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[CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTION] COMMUNITY REGULATED MUTE SYSTEM (CRMS)

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  • [CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTION] COMMUNITY REGULATED MUTE SYSTEM (CRMS)

    The mute system is not a bad idea. It is just the implementation that sucked.
    Here are my suggestions to solve the problem based on my limited experience and lack of official data.

    UPDATE: After reading through comments by others, I have acknowledged that my suggestion can be improved by having a two-prong approach. My first solution below solves 1 of the 2 major problems: Too hard to play and have any form of control over muted players (you or your team mates) in-game. Solution 2 will solve problem 2 which is Too Easy to report players for any reasons.

    PROBLEM ONE:
    1) There is nothing people can do to their mutes. : No Control
    2) Once people are muted, they are forced to use the chat wheel for in-game communication. And forcing one to use the chat wheel only frustrates people further. : Punishment with negative reinforcement
    3) People just do not feel good to be not in control. They feel helpless in a game they play passionately. : Helplessness

    SOLUTION:
    Just give some control back to the user / community. Experiment with a community self-regulated mechanism and see if the results are better than the current system..
    a) Give us an option to toggle unmute muted team mates (if we can take the rage): Team mate Control
    b) If a muted player gets unmuted for a few games consecutively, their mute gets lifted. : Community self-regulation

    RESULT:
    a) Muted players will try to be non-abusive to have their mutes lifted asap. : Behaviour Change
    b) Team mates get to control how they want to balance their game experience - verbally abusive vs muted team mates : Team mate Control
    c) Those who improve their behaviour gets bans lifted earlier and enjoy their game more. Same for their team mates and the overall community as a whole. : Positive Reinforcement

    HOW TO DO IT:
    1. Show who are muted at the loading screen and team mates can toggle their mute on/off
    2. A request button for muted users to request teammates to unmute them.
    3. Whenever a muted player tries to use chat, in-game chat shows "XXX player tries to chat with you but is muted. Unmute XXX?" Team mate decides.
    4. For players that continue to be abusive, team mates can mute them again.
    5. Pop up after loading Dota2 shows how many people you have help improve and lift bans to improve game experience.

    ===================================

    UPDATE:
    PROBLEM TWO
    1. It is very easy to report players for all kind of reasons: System Abuse
    3. People are reporting others based on knee jerk reactions and not any of the Valve laid out button options: System Abuse
    3. There is no penalties for false reports: System Abuse
    4. Reducing no. of reports does not take away the ease of reporting. Especially when more reporting(right or wrong) is encouraged by topping them up. : Ineffective solution

    SOLUTION:
    Have ways to make reporting harder, more genuine and serious.
    1. Make reporting a more tedious process and let people think if it is worth the trouble to report: Encourage forgiveness
    2. Make false reports consideration for future report priority and weightage. : Encourage genuine reports

    RESULT:
    1. Knee jerk reactions reports will decrease because it is not worth the effort to report. : Reduced overheads.
    2. Genuine reports will be more prominent because people who make an effort to go through the whole process must be serious at helping others.: Improved results.
    3. People are actually reported for actions that warrant it and less innocent players are penalised : Higher accuracy.

    HOW TO DO IT:
    1. Have the system prompt the user "Are you sure you to report this player? Note that falsely reported players might ruin the overall experience of your games too". with a OK or Cancel button choice, followed by the usual reporting buttons. : Proper consideration
    2. Remove the ability to type in anything you want in report. Limit reports to only what is available in a dropdown list. Any kind of reports that does not fall under this list, is taken out of consideration immediately. : Stricter Options
    3. A thank you message appears with the following message
    "Thank you for your report. We take reports seriously and false calls even more so. Your reports will count towards consideration for future report importance and priority. You also agree to allow Valve representatives to contact you for clarifications if required."
    : Abuse Deterrence

    REMARKS:
    This is a very simple alteration to the system that I believe could yield massive results.
    We have to start with the mentality that the majority of players want a good game. A non-abusive one. Even for muted/banned players Just that our expectations for a good game are different for each.
    I believe it will work because the community has
    a) acknowledged the behaviour change and
    b) feed-backed that his mute was unwarranted.

    Please vote! And any constructive comments are welcomed. Hey everyone is passionate about Dota2 here
    90
    Yes! Definitely better than the current one!
    71.11%
    64
    No. Don't fix what is not broken.
    14.44%
    13
    No idea. Does not affect me at all.
    14.44%
    13
    Last edited by mr_9sky; 06-26-2013, 11:06 AM. Reason: Added secondary suggestions
    COMMUNITY REGULATED MUTE SYSTEM (CRMS) A Simple Idea with Massive Results
    UNOFFICIAL DASHBOARD POLL Dashboard - OLD vs NEW
    DOTA2 Items ICON SET Design Comparison CHART - Icon Cheat Sheet
    POLL: HEALTH BAR at TOP BAR? - Add health bar to top bar Valve!
    True Sight Indicator like dota1 - What happened to the true sight symbol?!?

  • #2
    I support, on paper it does look great. A bit of efforts from Valve and it could be even better.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm behind this system, it sure beats the current one.

      Comment


      • #4
        It's a decent suggestion, although the best solution still is to remove any sort of automated mute system and let players "balance their game experience" by muting people themselves, just like the old days.

        Comment


        • #5
          I voted yes, I kind of like the idea but...I think there's better options.


          Then again, if you grab a potatoe, draw a sad face on it and hang a piece of paper from it that says "Mute system" even that would be better than the current one

          So you dont have much competition from the actual system
          Make a NON automated report system.
          I would rather wait 10 minutes for a balanced, fun and exciting match that will last 1+ hours. Than wait 10 seconds for a poorly balanced crapmatch that will end in 30- minutes
          Valve, How I'm I supposed to respect certain boundaries to prevent a mute if I dont know them because they are different for each and every person on each and every game I play?
          The only type of player that dislikes having his stats public are the players that suck and cheaters

          Comment


          • #6
            In which way is the mute system not a bad idea though? The only arguably positive thing it does is protect extremely thin-skinned players from the first unfriendly message they may have received before being able to press the mute button. And in that case not only Dota, but any competitive multiplayer game is most likely not for you. On the other hand, the list of terrible things any form of automated muting does to a teamplay-based game is HUGE.

            Comment


            • #7
              they should change the age rating of dota 2 to +3 with this mute system lol...
              and about your suggestion... sound nice.

              Comment


              • #8
                After considerable research and thorough investigation, I have finally discovered how the mute system works...its valve's most dearest and well kept secret and I'm about to present it to you guys, a detailed and in depth example of how the system works...without further ado, I give you...valve's mute system:
                ....
                .......
                ........
                ..........
                ...........
                ............

                Last edited by Shmendrich; 06-25-2013, 03:04 AM.
                Make a NON automated report system.
                I would rather wait 10 minutes for a balanced, fun and exciting match that will last 1+ hours. Than wait 10 seconds for a poorly balanced crapmatch that will end in 30- minutes
                Valve, How I'm I supposed to respect certain boundaries to prevent a mute if I dont know them because they are different for each and every person on each and every game I play?
                The only type of player that dislikes having his stats public are the players that suck and cheaters

                Comment


                • #9
                  In addition to what you have proposed, I still think actual humans should review mutes that are longer than a specified amount of time.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Christian88 View Post
                    In addition to what you have proposed, I still think actual humans should review mutes that are longer than a specified amount of time.
                    Though that would be the best way to go about, it would take involve too much manpower which I don't think Valve would do. My suggestion is just a small tweak to the system. Innovations can come in small bits.


                    Originally posted by ECG
                    In which way is the mute system not a bad idea though?
                    It works. I did banned people who are abusive, abandon at start and such and they were banned (if I trust Valve's popup)
                    But I was also at the other end of the stick too when I played badly (not intentionally and was apologetic) and banned because we lost and my team's carry called the opposing team to ban me too.

                    There are too many threads with extreme views swinging both ways.

                    For me, it just need tweaking. Very much like how Icefrog tweaks. Every major patch release we get brickloads of "OMG OP HERO!!" rants then the smaller tweaks come in to balance things out. Heck, Valve please hire Icefrog to tweak your mute system. I am sure he will do a better job.
                    Last edited by mr_9sky; 06-25-2013, 03:52 AM.
                    COMMUNITY REGULATED MUTE SYSTEM (CRMS) A Simple Idea with Massive Results
                    UNOFFICIAL DASHBOARD POLL Dashboard - OLD vs NEW
                    DOTA2 Items ICON SET Design Comparison CHART - Icon Cheat Sheet
                    POLL: HEALTH BAR at TOP BAR? - Add health bar to top bar Valve!
                    True Sight Indicator like dota1 - What happened to the true sight symbol?!?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mr_9sky View Post
                      It works. I did banned people who are abusive, abandon at start and such and they were banned (if I trust Valve's popup)
                      But I was also at the other end of the stick too when I played badly (not intentionally and was apologetic) and banned because we lost and my team's carry called the opposing team to ban me too.

                      There are too many threads with extreme views swinging both ways.
                      Could you please not snip quotes when responding to people? The system doesn't work better in any way, shape or form (with the one tiny exception I mentioned earlier) than the manual muting function which has been present for years.

                      Originally posted by mr_9sky View Post
                      For me, it just need tweaking. Very much like how Icefrog tweaks. Every major patch release we get brickloads of "OMG OP HERO!!" rants then the smaller tweaks come in to balance things out. Heck, Valve please hire Icefrog to tweak your mute system. I am sure he will do a better job.
                      A new-born cockroach could do a better job.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ECG View Post
                        Could you please not snip quotes when responding to people? The system doesn't work better in any way, shape or form (with the one tiny exception I mentioned earlier) than the manual muting function which has been present for years.



                        A new-born cockroach could do a better job.
                        Agree. Seems like we are on the same page! I use the manual muting for people who sing in the mic and blast loud music too.
                        COMMUNITY REGULATED MUTE SYSTEM (CRMS) A Simple Idea with Massive Results
                        UNOFFICIAL DASHBOARD POLL Dashboard - OLD vs NEW
                        DOTA2 Items ICON SET Design Comparison CHART - Icon Cheat Sheet
                        POLL: HEALTH BAR at TOP BAR? - Add health bar to top bar Valve!
                        True Sight Indicator like dota1 - What happened to the true sight symbol?!?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I am tempted to call it SCRIMS now lol. Simple Community Regulated In-game Mute System
                          COMMUNITY REGULATED MUTE SYSTEM (CRMS) A Simple Idea with Massive Results
                          UNOFFICIAL DASHBOARD POLL Dashboard - OLD vs NEW
                          DOTA2 Items ICON SET Design Comparison CHART - Icon Cheat Sheet
                          POLL: HEALTH BAR at TOP BAR? - Add health bar to top bar Valve!
                          True Sight Indicator like dota1 - What happened to the true sight symbol?!?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mr_9sky View Post
                            Agree. Seems like we are on the same page! I use the manual muting for people who sing in the mic and blast loud music too.
                            To make that clear, I wasn't trying to antagonize. I like your suggestion much better than the current system and you seem to have put a decent amount of thought into it, I just think that automatically muting players of a game based on teamwork is an inherently and utterly flawed notion.

                            How about finally rewarding commendations instead like it has been promised several times in the past? Give players a small BP or drop rate boost for every commendation they receive, and fancy profile frames or the like for certain milestones. Like you said, positive encouragement/reinforcement is key.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ECG View Post
                              I just think that automatically muting players of a game based on teamwork is an inherently and utterly flawed notion.
                              +1
                              Make a NON automated report system.
                              I would rather wait 10 minutes for a balanced, fun and exciting match that will last 1+ hours. Than wait 10 seconds for a poorly balanced crapmatch that will end in 30- minutes
                              Valve, How I'm I supposed to respect certain boundaries to prevent a mute if I dont know them because they are different for each and every person on each and every game I play?
                              The only type of player that dislikes having his stats public are the players that suck and cheaters

                              Comment

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