Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules

  • No flaming or derogatory remarks, directly or through insinuation.
  • No discussion, sharing or referencing illegal software such as hacks, keygen, cracks and pirated software.
  • No offensive contents, including but not limited to, racism, gore or pornography.
  • No excessive spam/meme, i.e. copious one liners in a short period of time, typing with all caps or posting meme responses (text/image).
  • No trolling, including but not limited to, flame incitation, user provocation or false information distribution.
  • No link spamming or signature advertisements for content not specific to Dota 2.
  • No Dota 2 key requests, sell, trade etc.
  • You may not create multiple accounts for any purpose, including ban evasion, unless expressly permitted by a moderator.

  • Please search before posting. One thread per issue. Do not create another thread if there is an existing one already.
  • Before posting anything, make sure you check out all sticky threads (e.g., this). Do not create new threads about closed ones.
  • It is extremely important that you post in correct forum section.

  • Balance discussion only in Misc.
  • All art related (such as hero model) feedbacks go to Art Feedback Forum.
  • All matchmaking feedback should go here: Matchmaking Feedback
  • All report/low priority issues should go here: Commend/Report/Ban Feedback
  • No specific workshop item feedback. These should go to workshop page of that item.
  • When posting in non-bugs section (such as this), use [Bugs], [Discussion] or [Suggestion] prefix in your thread name.



In case you object some action by a moderator, please contact him directly through PM and explain your concerns politely. If you are still unable to resolve the issue, contact an administrator. Do not drag these issues in public.



All rules are meant to augment common sense, please use them when not conflicted with aforementioned policies.
See more
See less

Dodging and how we should look at it

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I dont think a banlist would be a remedy, people already use the mute as a banlist to dodge people and that is not working and lots of dumb players are already abusing it to try and raise their MMR. And even that one has a limit (not sure how many people, but someone around said it was something like 100-200) And people are coming here already bitching that its full.

    The issue of the banlist would be 3 things from my point of view:
    • No matter how small you make it, its still abusable.
    • You can make it less abusable by reducing the number as you suggest, but that also makes it less useful for its original purpose, and it basically kills itself (similar to the current report system, we started with unlimited reports, then 10, then 5, then 2-3 because the system is shit)
    • Its still relying on angry players to make uninformed judgements. Sometimes you see people who dont get along in a game, and/or play very shit, and next game they become huge assets to the same team.


    Adding a banlist would be adding a broken system that limits the number of times a player can use it, to try and cover the holes of another broken system that also needs to limit the number of times a player can use it to reduce abuse. (NOTE: Reduce, not eliminate abuse, because thats just not possible with this kind of system)

    So I believe the solution is FIXING the report system once and for all. That way we would get rid of real griefers. And dumb dodgers would be unable to judge players who might be better than them and are just having a bad game. Not to mention that making an MM system that can deal with a banlist for each individual player without increasing search times to stupid levels would be quite difficult to make, with what I'd consider very little/few benefits.
    Last edited by Shmendrich; 04-17-2015, 08:15 PM.
    Make a NON automated report system.
    I would rather wait 10 minutes for a balanced, fun and exciting match that will last 1+ hours. Than wait 10 seconds for a poorly balanced crapmatch that will end in 30- minutes
    Valve, How I'm I supposed to respect certain boundaries to prevent a mute if I dont know them because they are different for each and every person on each and every game I play?
    The only type of player that dislikes having his stats public are the players that suck and cheaters

    Comment


    • So, banlist 1.0


      1) we have 10 players. Player x is on 3 guys' ban list. That is 3 out of 9, a 33%. The game gets going and x joins. No dodging allowed, the game is legit.

      2) we have 10 players. Player x is on 6 guys' ban list. That means 66% of the players in that game don't want x in their games -> majority in THAT game wins, x is booted and goes into high priority queue, while the system searches for another a player in that game.


      OK.. to avoid gems in the system: all bans auto expire after 30 days. No way to manually add a ban, just through the game interface. No manual typing of Steam accounts. 30 days is more than enough to get you booted out of every game if you are a horrible noob or flamer and EVERYONE hates playing with you. Also, it is pretty hard to get a freak of nature in your system if it auto refreshes every once in a while.

      To avoid hate bans: they don't work. If I want to abuse my MMR and avoid you in a game, it doesn't matter I ban list you because the majority IN THAT GAME has nothing against him. If you are the only one with something against that guy, then it probably is a personal matter and the game should not care about your personal issues with someone, only about facts. Sure, you might get forced into a game with someone on your ban list, but if he is truly ban worthy and not just a guy you didn't like he will get at least +3 ban lists.. hell he might get more if the enemy team has a conscience or interest in the quality of their own future games.

      Also, the account is not lost. You take a timeout or play UNRANKED which is NOT affected by ban list. It will also refresh itself in 30+ days since all bans expire MANDATORY after that period. Better than banning, better than LPQ, better than anything. The fact that the said player will feel AVOIDED by community members is the only true chance to make him behave. None of this LPQ kindergarten shit. Oh and, kiddies get to keep their virtual pixels on their hero and still feel REAL punishment.
      Last edited by gorno; 04-19-2015, 06:46 AM.

      Comment


      • Cancer spreading: reddit
        R.I.P. dotabuff, time to delete your account.

        I actually made a local html page that could do the exact thing from inside steam's browser, but I did not publish it like this idiot/scum...
        So, anyone up to a petition · ༼ つ _ ༽つ Remove server_log.txt?
        Last edited by aveyo; 04-21-2015, 06:56 AM.
        Troubleshooting crashes
        Dota 2 Resources: autoexec.cfg reference / benchmark.cfg / Tweak it yourself (launch options, cvars) / useful batch files
        No-Bling GlanceValue & FPS ++ NEW! Panorama hotkeys NEW! dota_primary_mm_language_override NEW TOGGLE_QUICKCAST_TP.bat NEW FIX LEGACY KEYS YOURSELF! NEW Toggle UI Animations OFF

        Comment


        • And how is that relevant here, aveyo?
          sigpic

          Comment


          • Originally posted by J2Krauser View Post
            And how is that relevant here, aveyo?
            How are you?
            I helped put that shit out of reddit frontpage. But it's still out there for grabs, and most abusers, like many from this thread, will use it.
            Troubleshooting crashes
            Dota 2 Resources: autoexec.cfg reference / benchmark.cfg / Tweak it yourself (launch options, cvars) / useful batch files
            No-Bling GlanceValue & FPS ++ NEW! Panorama hotkeys NEW! dota_primary_mm_language_override NEW TOGGLE_QUICKCAST_TP.bat NEW FIX LEGACY KEYS YOURSELF! NEW Toggle UI Animations OFF

            Comment


            • Thread: Dodging and how we should look at it

              I mean, how is that relevant here?
              sigpic

              Comment


              • A guy posted on reddit a website/program with which you can see your teammates/opponents most played heroes etc. That site will probably be used to determine if the game should be dodged or not.
                I haven't seen any good uses for server_log.txt. In TF2 it was abused to find players with lucky un-crates (unusual hats).
                James "2GD" Harding's career as a Dota 2 host on Valve events
                * 25.02.16 - † 26.02.16
                Spoiler: 


                Comment


                • Actually, having the system remain random, irrelevant of reports would be fairest to ratings, assuming people don't hold grudges.

                  That's maybe a bit of a stretch, so maybe the matchmaker should be discouraged from matching you with someone you reported last game. That's about it though.

                  Other than that, using information you should not have (non-public information) about a player to prevent point loss gives you a tiny but significant advantage in the grand scheme of things. That advantage has little to do with playing the game, just with gaming the system. So I would say it's pretty bad.

                  I suggest not revealing the names and profile pictures of other players aside from known team members (friends or party) before the match starts in public matchmaking. If the match already started, dodging at this point costs you MMR, thus giving exactly zero incentive to do so. Problem effectively solved, as dodging will never stand to increase MMR (or 'lose less MMR') than you can expect while playing the game. After all, a 5% chance of gaining 25 points and a 95% chance of losing 25 beats losing 25 100% of the time.
                  Alternatively, count the match as abandoned if disconnecting during the loading screen while people connect (e.g. after you can see other people's handles, you're locked into the game).

                  Comment


                  • Am I missing anything or you cannot longer see who you muted in reborn?

                    That really sucks, Valve. If you have an almost useless reporting and anti-hack system, at least allow us to dodge if we recognize an ultra noob.

                    Comment


                    • Nah its kewl they try to stop dodgers.

                      The people who dodge often (more than once a week) are among the worst in DotA
                      Make a NON automated report system.
                      I would rather wait 10 minutes for a balanced, fun and exciting match that will last 1+ hours. Than wait 10 seconds for a poorly balanced crapmatch that will end in 30- minutes
                      Valve, How I'm I supposed to respect certain boundaries to prevent a mute if I dont know them because they are different for each and every person on each and every game I play?
                      The only type of player that dislikes having his stats public are the players that suck and cheaters

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Shmendrich View Post
                        Nah its kewl they try to stop dodgers.

                        The people who dodge often (more than once a week) are among the worst in DotA
                        Worst problem is getting matched again with people you reported before. I only mute and dodge those that I reported for either raging, griefing or excessive feeding. Why would I have to play with people that I quite clearly didn't enjoy playing with. I'd rather wait a few minutes then wasting an hour of my time.
                        Volvo, how the fk are we supposed to stick by the rules and not get reported if those rules are different for everyone and there is no one controlling at all why people are reporting someone? Either implement oversight or remove your utterly broken and useless report system

                        Comment


                        • I agree with that. And I have dodged like that before "Oh I had this shithead last game feediing couriers". But frankly most of the people who defend dodging do it way more often than that and for way dumber reasons.

                          Hence as you said I also agree I dont mind waiting a few minutes whenever I dodge to have to match again. That way people who do it often get harsher and harsher punishments.

                          I play quite a bit, and frankly its less than once a week when I need to dodge. Sometimes not even once in a month or two.
                          Make a NON automated report system.
                          I would rather wait 10 minutes for a balanced, fun and exciting match that will last 1+ hours. Than wait 10 seconds for a poorly balanced crapmatch that will end in 30- minutes
                          Valve, How I'm I supposed to respect certain boundaries to prevent a mute if I dont know them because they are different for each and every person on each and every game I play?
                          The only type of player that dislikes having his stats public are the players that suck and cheaters

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Shmendrich View Post
                            I agree with that. And I have dodged like that before "Oh I had this shithead last game feediing couriers". But frankly most of the people who defend dodging do it way more often than that and for way dumber reasons.

                            Hence as you said I also agree I dont mind waiting a few minutes whenever I dodge to have to match again. That way people who do it often get harsher and harsher punishments.

                            I play quite a bit, and frankly its less than once a week when I need to dodge. Sometimes not even once in a month or two.
                            try playing solo mmr on eu west. You'll be running into cyka blyat I go in 1 v 5 WHERE TEAM, NOOB WAAAAAGH. Repeat that a couple of times and I definitely don't want to see you in my games anymore. Problem is, that happens about once every 4 games.
                            Volvo, how the fk are we supposed to stick by the rules and not get reported if those rules are different for everyone and there is no one controlling at all why people are reporting someone? Either implement oversight or remove your utterly broken and useless report system

                            Comment


                            • Then your problem is that valve does not respect language selections (It doesnt, in the past they said the system uses it as a preference. It prefers placing you with people who select your same language, but its not a must)
                              Make a NON automated report system.
                              I would rather wait 10 minutes for a balanced, fun and exciting match that will last 1+ hours. Than wait 10 seconds for a poorly balanced crapmatch that will end in 30- minutes
                              Valve, How I'm I supposed to respect certain boundaries to prevent a mute if I dont know them because they are different for each and every person on each and every game I play?
                              The only type of player that dislikes having his stats public are the players that suck and cheaters

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Shmendrich View Post
                                No, dodging is not okay. And no, thats not how we should "Look at it". If ANYTHING the only thing that valve should do is not match you for 24 hours with players you just reported. If you reported someone its unlikely you will have any level of cooperation with them in the next game simply because of the grudge and because of whatever happened last game.

                                Personally I think the system should be even more harsh. First dodge is okay to be short because maybe a friend came by or something, but second dodge within the same 24 hours should lead to at least 24 hours wait. There's literally NO REASON for a player to dodge that often unless he is: Having a tech issue (which he should fix before trying to play), trying to cheat the system, trolling, or simply a whiny bitch who blames everyone else for his own screwups.

                                I love how you want to rationalize and change the words for "I want to be able to cheat the system to raise my MMR above what it should really be, waste the time of 9 other people each time I do it, and I dont want to be punished for it"
                                I disagree completely. What I used to do pre 7.00 was mute toxic players, feeders etc. and unmuted those who were just annoying at the end of the game. This way I could dodge the ones that mean an instantly lost game. And yes, I mean instantly lost. One example was a guy who intentionally fed all of his last 10 ranked games (and before you say "Maybe he is just a bad player.": 0-25+ repeatedly isn't just achieved by playing bad).

                                Then Valve took away the abilty to look at recent matches and in 7.00 you can't dodge at all.

                                I don't like the mechanic of dodging but we surely need something like a personal banlist. I would gladly accept +10 mins of waiting for a game if it spares me 20 minutes of pure agony and guaranteed -25 MMR.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X