RE: Luna's Nova

[Crowfeather]

1)that's just personal taste
2) no?only species of lion living in today, living in the plains
many species of lions lived in forests, mountains, and caves, but became extinct, if food conditions, the animal lives as well

3)not again? Lions and Lionesses reach average speed between 70 and 80km / h compared to only 50km / h, leopards or panthers





forget dota1, dota1 is dead,you alredy saw, the best representation of the legiom commander? no matter what the hero was or had in dota 1, need not be equal to dota 2

I say, what they said to me with him, "" you do not think a male lion can be as cool as a female panther? As you are sexist guy ""

We are considering representation, not historical attributes. This is artwork therefore representation if of importance.

Lions are represented as a Savanna animal. People don't think Lion -->Forest.
They think Lion --> Savanna

-----------------------------
Again Lions are not considered fast, you don't associate speed with lions. You associate strength with lions.
You associate speed, and hunting ability (stalking, prowling etc) with Cats, with Jaguars, with Tigers.

In Mayan mythology, the jaguar was seen as the ruler of the Underworld, and as such, a symbol of the night sun and darkness........

The jaguar is representative of power, ferocity, and valor; he is the embodiment of aggressiveness. For some, the jaguar represents the power to face one’s fears, or to confront one’s enemies. However, they are also associated with vision, which means both their ability to see during the night and to look into the dark parts of the human heart. The jaguar often warns of disaster, he does not offer any reassurance. Along with physical vision, jaguars are also associated with prescience and the foreknowledge of things to come. Cats have binocular vision, meaning each eye can work by itself, which provides them with better depth perception. This gives more evidence to their connection with vision and foresight.

http://www.pure-spirit.com/more-anim...guar-symbolism

This pretty much describes luna. So a Jaguar should be more apt, in a literary sense.


Ever wonder why Blizzard a high quality production company that spent $$$ making Wc3 lore, through WoW and Wc1,2,3 etc. Decided that ELUNE's followers (The Moon deity) rode Jaguars.

[d.phoenixxx]

2) no?only species of lion living in today, living in the plains

many species of lions lived in forests, mountains, and caves, but became extinct, if food conditions, the animal lives as well

3)not again? Lions and Lionesses reach average speed between 70 and 80km / h compared to only 50km / h, leopards or panthers

Which part of symbolism do you not understand?

Lions symbolize power and strength. Lions are generally associated with being savannah animals, not forest animals.

Lions can run faster than panthers or black jaguars, but they are generally regarded as cumbersome compared to agile stalking panthers or black jaguars.

[Siegfried]

We are considering representation, not historical attributes. This is artwork therefore representation if of importance.

Lions are represented as a Savanna animal. People don't think Lion -->Forest.
They think Lion --> Savanna

-----------------------------
Again Lions are not considered fast, you don't associate speed with lions. You associate strength with lions.
You associate speed, and hunting ability (stalking, prowling etc) with Cats, with Jaguars, with Tigers.



http://www.pure-spirit.com/more-anim...guar-symbolism

This pretty much describes luna. So a Jaguar should be more apt, in a literary sense.

what you think when you speak the king of "" Jungle ""? what is a >>>>jungle<<<< for you?

wtf lion not considered fast? the second feline more fast in the world? only lose for cheetah, would not be better to leave heryellow and spots?

if we look at the reality, she could never mount any feline, you know the oversize right?

[Hefaistus]

Snip

What you are describing here is something that is visually jarring, unconventional, unusual. It's not contradicting lore. That's my entire point. We are used to lionesses without manes, lions living on plains, etc, etc. That makes the current Nova unconventional. Not contradicting. Current Nova is a feline beast, and while a mane on a lioness is unconventional, it does not define the gender. So current Nova fits the lore.

Oh, and Gyro's copter does not use any magic. It's explicitly stated in his lore:
"[...] the erstwhile engineer left with something far more interesting: a long-forgotten, incomplete schematic for a Gyrocopter, the world’s first manned, non-magical flying device."

The eyes are possibly purple due to the goddess --Moon-- this is a tiny change and actually makes sense. So the panther is realistic in the first place. Realistic =/= real, = close to real.

Realistic (comparative more realistic, superlative most realistic)
Adjective
expressed or represented as being accurate.

accurate (comparative accurater or more accurate, superlative accuratest or most accurate)
Adjective
In exact or careful conformity to truth; the result of care or pains; free from failure, error, or defect; exact; as, an accurate calculator; an accurate measure; accurate expression, knowledge, etc.

Purple glowing eyes is not an exact or careful conformity to the truthful representation of real panthers. It is also a ridiculous claim. "Oh, I can totally believe some kind of moon goddess made the panther's eyes glows, but changing the colour of fur and making it longer on a lion falls right outside my ability to believe it."

The definition you have given for a beast is fine. However the current nova is not a beast. It is a "Mythical beast", a black lion is an urban legend-- legend/Myth/---

You are goddamn frustrating, you realize that? "Oh, Nova is not a beast because I added an adverb to it." A mythical beast is still a beast. It's right there in the bloody description! Mythical BEAST! You are calling it a beast!

The point of debate isn't about convincing someone that they are wrong. It is about putting forward an argument that proves they are wrong. With the necessary counter arguments so that it is water tight. I have yet to see proof.

I'm sorry, but if you think the statement 'current Nova is a mythical beast so she isn't a beast' constitutes as an actual argument that maintains the productivity of a debate, then I really got nothing to tell you. This is my last response to you, I'm not going to bother continuing a debate where the other party starts making such ridiculous claims.

[Siegfried]

Which part of symbolism do you not understand?

Lions symbolize power and strength. Lions are generally associated with being savannah animals, not forest animals.

Lions can run faster than panthers or black jaguars, but they are generally regarded as cumbersome compared to agile stalking panthers or black jaguars.

>>king of jungle<< not more to say

[Manly Mao]

Oh, you've finally used fine argument. Well done (I mean it).

But you know, she being the mighty leader of a great army corresponds with "pride and power" symbolism evoked by an image of lion. The army she once have and lost, feeling deprived, wandering alone, when suddenly she finds another prideful being which test her, find her worthy (that's what i got from their first introduction) and offers her to join a new pride/pack/social group. She has been always part of something bigger. Jaguars are mostly solitary animals and that would make more sense if she mounted that thing and become some kind of renegade. But no. Her actions are not based on mere selfish reasons. Another thing, The moon order is clearly matriarchal, which could go well with possible fact that the species of cat we're talking about is too. And that could answer the question why female display usually male feature - because lions are not.

This idea could work for me.

[Crowfeather]

Spoiler: 

What you are describing here is something that is visually jarring, unconventional, unusual. It's not contradicting lore. That's my entire point. We are used to lionesses without manes, lions living on plains, etc, etc. That makes the current Nova unconventional. Not contradicting. Current Nova is a feline beast, and while a mane on a lioness is unconventional, it does not define the gender. So current Nova fits the lore.

Ignores the symbolism of a lion

Realistic (comparative more realistic, superlative most realistic)
Adjective
expressed or represented as being accurate.

accurate (comparative accurater or more accurate, superlative accuratest or most accurate)
Adjective
In exact or careful conformity to truth; the result of care or pains; free from failure, error, or defect; exact; as, an accurate calculator; an accurate measure; accurate expression, knowledge, etc.

Purple glowing eyes is not an exact or careful conformity to the truthful representation of real panthers. It is also a ridiculous claim. "Oh, I can totally believe some kind of moon goddess made the panther's eyes glows, but changing the colour of fur and making it longer on a lion falls right outside my ability to believe it."

Mythical Beast =/= Beast
Sea pig =/= Pig

--->---<--

A legendary creature is an animal whose life is accounted in non-historical or yet to be verified stories that sometime involve the supernatural. However, other legendary animals, such as the unicorn, were documented in accounts of natural history by various scholars of antiquity.[1] Due to the lack of fossils of these creatures, the veracity of these historical recordings is questioned by modern zoologists. Some of the these creatures can also be cryptids, although the terms are not synonymous.

--Furthermore feline =/= Mythical. Feline = Real world.

You are goddamn frustrating, you realize that? "Oh, Nova is not a beast because I added an adverb to it." A mythical beast is still a beast. It's right there in the bloody description! Mythical BEAST! You are calling it a beast!

Its "Mythical Beast". Yes note the Capital "M", denoting a noun, not an adverb.

Technically Mythical Beasts, don't even exist. It should be called a Mythical Creature.

• MYTHICAL CREATURE (noun)
The noun MYTHICAL CREATURE has 1 sense:
1. a monster renowned in folklore and myth

[/QUOTE]
-->So since it is not specifically stated "Mythical Beast, or Mythical Creature. The Feline/Beast is real. Not legendary, thus must be realistic.

I'm sorry, but if you think the statement 'current Nova is a mythical beast so she isn't a beast' constitutes as an actual argument that maintains the productivity of a debate, then I really got nothing to tell you. This is my last response to you, I'm not going to bother continuing a debate where the other party starts making such ridiculous claims.

I have just stated the difference between a Mythical Creature/Beast and a Beast,
English is not the clearest of languages. I hope that clears up the confusion.

Physically changing a beast, into a mythical being, constitutes as a major change and does not follow the lore, which assumes a sense of realism.

Oh, you've finally used fine argument. Well done (I mean it).

But you know, she being the mighty leader of a great army corresponds with "pride and power" symbolism evoked by an image of lion.

She is now the the Moon Rider, this represents a new stage in her life, and her religion which owes itself to selemene. It is highly unlikely a mount that symbolizes her new life, actually refers to her past.

Furthermore does "Something beautiful and deadly sought a meal in the wilting dusk" sound like a lion?

The army she once have and lost, feeling deprived, wandering alone, when suddenly she finds another prideful being which test her, find her worthy (that's what i got from their first introduction) and offers her to join a new pride/pack/social group. She has been always part of something bigger. Jaguars are mostly solitary animals and that would make more sense if she mounted that thing and become some kind of renegade. But no. Her actions are not based on mere selfish reasons. Another thing, The moon order is clearly matriarchal, which could go well with possible fact that the species of cat we're talking about is too. And that could answer the question why female display usually male feature - because lions are not. This idea could work for me.

Jaguars are not solitary animals.

[Siegfried]

Oh, you've finally used fine argument. Well done (I mean it).

But you know, she being the mighty leader of a great army corresponds with "pride and power" symbolism evoked by an image of lion. The army she once have and lost, feeling deprived, wandering alone, when suddenly she finds another prideful being which test her, find her worthy (that's what i got from their first introduction) and offers her to join a new pride/pack/social group. She has been always part of something bigger. Jaguars are mostly solitary animals and that would make more sense if she mounted that thing and become some kind of renegade. But no. Her actions are not based on mere selfish reasons. Another thing, The moon order is clearly matriarchal, which could go well with possible fact that the species of cat we're talking about is too. And that could answer the question why female display usually male feature - because lions are not.

This idea could work for me.

The moon order is matriarchal, but the animals they ride obvious not, the order of the moon, is the same scheme for elune, and they use all kinds of cats as a mount, either males or females

and as you said the luna was "renegade" is now a fighter alone, what was not

very similar to what happens with some lions who leave the pack

[Manly Mao]

And here I though you are out of nonsensical arguments.
I've clearly stated that it fits even the new stage of her life. Social group. Read again.

Furthermore does "Something beautiful and deadly sought a meal in the wilting dusk" sound like a lion?

Well, yes. Except for the dusk thing, this is pretty much poetic image of stalking lioness.

Jaguars are not solitary animals.

Yes, they are.

And stop abusing term realistic. We're talking about realistic in unrealistic universe framework. Every non-human being in any fantasy is more or less based on something real. That's how it is done. We have to work with our own experience. It doesn't obligate itself to literally follow the image is was based on. And you know nothing about commonness of maned black female felines in that world. That you think that manned lioness is unacceptable while glowing purple-eyed, furry-tailed feline is, that's your problem. It doesn't make one thing less valid than other. Symbolism is another thing and we've just talked about it.

[Manly Mao]

Now this is complete bullshit.

The moon order is matriarchal, but the animals they ride obvious not, the order of the moon, is the same scheme for elune, and they use all kinds of cats as a mount, either males or females

Matriarchal society doesn't mean the males are missing. Of course they could use male felines... And your "obvious" is not obvious at all. Following same scheme as W3 lore? Why it should be so? I'm aware that Dota 2 lore is poorly executed, that doesn't mean you can start filling up the holes with unrelated stuff.

and as you said the luna was "renegade" is now a fighter alone, what was not

I did not say that.

[Siegfried]

wtf and why demons would not be a male lion? what that would mean in gameplay, story of it? since it does not say anything besides a beast?

of course you are familiar with what they saw in dota 1 and 2, but it is nothing but readaptation

[Siegfried]

Now this is complete bullshit.

Matriarchal society doesn't mean the males are missing. Of course they could use male felines... And your "obviously" is not obvious at all. Following same scheme as W3 lore? Why it should be so?

I did not say that.

What? why bullshit? why be so anger? of course she uses the same scheme for elune because it was where the character was inspired, moon riders, who are fighting for their goddess mounted giant cats

you may not have said that, but this is what in her history

[Manly Mao]

What? why bullshit? why be so anger? of course she uses the same scheme for elune because it was where the character was inspired, moon riders, who are fighting for their goddess mounted giant cats

you may not have said that, but this is what in her history

I'm not angry. Of course she is based on that. They've had to keep it as close to the original as possible so she doesn't lose "the feel". But it doesn't follow the scheme one hundred percently, so anything that is not stated, is well... not known. You can't just conveniently pick the details from Dota1 lore.

[Siegfried]

I'm not angry. Of course she is based on that. They've had to keep it as close to the original as possible so she doesn't lose "the feel". But it doesn't follow the scheme one hundred percently, so anything that is not stated, is well... not known. You can't just conveniently pick the details from Dota1 lore.

I'm not choosing the appropriate details, so I'm quoting it is only a mere change, it has no importance, all arguments except the adaptation to dota 1, are flawed

You know it is a small change compared to other heros change, and there is not much crying, and if it had, was silenced with time

[cr1sto]

i love the old luna model. setting lore and such aside.

the old model had style, had beauty, had elegance, had awesomeness, she was just awesome.

the new one is none of the above. and thats sad.

Totally agree, bring old Nova model back!