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RE: Luna's Nova

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  • #61
    i love the old luna model. setting lore and such aside.

    the old model had style, had beauty, had elegance, had awesomeness, she was just awesome.

    the new one is none of the above. and thats sad.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
      Voice lines are of more importance than the Lore written by you (fan/volunteer moderator/ what ever title you wish) as opposed to being written by Valve. So Yes her name is Nova, and we must respect that until, Valve says otherwise.
      I don't know what lore you think I am referring to, but I am referring to the official lore from Valve, as found in the game, and in the Heropedia. I also mentioned that Nova is indeed her name, I merely stated that her name is not stated in the official lore from Valve, merely in Luna's voicelines.

      Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
      -->Feline "beastís massive feline form sat in the open, attentive and waiting"
      When have you ever seen a black Lion. Exactly you have not. This beast is not meant to be mythical, as it is "beast" not "monster". Therefore we can ascertain that it has to be a realistic looking animal. Panthers are Black so are fitting. Lions are not black so are not fitting.
      When have you seen a panther with blue fur on its tail and purple glowing eyes? You don't get to pull the 'realistic looking' -card when your precious panther was severely lacking in that department as well.
      Furthermore, there have been reports of black lions in the 19th century. There was also a lion in the Glasgow Zoo during the 80's that had a genetic defective that gave him a black mane.

      Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
      You do not get female lions with manes. This is blatantly a lion. You do not get black lions. Unless you are telling me that by this logic, that Valve could change the mount into this http://blacky-cat.deviantart.com/art...-Sky-337107722

      As no where does it specifically state that the beast didn't have wings. Heck how about they make the Beast have 20 arms and 3 heads and 4 tails. Yet still call it a "beast (in an animal sense)" and a "feline".
      Ofc these are exaggerations, but the point still stands.
      Actually, Lionesses can have manes:
      Rare Maned Lionesses Explained.
      Momboís Maned Lionesses.

      And yes, Valve can indeed use the mount into the one you posted - the lore merely says that Nova is a feline. Similarly, Cerberus is still considered a dog, despite having three heads. Besides, we often have multi-headed animals in real life as well. We still consider a two headed sheep a sheep, a two headed snake a snake, etcetera.

      Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
      Visual Design =/= lore. Okay okay, how about we turn the mount into a donkey. Visual Design =/= lore. Because that donkey wouldn't be lore breaking at all.

      Even if it was a lion in the lore. Its a FEMALE therefore a mane should not exist....
      Donkey's are feline these days?
      Besides, you are taking my visual design =/= lore in the wrong way. it indicates that the mount's visual design does not matter a large degree, as long as it remains recognizable as a feline. Is Luna's mount a feline? Obviously so.

      Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
      It is bad practice to start a debate with someone. Then threaten them. I would advise you in further discussions not to threaten them, as this causes the following issues:

      It hinders productivity of the discussion.
      It undermines your argument and makes you look weak.
      It makes you look like a despot.
      And here's my advise in further discussions when mods get involved: don't get cocky and try to challenge the Mod into taking action when it's obvious such action would hinder you more.
      To keep these forums clean and friendly, please read and follow the forum rules.
      Before making a new thread, be sure to have used search, as well as checking the stickies of the appropriate section.



      Lore moderator.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Hefaistus View Post
        I don't know what lore you think I am referring to, but I am referring to the official lore from Valve, as found in the game, and in the Heropedia. I also mentioned that Nova is indeed her name, I merely stated that her name is not stated in the official lore from Valve, merely in Luna's voicelines.
        I said "you posted" obviously the lore in the thread you posted. Derp. Anyway my point still stands.


        When have you seen a panther with blue fur on its tail and purple glowing eyes? You don't get to pull the 'realistic looking' -card when your precious panther was severely lacking in that department as well.
        Furthermore, there have been reports of black lions in the 19th century. There was also a lion in the Glasgow Zoo during the 80's that had a genetic defective that gave him a black mane.
        Only reports, they don't actually exist. The pictures showing such things are manipulated and proven to be a hoax. http://karlshuker.blogspot.co.uk/201...anism-and.html
        Effectively for it to happen the lion would have to live its whole life in the dark.


        Actually, Lionesses can have manes:
        Rare Maned Lionesses Explained.
        Momboís Maned Lionesses.
        I know they can, the point that is a very rare condition. It is not something you typically see. Therefore it is considered to not the norm......
        Lionesses do not have manes, is a perfectly fine generalization.

        And yes, Valve can indeed use the mount into the one you posted - the lore merely says that Nova is a feline. Similarly, Cerberus is still considered a dog, despite having three heads. Besides, we often have multi-headed animals in real life as well. We still consider a two headed sheep a sheep, a two headed snake a snake, etcetera
        .
        This ignores all my points. Again the "lore says its merely feline", so you would agree with a 3 headed lion with five hundred legs, demonic wings, demonic horns, and udders?


        Donkey's are feline these days?
        Besides, you are taking my visual design =/= lore in the wrong way. it indicates that the mount's visual design does not matter a large degree, as long as it remains recognizable as a feline. Is Luna's mount a feline? Obviously so.
        How about a feline that looks almost exactly like a donkey?


        And here's my advise in further discussions when mods get involved: don't get cocky and try to challenge the Mod into taking action when it's obvious such action would hinder you more.
        And this is the point where I will no longer reply simply for the benefit of my own safety, so that I don't get abused. You have now proven by this statement, you cannot argue in a fair or mannered way. You use the privilege that you were given, in a dishonorable and despotic manner.
        You refuse to dispute in an even manner and prefer to push the fact that you are privileged in the belief that makes you "better than me". I would say you would have the view that "police" are better than citizens. In fact we are all and should be treated equally. I am challenging a mod, this is a fair challenge. Just because you re a volunteer moderator does not mean having a debate with you should be impossible.

        Even as a moderator you are my equal. You have more responsibility than me towards this forum, however you are equal to me when debating. It is not your position which dictates the answer (in a debate), it is your ability to argue. Simply put you instead of creating a coherent debate. Prefer to threat with power.

        I have not broken any forum rules, and if you still think that even a threat of "action" is necessary, then I believe you to have misunderstood me. You take a debate personally. This is sad. Debates are to ensure progress, not to massage the victors ego.
        Last edited by Crowfeather; 11-23-2013, 04:56 PM.
        Originally posted by Typhox
        Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
        Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

        Comment


        • #64
          so people, you have no more, the argument of "lore" to use, what will be next?

          a small change, the exchange of a black cat, by another cat, need all this mobilization?

          as I recall, said that dota 2 is not the same thing as dota1, and worse things can change

          I still hope to change the color of the ogre mage not to be as same as dota1

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
            I know they can, the point that is a very rare condition. It is not something you typically see. Therefore it is considered to not the norm......
            Lionesses do not have manes, is a perfectly fine generalization.
            "I know there are lionesses with manes, but I'm going to say they don't exist anyway. Even now that I've been proven wrong, I'm going to say they don't exist."
            And with that I'm no longer going to bother continuing this discussion.

            Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
            And this is the point where I will no longer reply simply for the benefit of my own safety, so that I don't get abused. You have now proven by this statement, you cannot argue in a fair or mannered way. You use the privilege that you were given, in a dishonorable and despotic manner.
            You refuse to dispute in an even manner and prefer to push the fact that you are privileged in the belief that makes you "better than me". I would say you would have the view that "police" are better than citizens. In fact we are all and should be treated equally. I am challenging a mod, this is a fair challenge. Just because you re a volunteer moderator does not mean having a debate with you should be impossible.

            Even as a moderator you are my equal. You have more responsibility than me towards this forum, however you are equal to me when debating. It is not your position which dictates the answer (in a debate), it is your ability to argue. Simply put you instead of creating a coherent debate. Prefer to threat with power.

            I have not broken any forum rules, and if you still think that even a threat of "action" is necessary, then I believe you to have misunderstood me. You take a debate personally. This is sad. Debates are to ensure progress, not to massage the victors ego.
            What the hell are you even on about? I am threatening you? Using my position to quell any discussion that is not advantageous to me? I was talking about the thread in general. I was warning that if people can't go into a discussion without going "fuck blizzard" or anything like that, that then the thread would be shut down. I was not talking about the statement 'This is against the lore'. It may be a very gross misconception, but it was not reason to close anything.
            I told people that this thread should not even be here, but that I was allowing it because there otherwise would not be a discussion. You then start telling me I should do my job as a moderator. Me withholding my abilities to shut down threads or move them to where you can't even see them, even after you specifically said I should use them, is what kept this thread running.

            Quelling a supposedly losing discussion by threat of power, what a bloody joke. It's a good idea of you to stop replying, cause holy hell, you have seriously pissed me off with that last statement. I hadn't considered taking any kind of action against you once, because it was just a minor discussion. Quit acting as though you were some kind of victim of the system.
            To keep these forums clean and friendly, please read and follow the forum rules.
            Before making a new thread, be sure to have used search, as well as checking the stickies of the appropriate section.



            Lore moderator.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Hefaistus View Post
              "I know there are lionesses with manes, but I'm going to say they don't exist anyway. Even now that I've been proven wrong, I'm going to say they don't exist."
              And with that I'm no longer going to bother continuing this discussion.



              What the hell are you even on about? I am threatening you? Using my position to quell any discussion that is not advantageous to me? I was talking about the thread in general. I was warning that if people can't go into a discussion without going "fuck blizzard" or anything like that, that then the thread would be shut down. I was not talking about the statement 'This is against the lore'. It may be a very gross misconception, but it was not reason to close anything.
              I told people that this thread should not even be here, but that I was allowing it because there otherwise would not be a discussion. You then start telling me I should do my job as a moderator. Me withholding my abilities to shut down threads or move them to where you can't even see them, even after you specifically said I should use them, is what kept this thread running.

              Quelling a supposedly losing discussion by threat of power, what a bloody joke. It's a good idea of you to stop replying, cause holy hell, you have seriously pissed me off with that last statement. I hadn't considered taking any kind of action against you once, because it was just a minor discussion. Quit acting as though you were some kind of victim of the system.
              Well if you are not directly threatening me, then I am on safe ground.

              Now the part I am confused about, is
              And here's my advise in further discussions when mods get involved: don't get cocky and try to challenge the Mod into taking action when it's obvious such action would hinder you more.
              It's a good idea of you to stop replying, cause holy hell, you have seriously pissed me off with that last statement
              -->?So this wasn't a threat? "action would hinder you more"
              This is all kind of worrying.

              If you are sure that if we continue with a mannered debate, that you won't randomly abuse me, then I would be happy to proceed, if you are willing also.

              "I know there are lionesses with manes, but I'm going to say they don't exist anyway. Even now that I've been proven wrong, I'm going to say they don't exist."
              From the source you gave it pretty much states "Lionesses with manes" are caused from Mutation "Disruption of Embryo-Exposure to testosterone"

              Also you never addressed my other points.
              Originally posted by Typhox
              Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
              Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
                When have you ever seen a black Lion. Exactly you have not. This beast is not meant to be mythical, as it is "beast" not "monster". Therefore we can ascertain that it has to be a realistic looking animal. Panthers are Black so are fitting. Lions are not black so are not fitting.
                As melanism is proven-to-exist condition in all Panthera species except lions, it doesn't take an exceptionally imaginative individual to accept a black one. That doesn't make it look any.less.feline.

                And being part of one's mythology doesn't exactly contradict the possibility of verifiable existence - what about leucistic deers which are common part of Celtic mythology or chinese white pheomelanin-lackin tigers which are actually pretty common nowadays due to inbreeding in captivity (interfamily one - genetic disorders - yaaaay humans!).

                Seems to me like you're grasping at straws just to have your way. I accept that mane is quite a damage to Nova's femininity, but again, this is goddamn fantasy game. You are able to accept bat big enough to carry a person, but no so much a possibility of the mane of this one specific feline species being not a secondary sex characteristic exclusive for males? Manes' solemn evolutionary purpose is to make a male seemingly bigger and more intimidating. What if this species of feline is more matriarchal? The females are the head of the pride (if there's one) needed to put on a show when it comes to fight over control of it. FOR EXAMPLE

                It's not so hard to accept it and move on.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Manly Mao View Post
                  As melanism is proven-to-exist condition in all Panthera species except lions, it doesn't take an exceptionally imaginative individual to accept a black one. That doesn't make it look any.less.feline.

                  And being part of one's mythology doesn't exactly contradict the possibility of verifiable existence - what about leucistic deers which are common part of Celtic mythology or chinese white pheomelanin-lackin tigers which are actually pretty common nowadays due to inbreeding in captivity (interfamily one - genetic disorders - yaaaay humans!).

                  Seems to me like you're grasping at straws just to have your way. I accept that mane is quite a damage to Nova's femininity, but again, this is goddamn fantasy game. You are able to accept bat big enough to carry a person, but no so much a possibility of the mane of this one specific feline species being not a secondary sex characteristic exclusive for males? Manes' solemn evolutionary purpose is to make a male seemingly bigger and more intimidating. What if this species of feline is more matriarchal? The females are the head of the pride (if there's one) needed to put on a show when it comes to fight over control of it. FOR EXAMPLE

                  It's not so hard to accept it and move on.
                  The main problem is the mane. The black lion thing is just emphasized by the main, without the main it would like any other panther.
                  I am not clutching at straws. Also you say it foryouself Black lions don't exist. Also in the mythology it clearly states they are mythical beings. In the Luna Lore it references a beast a realistic creature.
                  Originally posted by Typhox
                  Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
                  Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
                    The main problem is the mane. The black lion thing is just emphasized by the main, without the main it would like any other panther.
                    I am not clutching at straws. Also you say it foryouself Black lions don't exist. Also in the mythology it clearly states they are mythical beings. In the Luna Lore it references a beast a realistic creature.
                    A realistic creature in unrealistic made up universe.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Manly Mao View Post
                      A realistic creature in unrealistic made up universe.
                      the lore states realism
                      Originally posted by Typhox
                      Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
                      Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
                        Well if you are not directly threatening me, then I am on safe ground.

                        Now the part I am confused about, is

                        -->?So this wasn't a threat? "action would hinder you more"
                        This is all kind of worrying.

                        If you are sure that if we continue with a mannered debate, that you won't randomly abuse me, then I would be happy to proceed, if you are willing also.
                        When I said you were acting cocky, I was referring to your statement that I should do my duty as a mod by moving the thread to the appropriate section. The appropriate section in this case is the Luna model feedback section, which is private. Any threads posted in there are only visible to the developers and the OP. Had I moved this thread when you had told me to, you would be hindered in continuing the discussion since there wouldn't be any thread available for you to discuss in.
                        So in summary, when I said that, I was talking about the thread, not about you.

                        Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
                        From the source you gave it pretty much states "Lionesses with manes" are caused from Mutation "Disruption of Embryo-Exposure to testosterone"

                        Also you never addressed my other points.
                        I didn't address your other points, because I doubt I can convince you otherwise, mostly because of this point that you keep bringing up:

                        Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
                        the lore states realism
                        First of all, it really doesn't. You say the lore states it needs to be realistic, because it uses the word 'Beast'. Well, let's look up the meaning of beast then:
                        According to wiktionary:
                        Noun
                        beast (plural beasts)
                        Any animal other than a human; usually only applied to land vertebrates, especially large or dangerous four-footed ones.

                        According to Webster:
                        Full Definition of BEAST

                        1
                        a : a four-footed mammal as distinguished from a human being, a lower vertebrate, and an invertebrate
                        b : a lower animal as distinguished from a human being
                        c : an animal as distinguished from a plant
                        d : an animal under human control

                        According to Oxford:
                        noun
                        an animal, especially a large or dangerous four-footed one.

                        So according to Wiktionary, Webster, and Oxford, Luna's new mount is a beast. So, hey, it is in accord to the lore.

                        Second of all, you cling to the notion of realism in a world where we got fire-breathing bats, an even less realistic feline mount for Mirana (I've never seen a white whatever-that-thing-is with blue patches of fur), a helicopter that according to every law of physics should not be able to even take off let alone fly, some kind of very small rhinoceros (or whatever it is that Chen rides), a horse that is seemingly undead, a horse that is on fire, and most of all, dis raptor.

                        Third of all, something you didn't address yourself, the fact that the panther was not realistic in the first place - as far as I know, panthers don't have eyes that glow purple. They also don't come with patches of blue fur (in this case, on the tail). I'm also pretty sure its teeth are far too big for his mouth to be able to realistically close.

                        If you insist on realism, fine. Go ahead. But I won't bother with continuing a discussion when it becomes obvious there is no possibility of convincing the other party. I'm sure we both can do something more productive with our time than needlessly dragging out a locked discussion.
                        To keep these forums clean and friendly, please read and follow the forum rules.
                        Before making a new thread, be sure to have used search, as well as checking the stickies of the appropriate section.



                        Lore moderator.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
                          the lore states realism
                          This particular does. Which is part of bigger, overally fantastic one. I'm amazed how overly concerned are you about the fact that a fictional feline similar to one, you know, from the real world, displays a slightly different traits than you are used to. I know there has to be some level of realism to make any story acceptable. However, this issue doesn't really go against it.

                          Try to look at that this way: Luna seems like an emancipated, strong, independent woman. Isn't it actually fitting, that her mount connects for you unconnectable masculine characteristic (mane) with feminine base (lioness).

                          Or maybe not... Ok man, I'm just trying
                          Last edited by Manly Mao; 11-24-2013, 06:52 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            I think all of you are missing the point.

                            The issue is not about whether Nova with mane or no mane is realistic.

                            The issue is about
                            1) Being aesthetically pleasing.
                            2) Lore - Fitting the Bio and Voicelines
                            3) Justifying gameplay mechanics.

                            1) Old Nova model had better color diversity. There were real shades of black compared to the new Nova which is just monotonous blue-black. There is very little color contrast and as a whole, Luna looks bland.

                            2a) Voicelines part: Its pretty clear, Nova is a girl name. Good girl is a phrase used to describe Nova. (Based on common sense, Lions with manes = male. Lions without manes = female. Again, this is a generalization. There may be exceptions, but its akin to women with beards in real life. Sure there exist such women, but you do not generally associate that as a feminine quality.)
                            2b) Bio part: Nightsilver Woods is likely a jungle or a forest. Lions live on plains, steppes etc. Panthers live in jungles, forests, woods etc.

                            3) Luna has the fastest starting movespeed. A quality associated with panthers, which are generally associated with speed more so than lions, which are generally associated with dominance/power.


                            Again, I like to emphasize on the point that even fantasy is anchored somewhat on reality and the experiences we get from reality.
                            Sure in fantasy, we can have whatever we want, but anything ever deviating from reality is usually accompanied with reasons, justifications and setting.
                            Gyrocopter might defy the laws of physics in our world, but perhaps Gyrocopter's machine is powered by magic partly too?
                            Batrider's bat does not breathe fire, however, Batrider's bat is extremely large. This is not hard to justify since we can have eagles and we can have real giant eagles too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haast's_Eagle

                            The fantasy of female lions with manes CAN exist. But just because something CAN exist, does it mean it SHOULD?
                            Is it the best representation of the hero?
                            A black panther with ties to Dota 1 heritage and 2012 Dota 2 heritage; is more associated with feminine qualities; is more agile and nimble; has more ties to reality
                            SHOULD be more preferred over a bluish-black lion with a mane that clips into the ground and front paws?

                            No?
                            He's the hero this community deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt his identity, because he can take it, because he's not our hero. He's a silent buffer, a watchful nerfer. An IceFrog.

                            My Speedtest Result

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Spoiler: 
                              Originally posted by Hefaistus View Post
                              When I said you were acting cocky, I was referring to your statement that I should do my duty as a mod by moving the thread to the appropriate section. The appropriate section in this case is the Luna model feedback section, which is private. Any threads posted in there are only visible to the developers and the OP. Had I moved this thread when you had told me to, you would be hindered in continuing the discussion since there wouldn't be any thread available for you to discuss in.
                              So in summary, when I said that, I was talking about the thread, not about you.



                              I didn't address your other points, because I doubt I can convince you otherwise, mostly because of this point that you keep bringing up:



                              First of all, it really doesn't. You say the lore states it needs to be realistic, because it uses the word 'Beast'. Well, let's look up the meaning of beast then:
                              According to wiktionary:
                              Noun
                              beast (plural beasts)
                              Any animal other than a human; usually only applied to land vertebrates, especially large or dangerous four-footed ones.

                              According to Webster:
                              Full Definition of BEAST

                              1
                              a : a four-footed mammal as distinguished from a human being, a lower vertebrate, and an invertebrate
                              b : a lower animal as distinguished from a human being
                              c : an animal as distinguished from a plant
                              d : an animal under human control

                              According to Oxford:
                              noun
                              an animal, especially a large or dangerous four-footed one.

                              So according to Wiktionary, Webster, and Oxford, Luna's new mount is a beast. So, hey, it is in accord to the lore.

                              Second of all, you cling to the notion of realism in a world where we got fire-breathing bats, an even less realistic feline mount for Mirana (I've never seen a white whatever-that-thing-is with blue patches of fur), a helicopter that according to every law of physics should not be able to even take off let alone fly, some kind of very small rhinoceros (or whatever it is that Chen rides), a horse that is seemingly undead, a horse that is on fire, and most of all, dis raptor.

                              Third of all, something you didn't address yourself, the fact that the panther was not realistic in the first place - as far as I know, panthers don't have eyes that glow purple. They also don't come with patches of blue fur (in this case, on the tail). I'm also pretty sure its teeth are far too big for his mouth to be able to realistically close.

                              If you insist on realism, fine. Go ahead. But I won't bother with continuing a discussion when it becomes obvious there is no possibility of convincing the other party. I'm sure we both can do something more productive with our time than needlessly dragging out a locked discussion.
                              The eyes are possibly purple due to the goddess --Moon-- this is a tiny change and actually makes sense. So the panther is realistic in the first place. Realistic =/= real, = close to real.

                              The definition you have given for a beast is fine. However the current nova is not a beast. It is a "Mythical beast", a black lion is an urban legend-- legend/Myth/---


                              The point of debate isn't about convincing someone that they are wrong. It is about putting forward an argument that proves they are wrong. With the necessary counter arguments so that it is water tight. I have yet to see proof.


                              Btw Hidden/Spoiler tags would be nice so its not so huge


                              Originally posted by Manly Mao View Post
                              This particular does. Which is part of bigger, overally fantastic one. I'm amazed how overly concerned are you about the fact that a fictional feline similar to one, you know, from the real world, displays a slightly different traits than you are used to. I know there has to be some level of realism to make any story acceptable. However, this issue doesn't really go against it.

                              Try to look at that this way: Luna seems like an emancipated, strong, independent woman. Isn't it actually fitting, that her mount connects for you unconnectable masculine characteristic (mane) with feminine base (lioness).

                              Or maybe not... Ok man, I'm just trying
                              If we are talking about literature and the representation of animals etc.-->

                              Luna is strong and independent. Not emancipated as she is restricted to Selemene command? She is in no way masculine though, being a strong and independent woman does not make you masculine. Having a muscular body/stout, usually tall, with a stoic and brave and involved personality, would make her more masculine like.

                              Luna is meant to be Quick, and a hunter. She makes numerous comments about the night, going on the prowl, etc.
                              These are not the usual characteristics you associate with a Lion. You do not instantly think Lion "Prowl, very fast".
                              Lions in literature signify, Pride and Power and act generally as a symbol of royalty. Since they are the Kings of the wild. Lions also signify bravery, courage, strength. You do not think of a fleeting lion who is a quick runner, but instead of a strong stead fast lion.
                              In literature generally Lions are different from other cats, they do not associate with the attributes that Tigers, Cheetahs, Leopards, Panthers, Jaguars, have.
                              Last edited by Crowfeather; 11-24-2013, 10:09 AM.
                              Originally posted by Typhox
                              Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
                              Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by d.phoenixxx View Post
                                I think all of you are missing the point.

                                The issue is not about whether Nova with mane or no mane is realistic.

                                The issue is about
                                1) Being aesthetically pleasing.
                                2) Lore - Fitting the Bio and Voicelines
                                3) Justifying gameplay mechanics.

                                1) Old Nova model had better color diversity. There were real shades of black compared to the new Nova which is just monotonous blue-black. There is very little color contrast and as a whole, Luna looks bland.

                                2a) Voicelines part: Its pretty clear, Nova is a girl name. Good girl is a phrase used to describe Nova. (Based on common sense, Lions with manes = male. Lions without manes = female. Again, this is a generalization. There may be exceptions, but its akin to women with beards in real life. Sure there exist such women, but you do not generally associate that as a feminine quality.)
                                2b) Bio part: Nightsilver Woods is likely a jungle or a forest. Lions live on plains, steppes etc. Panthers live in jungles, forests, woods etc.

                                3) Luna has the fastest starting movespeed. A quality associated with panthers, which are generally associated with speed more so than lions, which are generally associated with dominance/power.


                                Again, I like to emphasize on the point that even fantasy is anchored somewhat on reality and the experiences we get from reality.
                                Sure in fantasy, we can have whatever we want, but anything ever deviating from reality is usually accompanied with reasons, justifications and setting.
                                Gyrocopter might defy the laws of physics in our world, but perhaps Gyrocopter's machine is powered by magic partly too?
                                Batrider's bat does not breathe fire, however, Batrider's bat is extremely large. This is not hard to justify since we can have eagles and we can have real giant eagles too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haast's_Eagle

                                The fantasy of female lions with manes CAN exist. But just because something CAN exist, does it mean it SHOULD?
                                Is it the best representation of the hero?
                                A black panther with ties to Dota 1 heritage and 2012 Dota 2 heritage; is more associated with feminine qualities; is more agile and nimble; has more ties to reality
                                SHOULD be more preferred over a bluish-black lion with a mane that clips into the ground and front paws?

                                No?
                                1)that's just personal taste
                                2) no?only species of lion living in today, living in the plains

                                many species of lions lived in forests, mountains, and caves, but became extinct, if food conditions, the animal lives as well

                                3)not again? Lions and Lionesses reach average speed between 70 and 80km / h compared to only 50km / h, leopards or panthers



                                Originally posted by d.phoenixxx View Post
                                The fantasy of female lions with manes CAN exist. But just because something CAN exist, does it mean it SHOULD?
                                Is it the best representation of the hero?
                                A black panther with ties to Dota 1 heritage and 2012 Dota 2 heritage; is more associated with feminine qualities; is more agile and nimble; has more ties to reality
                                SHOULD be more preferred over a bluish-black lion with a mane that clips into the ground and front paws?

                                No?
                                forget dota1, dota1 is dead,you alredy saw, the best representation of the legiom commander? no matter what the hero was or had in dota 1, need not be equal to dota 2

                                I say, what they said to me with him, "" you do not think a male lion can be as cool as a female panther? As you are sexist guy ""

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