experienced player, but that's the thing, they experienced it and learned it. Everyone starts our new and has to learn the game and get use to it. It depends on one's efforts to strive and be known as that "experienced" player to know the system. It's like when you play your first MOBA and had no idea how that system of a game works. An experienced player would understand it well and a new player would of course not understand it as much, but it is possible to learn it.
              He says he read the wiki. It's easier to call something "bugged" than to accept that you did something wrong or failed to understand it.

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