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RE: Luna's Nova

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Duplosion View Post
    Legion Commander doesn't have anything to do with copyrights. Some characters have had differences from Dota 1 when initially being imported, such as Windrunner isn't a dark elf, Juggernaut isn't an orc, etc etc.
    this makes no sense, Windrunner never had the night elf model, she used the model of sylvanas before becoming undead, (practically the same thing this dota 1) and jugguernaut just put a mask and took his flag and cleared a bit its color

    which made no sense at legiom to change EVERYTHING, no small thing as they


    so I say, it makes no sense crying over change of mount

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by The4thSniporr View Post
      Panthers aren't copyrighted. Female warriors who use the moon as the source of their powers and ride on panthers, that's copyrighted.

      Besides, she's still riding a panther. Just a panther with a mane.
      Nope, that was Blizzard stealing from Dungeons and Dragons. THe same goes for 80% of Wc3 creatures.

      Originally posted by Hefaistus View Post
      This is exactly the attitude I don't want to see here. We don't have the full story, it's much more likely that Valve took the initiative themselves to differentiate more from the established Warcraft characters than Blizzard pressuring them into doing such.
      If I see any more pathetic statements like these, I will be taking action. Keep in mind that this thread is already on very thin ice - these kinds of threads are to be posted in the model feedback section, not the lore section.
      The change also relates to lore, as Nova is an integral part of her story.

      Also if it belongs in the model feedback section. Then why haven't you moved it there. Is that not part of your duty as a mod?
      Last edited by Crowfeather; 11-23-2013, 11:56 AM.
      Originally posted by Typhox
      Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
      Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

      Comment


      • #48
        Luna on a lion mount conflicts with the Dota 2 lore, and no one is "crying." As far as Sylvanas Windrunner goes, the skin and ears clearly indicate an elven heritage- which of course differs from Lyralei Windrunner of Dota 2.

        Also, Legion Commander isn't the only hero to have their gender changed within the game. Anyhow, a mod has already let you know in the past to avoid this discussion, it causing the locking of another topic very recently.

        Dota 1 lore and Dota 2 lore don't always coincide. Just look at this tree, there are some very large differences: http://bbs.replays.net/upload/200904...1579694223.jpg
        Last edited by Duplosion; 11-23-2013, 12:05 PM.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Duplosion View Post
          Luna on a lion mount conflicts with the Dota 2 lore, and no one is "crying." As far as Sylvanas Windrunner goes, the ears clearly indicate an elven heritage- which of course differs from Lyralei Windrunner of Dota 2. Also, Legion isn't the only hero to have their gender changed within the game.

          Dota 1 lore and Dota 2 lore don't always coincide. Just look at this tree: http://bbs.replays.net/upload/200904...1579694223.jpg
          the lore can be changed, once changed, can change again, simple, Now luna has a black lion different of dota 1, as you said need not coincide

          the windrunner has not changed much, lost the pointy ears, and now has hair show, a few small changes of this kind I wanted to see the legiom

          so I repeat, does not make sense to complain of such changes in dota 2
          Last edited by Siegfried; 11-23-2013, 12:08 PM.

          Comment


          • #50
            Incorrect. We are mainly talking about the existing Dota 2 lore and models being altered- this lore and these models having existed for nearly 3 years now inside of Dota 2.

            Comment


            • #51
              mean that just because it is old, can no longer change? I disagree
              *
              if it is the best for the game, is to move away from models of dota 1 is the best to be done

              Comment


              • #52
                People will whine about every dumbest little thing, won't they? Especially drawing comparisons and crying that something is NOT COPIED FROM WARCRAFT ENOUGH is just so utterly ridiculous. The lion looks super cool, noone says lions in the Dota universe must be male if they have a mane, the mane helps distinguish her mount from Mirana's weird battlecat thing. Problem solved. Deal with it and don't ruin a high-quality, beautiful remake of an old model for the rest of the community.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by ividyon View Post
                  People will whine about every dumbest little thing, won't they? Ad hominem attack Especially drawing comparisons and crying that something is NOT COPIED FROM WARCRAFT ENOUGH is just so utterly ridiculous. Strawman attack The lion looks super cool, noone says lions in the Dota universe must be male if they have a mane, the mane helps distinguish her mount from Mirana's weird battlecat thing. Your opinion Problem solved. Deal with it and don't ruin a high-quality, beautiful remake of an old model for the rest of the community.
                  And for your last line.

                  Look at the models. Sure, you will notice the new model is high-quality and beautiful, but look at the old model, it has more colors contrast and makes Luna look overall nicer.
                  The old Nova was a black Panther that contrasted nicely with Luna's white hair, light-blue suit and purplish saddle.
                  The new Nova does not have black, it is a totally blackish-bluish Lion and makes Luna look just like a mesh of blue-purple-blackcurrant with white hair. The mane also clips into the ground and front paws.

                  The community has never complained about how "bad" or "remake-worthy" Luna's mount is. The community, however, would always like a better quality model for Luna's mount, without changing the mount's inherent characteristics.

                  I do not understand why the bunch of you would suddenly jump into this Luna revert change thread with respect to lore and demand that the change is perfectly fine, when you guys do not even care that Luna was riding a panther in the first place.
                  Last edited by d.phoenixxx; 11-23-2013, 02:12 PM.
                  He's the hero this community deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt his identity, because he can take it, because he's not our hero. He's a silent buffer, a watchful nerfer. An IceFrog.

                  My Speedtest Result

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by d.phoenixxx View Post
                    Dear Hefaistus moderator,

                    I hope you will allow this thread to exist.
                    While I cannot speak for the rude actions of other anonymous posters, I hope you understand that this change is in some way related to Lore.

                    This is because Luna's voicelines have already been embedded into our minds and this is how we portray and associate Luna and Nova to be. This reason, coupled with the fact that Luna's mount, from Dota 1's inception, has always been a panther, a symbol for feminine prowess, makes for a very iconic identity of the heroine.

                    Thank you for your understanding.
                    Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
                    The change also relates to lore, as Nova is an integral part of her story.
                    Right. Allow me to shoot down one pesky statement that keeps popping up, one that also extends to cosmetic items: The mount change is not lore related. What does the lore say about Nova? Not a whole lot. Her name isn't even mentioned in any lore - only in the voicelines. So here's what is established by lore and voicelines: the mount was used by Selemene as a test for Luna (bio), she's a girl (voiceline), she's feline (bio), and she's named Nova (voiceline). That's it. DotA lore does not apply. Nowhere does it say that the mount was a panther, nowhere does it say that female felines can't have manes.
                    This visual change does not influence the lore, let alone contradict the lore in any way, shape, or form. Visual Design =/= Lore.

                    Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
                    Also if it belongs in the model feedback section. Then why haven't you moved it there. Is that not part of your duty as a mod?
                    The lore section is always a bit less strict than the other sections because of the naturally subjective nature of the lore. But if you wish I perform my duties, then sure, I'd be more than happy to move this to the appropriate section. The private one. Where you can't continue the discussion.
                    This is something people care a lot about, and I'm willing to allow a discussion on the matter, even if it's not lore related, provided that it remains mature. Unfortunately, I get constantly proven that people are not capable of that. As such, people need to be reminded on what the situation is concerning the thread.
                    Summary so far: this thread does not belong here, I'm allowing it for now, don't get too cocky. I am watching.
                    To keep these forums clean and friendly, please read and follow the forum rules.
                    Before making a new thread, be sure to have used search, as well as checking the stickies of the appropriate section.



                    Lore moderator.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Hefaistus View Post
                      I am watching.
                      Now i am scared :P

                      Originally posted by Phoenix.
                      2013: 10 heroes, 3 reworks, 4 events, hats, 1 arcana and TI
                      2014: 4 heroes, 2 events, 2 arcanas, hats, 1 rework and TI.
                      Lazyness. Not to mention the lack of bugfixes, and the amount of new ones with each new content added


                      Credits to Phoenix.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Hefaistus View Post
                        This is something people care a lot about, and I'm willing to allow a discussion on the matter, even if it's not lore related, provided that it remains mature. Unfortunately, I get constantly proven that people are not capable of that. As such, people need to be reminded on what the situation is concerning the thread.
                        Summary so far: this thread does not belong here, I'm allowing it for now, don't get too cocky. I am watching.
                        But Hefaistus, I hope you understand that the bulk of us are mature but there will always be some posters who will just flame, troll or type insensitive remarks.
                        He's the hero this community deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt his identity, because he can take it, because he's not our hero. He's a silent buffer, a watchful nerfer. An IceFrog.

                        My Speedtest Result

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Legion Commander View Post
                          Now i am scared :P


                          Originally posted by d.phoenixxx View Post
                          But Hefaistus, I hope you understand that the bulk of us are mature but there will always be some posters who will just flame, troll or type insensitive remarks.
                          I understand, and that's why I always dislike having to resort to such measures. I prefer keeping discussions open, but sometimes a discussion just draws too much negative behaviour to warrant for it to remain open. The gender debates are a prime example. They usually are fine for a few pages, and then it all goes down from there.
                          Hopefully my momentary presence here is enough to keep the thread from going down the same route.
                          To keep these forums clean and friendly, please read and follow the forum rules.
                          Before making a new thread, be sure to have used search, as well as checking the stickies of the appropriate section.



                          Lore moderator.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Hefaistus View Post
                            Right. Allow me to shoot down one pesky statement that keeps popping up, one that also extends to cosmetic items: The mount change is not lore related. What does the lore say about Nova? Not a whole lot. Her name isn't even mentioned in any lore - only in the voicelines.
                            Voice lines are of more importance than the Lore written by you (fan/volunteer moderator/ what ever title you wish/ assuming that you wrote it as you posted it) as opposed to being written by Valve. So Yes her name is Nova, and we must respect that until, Valve says otherwise.

                            So here's what is established by lore and voicelines: the mount was used by Selemene as a test for Luna (bio), she's a girl (voiceline), she's feline (bio), and she's named Nova (voiceline). That's it.
                            -->Feline "beast’s massive feline form sat in the open, attentive and waiting"
                            When have you ever seen a black Lion. Exactly you have not. This beast is not meant to be mythical, as it is "beast" not "monster". Therefore we can ascertain that it has to be a realistic looking animal. Panthers are Black so are fitting. Lions are not black so are not fitting.

                            DotA lore does not apply. Nowhere does it say that the mount was a panther, nowhere does it say that female felines can't have manes.
                            You do not get female lions with manes. This is blatantly a lion. You do not get black lions. Unless you are telling me that by this logic, that Valve could change the mount into this http://blacky-cat.deviantart.com/art...-Sky-337107722

                            As no where does it specifically state that the beast didn't have wings. Heck how about they make the Beast have 20 arms and 3 heads and 4 tails. Yet still call it a "beast (in an animal sense)" and a "feline".
                            Ofc these are exaggerations, but the point still stands.

                            This visual change does not influence the lore, let alone contradict the lore in any way, shape, or form. Visual Design =/= Lore.
                            Visual Design =/= lore. Okay okay, how about we turn the mount into a donkey. Visual Design =/= lore. Because that donkey wouldn't be lore breaking at all.

                            Even if it was a lion in the lore. Its a FEMALE therefore a mane should not exist....






                            The lore section is always a bit less strict than the other sections because of the naturally subjective nature of the lore. But if you wish I perform my duties, then sure, I'd be more than happy to move this to the appropriate section. The private one. Where you can't continue the discussion.
                            This is something people care a lot about, and I'm willing to allow a discussion on the matter, even if it's not lore related, provided that it remains mature. Unfortunately, I get constantly proven that people are not capable of that. As such, people need to be reminded on what the situation is concerning the thread.
                            Summary so far: this thread does not belong here, I'm allowing it for now, don't get too cocky. I am watching.
                            (You are asserting that this thread, does belong, because it does not fit your inherent beliefs on the topic it is debating. The whole idea of a debate is to help clarify/define or find a resolution to the original statement/problem, and to bring up suggestions of improvements which are befitting. Therefore it is senseless to assert that this debate is in invalid, simply because it does not conform with your preconceptions on the matter. This assertion goes against the whole point of a debate.)

                            It is bad practice to start a debate with someone. Then threaten them. I would advise you in further discussions not to threaten them, as this causes the following issues:

                            It hinders productivity of the discussion.
                            It undermines your argument and makes you look weak.
                            It makes you look like a despot.

                            --------------------------------

                            Basically to sum my points up

                            1. Nova is a feline more specifically a large cat. A realistic cat, an animal in the real world, not fantasy.
                            2. Nova is black in all models.
                            3. Nova in the new model has is a lion. The problem with this being not that its a lion, but that it has a MANE. Female lions do not have manes.
                            4. Furthermore to add to the last point, Nova is a black lion. Lions are not black they can never be black, they do not carry the melanistic gene. So it is impossible without GM
                            5. Just because the lore simply does not state something, doesn't mean that anything goes. There are many things implied by the lore, or more directly stated implicitly. Such as the fact that the "Beast" she is fighting within the lore, is a kin to her mount.


                            Anyway http://en.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comment...nas_new_mount/ raises all the same points I have made.
                            Last edited by Crowfeather; 11-23-2013, 03:26 PM.
                            Originally posted by Typhox
                            Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
                            Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Like i care for a F-ing animal that i barely see it in game.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by d.phoenixxx View Post
                                I do not understand why the bunch of you would suddenly jump into this Luna revert change thread with respect to lore and demand that the change is perfectly fine, when you guys do not even care that Luna was riding a panther in the first place.
                                Quite simple: in order to fight the illusion that a vocal minority's complaints about a perfectly fine change reflect the community's opinions. People who "don't care about the change" are obviously fine with it, since they're not taking it to the forums like you lot. And it doesn't take much thought to realize that negative opinions are much easier carried to forums and open places than positive ones, which, not being urgent, mostly remain hidden. The vast majority of Dota players I know and I talked about the patch changes love the lion, which makes Luna look far less cartoonish as it puts her mount in-line with her own very realistic depiction, rather than having her ride a manga battlecat with comically huge eyes and fangs.

                                The lion is fine. Keep it. Many others see it that way, and people throwing a fit in this thread are not a representation of the community as a whole.
                                Last edited by ividyon; 11-23-2013, 03:42 PM.

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