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If you choose to Solo Queue, matchmaking will punish you

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Craig View Post
    3) Get alternate accounts.
    4) Limit your usage to one or two games per day per account.
    that signature haha, i have more levels in my dota profile then you have in all your 100 accounts, 270 is my lvl :P

    Comment


    • #17
      solo mm rly broken
      This Game Full of Bugs But We Have Many Hats.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Paranoia14 View Post
        Now Craig, I know for some reason, you love defending this joke of a matchmaking every single post I see you on. I'd like an explanation for this then, I won three in a row, more stomps than wins. Immediate next game, get paired with retards (this happened 3 games in a row) Two of those games, I had players who had absolutely no clue about their roles and the other game I had players dc'ing all the bloody time in my team almost made me wonder whether I was in Low Priority. I still did alright in those games in terms of my K/D/A or team contribution if I was the support. Yet again, 4th game paired with clueless players, luckily my carry was good and an eventual base race won it, now the 5th game another feeder fed the enemy carry 13 times in the first 30 minutes oh and yet another dc in the game. Is it really that hard to be able to play this game without having a 3-4 man party every dam game? How the hell do they expect people to get into Very High if they keep ruining every single game when you start to win?

        PS: All the matches I am referring to are me being solo on the regular mm queue.

        I'll post screenshots once the dam game is up again.
        So you're playing at a low skill level to be matched with poor players, but the enemy has them too. You just notice them on your team when you lose, but not on the enemy team. If you're any better than them, then you should be able to win those games. Your games will be full of players that don't know all the heroes and items.

        Don't tell me it's not possible to win your way into Very High. I've done it on 11 different accounts. It's not easy, but you can do it if you know what you're doing.

        I've played with players of all different skill levels and what I find is that weak players tend to look for fault in teammates more than strong players. I've been raged at by literally 100's of weak players. Strong players, more frequently are accustomed to learning from a game and use what they've learned to try to ensure that it doesn't happen again.
        Last edited by Craig; 07-16-2013, 06:27 AM.
        To avoid LPQ:

        Don't draw attention to yourself
        Don't use voice or chat except for 'ss'
        Mute all at lvl 1
        Only play in parties
        Get alternate accounts
        Limit your usage to one or two games per day per account
        Don't play too well
        Don't play on Sunday or Monday
        Wait until the developers reset LPQ status

        If you're getting matched with trolls or feeders:

        You may have been placed in a hidden pool. There is no known way out of this, apart from moving to a different account.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Craig View Post
          If you've gone back to using Find Match rather than Find Solo Match, then you could get put into a game where there's a big spread of skill between members of a party.

          Try this example. You have 2 players: one in the top 1% and one on the bottom 1%, both in a party together. They hit Find Match. Who else should play in their match?
          I actually think it is the responsibility of the more experienced player in this situation to teach the new player. I have an old clan mate that has been learning to play. I made a smurf account to help him, but it was actually rubbish, ironically, because everyone was smurfs. So he joined me on my main account, and, up until recently, was great. He either supported me while I played carry, or visa versa.
          We are Legion.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Craig View Post
            So you're playing at a low skill level to be matched with poor players, but the enemy has them too. You just notice them on your team when you lose, but not on the enemy team. If you're any better than them, then you should be able to win those games. Your games will be full of players that don't know all the heroes and items.

            Don't tell me it's not possible to win your way into Very High. I've done it on 11 different accounts. It's not easy, but you can do it if you know what you're doing.

            I've played with players of all different skill levels and what I find is that weak players tend to look for fault in teammates more than strong players. I've been raged at by literally 100's of weak players. Strong players, more frequently are accustomed to learning from a game and use what they've learned to try to ensure that it doesn't happen again.
            You do realize that when 2 out of 3 lanes, worse so, when one of them is mid and other is the enemy carry's, fail in the first 10 minutes. You can't do shit in the game no matter how good you are and no it isn't possible to win your way up. Because as soon as you start to, Valve screw you over. You seem to be quite an ardent Valve fan from every post of yours that I've seen.
            And, weak players tend to look for faults?? Just one of those games I was talking about, had a pudge who fed Slark 4 times in lane, with a first blood too. Then he finally had enough money and gets a shadow blade at 35 mins, still not blaming him. THEN, he goes into the 5 man enemy team near the tower invis and ults. He chose to not ult the only stunner they had in VS and he did this at 5 towers. Sure, I can't fault that!!
            Last edited by Paranoia14; 07-16-2013, 10:58 AM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Paranoia14 View Post
              You do realize that when 2 out of 3 lanes, worse so, when one of them is mid and other is the enemy carry's, fail in the first 10 minutes. You can't do shit in the game no matter how good you are and no it isn't possible to win your way up. Because as soon as you start to, Valve screw you over. You seem to be quite an ardent Valve fan from every post of yours that I've seen.
              And, weak players tend to look for faults?? Just one of those games I was talking about, had a pudge who fed Slark 4 times in lane, with a first blood too. Then he finally had enough money and gets a shadow blade at 35 mins, still not blaming him. THEN, he goes into the 5 man enemy team near the tower invis and ults. He chose to not ult the only stunner they had in VS and he did this at 5 towers. Sure, I can't fault that!!
              Not true.

              If you only ever stay in one lane for the first 10 mins of every match, then you definitely can learn to have a much more influential role in your matches. It's also possible to kill or chase out the enemies in your lane, within the first 10 mins forcing the other enemies to port to defend the tower.

              Neverthless, even if your statement was correct and you win your lane 100% of the time and the other lanes are 50:50 you have the following probabilities.

              0% of 0 lanes won
              25% of 1 lane won
              50% of 2 lanes won
              25% of 3 lanes won

              Already you're at an advantage in 75% of games after 10 mins. Good odds right?

              I'll leave the discussion about "what I am" for another time, but blaming Valve for your poor performance is, as your username suggests, paranoia.
              Last edited by Craig; 07-16-2013, 11:10 AM.
              To avoid LPQ:

              Don't draw attention to yourself
              Don't use voice or chat except for 'ss'
              Mute all at lvl 1
              Only play in parties
              Get alternate accounts
              Limit your usage to one or two games per day per account
              Don't play too well
              Don't play on Sunday or Monday
              Wait until the developers reset LPQ status

              If you're getting matched with trolls or feeders:

              You may have been placed in a hidden pool. There is no known way out of this, apart from moving to a different account.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Paranoia14 View Post
                Now Craig, I know for some reason, you love defending this joke of a matchmaking every single post I see you on. I'd like an explanation for this then, I won three in a row, more stomps than wins. Immediate next game, get paired with retards (this happened 3 games in a row) Two of those games, I had players who had absolutely no clue about their roles and the other game I had players dc'ing all the bloody time in my team almost made me wonder whether I was in Low Priority. I still did alright in those games in terms of my K/D/A or team contribution if I was the support. Yet again, 4th game paired with clueless players, luckily my carry was good and an eventual base race won it, now the 5th game another feeder fed the enemy carry 13 times in the first 30 minutes oh and yet another dc in the game. Is it really that hard to be able to play this game without having a 3-4 man party every dam game? How the hell do they expect people to get into Very High if they keep ruining every single game when you start to win?

                PS: All the matches I am referring to are me being solo on the regular mm queue.

                I'll post screenshots once the dam game is up again.
                My experience is different.
                And I would say why you get matched up like that can be due to randomness... (also some psychology that it becomes true cause you want it / feel like it should be, thus ignoring the games that doesn't follow this pattern)
                Ofcourse that's not the answer you want, but, regardless.
                If it was as you said... everyone would experience that, but it's not.

                Thus something else must be at play.
                I highly doubt the matchmaking selects some people it does this with while being "proper" towards others.

                In short:
                You perception of how it "really" is/works, isn't necessary reality.
                Last edited by Kumori; 07-16-2013, 11:26 AM.
                つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Solo Queue

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Craig View Post
                  Not true.

                  If you only ever stay in one lane for the first 10 mins of every match, then you definitely can learn to have a much more influential role in your matches. It's also possible to kill or chase out the enemies in your lane, within the first 10 mins forcing the other enemies to port to defend the tower.

                  Neverthless, even if your statement was correct and you win your lane 100% of the time and the other lanes are 50:50 you have the following probabilities.

                  0% of 0 lanes won
                  25% of 1 lane won
                  50% of 2 lanes won
                  25% of 3 lanes won

                  Already you're at an advantage in 75% of games after 10 mins. Good odds right?

                  I'll leave the discussion about "what I am" for another time, but blaming Valve for your poor performance is, as your username suggests, paranoia.

                  I never said I win my lane. But I definitely play it safe enough when I know I'm against two stunners. I would like to be paired with people who understand that and don't go in rushing to feed. A few games back again, I was PL, farming up my lane, got a diffu in around 20 minutes with tranquils, not the best time since there was constant lane harass and my lane partner was autoattacking creeps but here's where it gets worse. I had a QoP who lost terribly to nevermore mid. He had shadowblade, treads and aquila at around 12 minutes, Slardar on the enemy team was fed too and he had armlet, treads at around the same time sf had his items. And a blink pretty much after. I had 1/1/1 up until that time.
                  Anyway like I said, you'll defend Valve no matter what and believe that people try to 'blame' the trash matchmaking.


                  Originally posted by Kumori View Post
                  My experience is different.
                  And I would say why you get matched up like that can be due to randomness... (also some psychology that it becomes true cause you want it / feel like it should be, thus ignoring the games that doesn't follow this pattern)
                  Ofcourse that's not the answer you want, but, regardless.
                  If it was as you said... everyone would experience that, but it's not.

                  Thus something else must be at play.
                  I highly doubt the matchmaking selects some people it does this with while being "proper" towards others.

                  In short:
                  You perception of how it "really" is/works, isn't necessary reality.
                  I'm not saying it targets me or stuff like that. There have been games I was matched with brilliant team mates but I've noticed that as soon as I get on a streak, bam - feeds all over on my team.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I'm not saying it targets me or stuff like that. There have been games I was matched with brilliant team mates but I've noticed that as soon as I get on a streak, bam - feeds all over on my team.
                    After rain comes sunshine and vice versa.
                    But same with the weather, you don't get punished with rain after having sun... it's just that it will rain at some point and it will be sunny before it.
                    つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Solo Queue

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Welp, tried solo matchmaking again.

                      Got matched with a guy with 20 wins.

                      He went 9/3 and we destroyed the other team. I still won't do it again, but yea.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Paranoia14 View Post
                        I never said I win my lane. But I definitely play it safe enough when I know I'm against two stunners. I would like to be paired with people who understand that and don't go in rushing to feed. A few games back again, I was PL, farming up my lane, got a diffu in around 20 minutes with tranquils, not the best time since there was constant lane harass and my lane partner was autoattacking creeps but here's where it gets worse. I had a QoP who lost terribly to nevermore mid. He had shadowblade, treads and aquila at around 12 minutes, Slardar on the enemy team was fed too and he had armlet, treads at around the same time sf had his items. And a blink pretty much after. I had 1/1/1 up until that time.
                        Anyway like I said, you'll defend Valve no matter what and believe that people try to 'blame' the trash matchmaking.




                        I'm not saying it targets me or stuff like that. There have been games I was matched with brilliant team mates but I've noticed that as soon as I get on a streak, bam - feeds all over on my team.
                        It's not about defending Valve. It's about correcting misconceptions so that this forum may generate some useful ideas which can filter into the game. It probably happens a lot more than you realise.

                        So you play safe more than many of the players at your level, but you're not turning it into victories any more often than they are. It's likely that you're just as effective as them, but in different ways, but you notice their failings, but not your own, leaving you frustrated and unable to improve your win ratio. You may even understand more theory than some of the players that you're playing with, but if you're not putting it into practice and winning games with it then there is much more you can do.

                        Regarding your PL build. You should take a Soul Ring on PL immediately after Tranquil Boots. You can get it within 3 mins and it gives you an enormous amount regen, harass and escape potential in early game, which keeps you in the farm for a lot longer. Diffusal can follow at around 11 mins, if it goes well, at 400 gpm. Obviously if you can't keep the enemy from harassing you then it will take longer and PL does benefit a lot from lane support, but the Soul Ring will give you a lot more self sufficiency, which is very useful when you can't rely on your teammates to look after you to a high standard. If you're playing as part of a strong tri-lane, then you might consider skipping it, if you want to get the Diffusal Blade in under 10 mins.

                        SF is one of those heroes that can win mid and snowball to dominate a game. He should be ganked regularly to keep his soul count down from very early, certainly well before the 10 minute mark! Although it wouldn't usually fall to PL to do it, he is more than capable of it.
                        Last edited by Craig; 07-16-2013, 04:49 PM.
                        To avoid LPQ:

                        Don't draw attention to yourself
                        Don't use voice or chat except for 'ss'
                        Mute all at lvl 1
                        Only play in parties
                        Get alternate accounts
                        Limit your usage to one or two games per day per account
                        Don't play too well
                        Don't play on Sunday or Monday
                        Wait until the developers reset LPQ status

                        If you're getting matched with trolls or feeders:

                        You may have been placed in a hidden pool. There is no known way out of this, apart from moving to a different account.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Craig View Post
                          So you're playing at a low skill level to be matched with poor players, but the enemy has them too. You just notice them on your team when you lose, but not on the enemy team. If you're any better than them, then you should be able to win those games. Your games will be full of players that don't know all the heroes and items.

                          Don't tell me it's not possible to win your way into Very High. I've done it on 11 different accounts. It's not easy, but you can do it if you know what you're doing.

                          I've played with players of all different skill levels and what I find is that weak players tend to look for fault in teammates more than strong players. I've been raged at by literally 100's of weak players. Strong players, more frequently are accustomed to learning from a game and use what they've learned to try to ensure that it doesn't happen again.
                          Ya this is true in theory. It really depends on hero selection though and sometimes you'll have a couple new players that race to pick a bunch of carries while the other teams' maybe take some supports instead. It's those situations where I find you get stomped the most. I mean I'll be the first to admit I'm a pretty average player, and I don't think I'm good enough to consistently pick heroes that can take over games by themselves. It's ridiculous for the system to expect me to do that though. I couldn't care less whether I'm winning or losing, all I care about is that I'm getting decent games where one team doesn't outscore the other 50-10 and the game ends in ~25 minutes. I'd much rather wait for 10-15 minutes when I search for games so I can get a quality one rather than finding games in <3 minutes (lately I've been finding games in <30 seconds, they've all been awful).

                          Sorry, I'm pretty agitated with my recent string of matches so I had to go rant somewhere.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Valves idea of balanced Match making:
                            1:Try and make everyone have 50% win rate.
                            2:If they have over 50% win rate, give them shit teammates.
                            3:If they have under 50% win rate, give them dendi.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Craig View Post
                              It's not about defending Valve. It's about correcting misconceptions so that this forum may generate some useful ideas which can filter into the game. It probably happens a lot more than you realise.

                              So you play safe more than many of the players at your level, but you're not turning it into victories any more often than they are. It's likely that you're just as effective as them, but in different ways, but you notice their failings, but not your own, leaving you frustrated and unable to improve your win ratio. You may even understand more theory than some of the players that you're playing with, but if you're not putting it into practice and winning games with it then there is much more you can do.

                              Regarding your PL build. You should take a Soul Ring on PL immediately after Tranquil Boots. You can get it within 3 mins and it gives you an enormous amount regen, harass and escape potential in early game, which keeps you in the farm for a lot longer. Diffusal can follow at around 11 mins, if it goes well, at 400 gpm. Obviously if you can't keep the enemy from harassing you then it will take longer and PL does benefit a lot from lane support, but the Soul Ring will give you a lot more self sufficiency, which is very useful when you can't rely on your teammates to look after you to a high standard. If you're playing as part of a strong tri-lane, then you might consider skipping it, if you want to get the Diffusal Blade in under 10 mins.

                              SF is one of those heroes that can win mid and snowball to dominate a game. He should be ganked regularly to keep his soul count down from very early, certainly well before the 10 minute mark! Although it wouldn't usually fall to PL to do it, he is more than capable of it.
                              I chose to not go for a soul ring and I'm really glad about it looking back. Slardar was trying to gank me as often as I can remember. Had I gone for soul ring first my diffu would have been pushed further away and I wouldn't have been able to purge amplify damage hence not able to farm up or use it on warlock's golems, which btw, he had four of within 30 minutes. It is interesting to note how you had a problem with the build but not the idiotic support who pushed my lane away through auto attacks despite me begging him not to or the QoP who maxed shadow strike at level 7. Everytime I've seen a QoP vs SF matchup, the QoP alone can zone him completely out with a few kills too but instead he got 3 solo kills on her.
                              I will pretend you never said PL 'could' go in to gank the SF before 10 minutes.
                              These aren't misconceptions, these are facts that people have experienced and it's not just a few and of course I notice when I screw up but I make sure I don't do it game after game. All I ask is to be matched with players who have understanding of their own heroes as well as the opponents at least. Another game, I was on the off lane, asked my TA plenty of times to come with me to gank the naix who was farming in the jungle uninterrupted or at least lay traps there so I may be able to snipe him off, she didn't nor did any other player on my team wish to gank him. I solo killed him twice early on but after that, once he got more points in rage and lifesteal and a spirit breaker who'd charge into me as soon as I'd hook him, I couldn't do much solo. TA was busy farming up neutrals on our side and naix eventually snowballed like hell.

                              Originally posted by mdobbs View Post
                              Ya this is true in theory. It really depends on hero selection though and sometimes you'll have a couple new players that race to pick a bunch of carries while the other teams' maybe take some supports instead. It's those situations where I find you get stomped the most. I mean I'll be the first to admit I'm a pretty average player, and I don't think I'm good enough to consistently pick heroes that can take over games by themselves. It's ridiculous for the system to expect me to do that though. I couldn't care less whether I'm winning or losing, all I care about is that I'm getting decent games where one team doesn't outscore the other 50-10 and the game ends in ~25 minutes. I'd much rather wait for 10-15 minutes when I search for games so I can get a quality one rather than finding games in <3 minutes (lately I've been finding games in <30 seconds, they've all been awful).

                              Sorry, I'm pretty agitated with my recent string of matches so I had to go rant somewhere.
                              That's exactly my problem and the only reason I got on to the forum. Just to give proof about the ridiculous mm but Valve doesn't really give a rat's ass. They have more cosmetics to worry about. I am willing to wait for 10-15 minutes too as long as I get players who can think a little bit.

                              Originally posted by Clup View Post
                              Valves idea of balanced Match making:
                              1:Try and make everyone have 50% win rate.
                              2:If they have over 50% win rate, give them shit teammates.
                              3:If they have under 50% win rate, give them dendi.
                              hahhahaa. But Craig here, will tell you, it isn't Valve's fault that they make sure you remain in the 50% win rate, it's YOURS that your teammates are clueless and if you are at all accomplished you should be able to 1 v 5 and win the game....
                              From what I've seen, if you really want to go above 50%, you need to have your good own 5 man stack, probably even a tryharding one at that.
                              Last edited by Paranoia14; 07-17-2013, 01:56 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Ah pro Craig, here's another one for you, with Screenshots:





                                My QoP goes for a DAGON when the mid bs picks up a blademail. She uses her nukes on him and autodies. Tell me I don't try helping my piece of shit team. Or go ahead and fault my build fanboy, go for it. I was a bloody solo off lane PA with a good laning partner in Abaddon who did autoattack at first but then stopped when I requested him to. We were against a drow and lion and shut down drow's farm with kills very early. Then BS got fat all over the map, sniper got fat at the top lane, I went top to help out, stopped Sniper's dominating streak, in the mean time drow had enough space to farm up and bs was still roaming picking of my QoP who btw not once tried to tp out when ruptured. I won't fault warlock for his innumerable deaths since he is relatively squishy and once mid BS is fed, warlock can barely last against him.
                                And mind you, the QoP had a great start, she still chose to rush dagon even when I called the blademail coming in on BS.

                                And yes I WILL rage, because I had a completely good start ruined because of retarded plays on my side. SO **** YOU VALVE!
                                Last edited by Paranoia14; 07-17-2013, 03:19 AM.

                                Comment

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