Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules

  • No flaming or derogatory remarks, directly or through insinuation.
  • No discussion, sharing or referencing illegal software such as hacks, keygen, cracks and pirated software.
  • No offensive contents, including but not limited to, racism, gore or pornography.
  • No excessive spam/meme, i.e. copious one liners in a short period of time, typing with all caps or posting meme responses (text/image).
  • No trolling, including but not limited to, flame incitation, user provocation or false information distribution.
  • No link spamming or signature advertisements for content not specific to Dota 2.
  • No Dota 2 key requests, sell, trade etc.
  • You may not create multiple accounts for any purpose, including ban evasion, unless expressly permitted by a moderator.

  • Please search before posting. One thread per issue. Do not create another thread if there is an existing one already.
  • Before posting anything, make sure you check out all sticky threads (e.g., this). Do not create new threads about closed ones.
  • It is extremely important that you post in correct forum section.

  • Balance discussion only in Misc.
  • All art related (such as hero model) feedbacks go to Art Feedback Forum.
  • All matchmaking feedback should go here: Matchmaking Feedback
  • All report/low priority issues should go here: Commend/Report/Ban Feedback
  • No specific workshop item feedback. These should go to workshop page of that item.
  • When posting in non-bugs section (such as this), use [Bugs], [Discussion] or [Suggestion] prefix in your thread name.



In case you object some action by a moderator, please contact him directly through PM and explain your concerns politely. If you are still unable to resolve the issue, contact an administrator. Do not drag these issues in public.



All rules are meant to augment common sense, please use them when not conflicted with aforementioned policies.
See more
See less

RE: Luna's Nova

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by Siegfried View Post
    1)that's just personal taste
    2) no?only species of lion living in today, living in the plains
    many species of lions lived in forests, mountains, and caves, but became extinct, if food conditions, the animal lives as well

    3)not again? Lions and Lionesses reach average speed between 70 and 80km / h compared to only 50km / h, leopards or panthers





    forget dota1, dota1 is dead,you alredy saw, the best representation of the legiom commander? no matter what the hero was or had in dota 1, need not be equal to dota 2

    I say, what they said to me with him, "" you do not think a male lion can be as cool as a female panther? As you are sexist guy ""
    We are considering representation, not historical attributes. This is artwork therefore representation if of importance.

    Lions are represented as a Savanna animal. People don't think Lion -->Forest.
    They think Lion --> Savanna

    -----------------------------
    Again Lions are not considered fast, you don't associate speed with lions. You associate strength with lions.
    You associate speed, and hunting ability (stalking, prowling etc) with Cats, with Jaguars, with Tigers.



    In Mayan mythology, the jaguar was seen as the ruler of the Underworld, and as such, a symbol of the night sun and darkness........

    The jaguar is representative of power, ferocity, and valor; he is the embodiment of aggressiveness. For some, the jaguar represents the power to face one’s fears, or to confront one’s enemies. However, they are also associated with vision, which means both their ability to see during the night and to look into the dark parts of the human heart. The jaguar often warns of disaster, he does not offer any reassurance. Along with physical vision, jaguars are also associated with prescience and the foreknowledge of things to come. Cats have binocular vision, meaning each eye can work by itself, which provides them with better depth perception. This gives more evidence to their connection with vision and foresight.
    http://www.pure-spirit.com/more-anim...guar-symbolism

    This pretty much describes luna. So a Jaguar should be more apt, in a literary sense.


    Ever wonder why Blizzard a high quality production company that spent $$$ making Wc3 lore, through WoW and Wc1,2,3 etc. Decided that ELUNE's followers (The Moon deity) rode Jaguars.
    Last edited by Crowfeather; 11-24-2013, 10:18 AM.
    Originally posted by Typhox
    Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
    Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Siegfried View Post
      2) no?only species of lion living in today, living in the plains

      many species of lions lived in forests, mountains, and caves, but became extinct, if food conditions, the animal lives as well

      3)not again? Lions and Lionesses reach average speed between 70 and 80km / h compared to only 50km / h, leopards or panthers
      Which part of symbolism do you not understand?

      Lions symbolize power and strength. Lions are generally associated with being savannah animals, not forest animals.

      Lions can run faster than panthers or black jaguars, but they are generally regarded as cumbersome compared to agile stalking panthers or black jaguars.
      He's the hero this community deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt his identity, because he can take it, because he's not our hero. He's a silent buffer, a watchful nerfer. An IceFrog.

      My Speedtest Result

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
        We are considering representation, not historical attributes. This is artwork therefore representation if of importance.

        Lions are represented as a Savanna animal. People don't think Lion -->Forest.
        They think Lion --> Savanna

        -----------------------------
        Again Lions are not considered fast, you don't associate speed with lions. You associate strength with lions.
        You associate speed, and hunting ability (stalking, prowling etc) with Cats, with Jaguars, with Tigers.



        http://www.pure-spirit.com/more-anim...guar-symbolism

        This pretty much describes luna. So a Jaguar should be more apt, in a literary sense.
        what you think when you speak the king of "" Jungle ""? what is a >>>>jungle<<<< for you?

        wtf lion not considered fast? the second feline more fast in the world? only lose for cheetah, would not be better to leave heryellow and spots?

        if we look at the reality, she could never mount any feline, you know the oversize right?

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by d.phoenixxx View Post
          Snip
          What you are describing here is something that is visually jarring, unconventional, unusual. It's not contradicting lore. That's my entire point. We are used to lionesses without manes, lions living on plains, etc, etc. That makes the current Nova unconventional. Not contradicting. Current Nova is a feline beast, and while a mane on a lioness is unconventional, it does not define the gender. So current Nova fits the lore.

          Oh, and Gyro's copter does not use any magic. It's explicitly stated in his lore:
          "[...] the erstwhile engineer left with something far more interesting: a long-forgotten, incomplete schematic for a Gyrocopter, the world’s first manned, non-magical flying device."

          Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
          The eyes are possibly purple due to the goddess --Moon-- this is a tiny change and actually makes sense. So the panther is realistic in the first place. Realistic =/= real, = close to real.
          Realistic (comparative more realistic, superlative most realistic)
          Adjective
          expressed or represented as being accurate.

          accurate (comparative accurater or more accurate, superlative accuratest or most accurate)
          Adjective
          In exact or careful conformity to truth; the result of care or pains; free from failure, error, or defect; exact; as, an accurate calculator; an accurate measure; accurate expression, knowledge, etc.

          Purple glowing eyes is not an exact or careful conformity to the truthful representation of real panthers. It is also a ridiculous claim. "Oh, I can totally believe some kind of moon goddess made the panther's eyes glows, but changing the colour of fur and making it longer on a lion falls right outside my ability to believe it."

          Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
          The definition you have given for a beast is fine. However the current nova is not a beast. It is a "Mythical beast", a black lion is an urban legend-- legend/Myth/---
          You are goddamn frustrating, you realize that? "Oh, Nova is not a beast because I added an adverb to it." A mythical beast is still a beast. It's right there in the bloody description! Mythical BEAST! You are calling it a beast!

          Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
          The point of debate isn't about convincing someone that they are wrong. It is about putting forward an argument that proves they are wrong. With the necessary counter arguments so that it is water tight. I have yet to see proof.
          I'm sorry, but if you think the statement 'current Nova is a mythical beast so she isn't a beast' constitutes as an actual argument that maintains the productivity of a debate, then I really got nothing to tell you. This is my last response to you, I'm not going to bother continuing a debate where the other party starts making such ridiculous claims.
          To keep these forums clean and friendly, please read and follow the forum rules.
          Before making a new thread, be sure to have used search, as well as checking the stickies of the appropriate section.



          Lore moderator.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by d.phoenixxx View Post
            Which part of symbolism do you not understand?

            Lions symbolize power and strength. Lions are generally associated with being savannah animals, not forest animals.

            Lions can run faster than panthers or black jaguars, but they are generally regarded as cumbersome compared to agile stalking panthers or black jaguars.
            >>king of jungle<< not more to say

            Comment


            • #81
              Oh, you've finally used fine argument. Well done (I mean it).

              But you know, she being the mighty leader of a great army corresponds with "pride and power" symbolism evoked by an image of lion. The army she once have and lost, feeling deprived, wandering alone, when suddenly she finds another prideful being which test her, find her worthy (that's what i got from their first introduction) and offers her to join a new pride/pack/social group. She has been always part of something bigger. Jaguars are mostly solitary animals and that would make more sense if she mounted that thing and become some kind of renegade. But no. Her actions are not based on mere selfish reasons. Another thing, The moon order is clearly matriarchal, which could go well with possible fact that the species of cat we're talking about is too. And that could answer the question why female display usually male feature - because lions are not.

              This idea could work for me.

              Comment


              • #82
                Spoiler: 
                Originally posted by Hefaistus View Post
                What you are describing here is something that is visually jarring, unconventional, unusual. It's not contradicting lore. That's my entire point. We are used to lionesses without manes, lions living on plains, etc, etc. That makes the current Nova unconventional. Not contradicting. Current Nova is a feline beast, and while a mane on a lioness is unconventional, it does not define the gender. So current Nova fits the lore.
                Ignores the symbolism of a lion


                Realistic (comparative more realistic, superlative most realistic)
                Adjective
                expressed or represented as being accurate.

                accurate (comparative accurater or more accurate, superlative accuratest or most accurate)
                Adjective
                In exact or careful conformity to truth; the result of care or pains; free from failure, error, or defect; exact; as, an accurate calculator; an accurate measure; accurate expression, knowledge, etc.

                Purple glowing eyes is not an exact or careful conformity to the truthful representation of real panthers. It is also a ridiculous claim. "Oh, I can totally believe some kind of moon goddess made the panther's eyes glows, but changing the colour of fur and making it longer on a lion falls right outside my ability to believe it."
                Mythical Beast =/= Beast
                Sea pig =/= Pig

                --->---<--

                A legendary creature is an animal whose life is accounted in non-historical or yet to be verified stories that sometime involve the supernatural. However, other legendary animals, such as the unicorn, were documented in accounts of natural history by various scholars of antiquity.[1] Due to the lack of fossils of these creatures, the veracity of these historical recordings is questioned by modern zoologists. Some of the these creatures can also be cryptids, although the terms are not synonymous.
                --Furthermore feline =/= Mythical. Feline = Real world.

                You are goddamn frustrating, you realize that? "Oh, Nova is not a beast because I added an adverb to it." A mythical beast is still a beast. It's right there in the bloody description! Mythical BEAST! You are calling it a beast!
                Its "Mythical Beast". Yes note the Capital "M", denoting a noun, not an adverb.
                Technically Mythical Beasts, don't even exist. It should be called a Mythical Creature.

                • MYTHICAL CREATURE (noun)
                The noun MYTHICAL CREATURE has 1 sense:
                1. a monster renowned in folklore and myth
                [/QUOTE]
                -->So since it is not specifically stated "Mythical Beast, or Mythical Creature. The Feline/Beast is real. Not legendary, thus must be realistic.


                I'm sorry, but if you think the statement 'current Nova is a mythical beast so she isn't a beast' constitutes as an actual argument that maintains the productivity of a debate, then I really got nothing to tell you. This is my last response to you, I'm not going to bother continuing a debate where the other party starts making such ridiculous claims.
                I have just stated the difference between a Mythical Creature/Beast and a Beast,
                English is not the clearest of languages. I hope that clears up the confusion.

                Physically changing a beast, into a mythical being, constitutes as a major change and does not follow the lore, which assumes a sense of realism.


                Originally posted by Manly Mao View Post
                Oh, you've finally used fine argument. Well done (I mean it).

                But you know, she being the mighty leader of a great army corresponds with "pride and power" symbolism evoked by an image of lion.
                She is now the the Moon Rider, this represents a new stage in her life, and her religion which owes itself to selemene. It is highly unlikely a mount that symbolizes her new life, actually refers to her past.

                Furthermore does "Something beautiful and deadly sought a meal in the wilting dusk" sound like a lion?

                The army she once have and lost, feeling deprived, wandering alone, when suddenly she finds another prideful being which test her, find her worthy (that's what i got from their first introduction) and offers her to join a new pride/pack/social group. She has been always part of something bigger. Jaguars are mostly solitary animals and that would make more sense if she mounted that thing and become some kind of renegade. But no. Her actions are not based on mere selfish reasons. Another thing, The moon order is clearly matriarchal, which could go well with possible fact that the species of cat we're talking about is too. And that could answer the question why female display usually male feature - because lions are not. This idea could work for me.
                Jaguars are not solitary animals.
                Last edited by Crowfeather; 11-24-2013, 12:25 PM.
                Originally posted by Typhox
                Nope. Windows Explorer is not a database
                Take a look into the mirror! You think you are completely unfailable. With your limited knowledge, you think that you know more than someone who is very deep in the matter/an expert.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Manly Mao View Post
                  Oh, you've finally used fine argument. Well done (I mean it).

                  But you know, she being the mighty leader of a great army corresponds with "pride and power" symbolism evoked by an image of lion. The army she once have and lost, feeling deprived, wandering alone, when suddenly she finds another prideful being which test her, find her worthy (that's what i got from their first introduction) and offers her to join a new pride/pack/social group. She has been always part of something bigger. Jaguars are mostly solitary animals and that would make more sense if she mounted that thing and become some kind of renegade. But no. Her actions are not based on mere selfish reasons. Another thing, The moon order is clearly matriarchal, which could go well with possible fact that the species of cat we're talking about is too. And that could answer the question why female display usually male feature - because lions are not.

                  This idea could work for me.


                  The moon order is matriarchal, but the animals they ride obvious not, the order of the moon, is the same scheme for elune, and they use all kinds of cats as a mount, either males or females

                  and as you said the luna was "renegade" is now a fighter alone, what was not

                  very similar to what happens with some lions who leave the pack

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    And here I though you are out of nonsensical arguments.
                    I've clearly stated that it fits even the new stage of her life. Social group. Read again.
                    Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
                    Furthermore does "Something beautiful and deadly sought a meal in the wilting dusk" sound like a lion?
                    Well, yes. Except for the dusk thing, this is pretty much poetic image of stalking lioness.
                    Originally posted by Crowfeather View Post
                    Jaguars are not solitary animals.
                    Yes, they are.

                    And stop abusing term realistic. We're talking about realistic in unrealistic universe framework. Every non-human being in any fantasy is more or less based on something real. That's how it is done. We have to work with our own experience. It doesn't obligate itself to literally follow the image is was based on. And you know nothing about commonness of maned black female felines in that world. That you think that manned lioness is unacceptable while glowing purple-eyed, furry-tailed feline is, that's your problem. It doesn't make one thing less valid than other. Symbolism is another thing and we've just talked about it.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Now this is complete bullshit.
                      Originally posted by Siegfried View Post
                      The moon order is matriarchal, but the animals they ride obvious not, the order of the moon, is the same scheme for elune, and they use all kinds of cats as a mount, either males or females
                      Matriarchal society doesn't mean the males are missing. Of course they could use male felines... And your "obvious" is not obvious at all. Following same scheme as W3 lore? Why it should be so? I'm aware that Dota 2 lore is poorly executed, that doesn't mean you can start filling up the holes with unrelated stuff.
                      Originally posted by Siegfried View Post
                      and as you said the luna was "renegade" is now a fighter alone, what was not
                      I did not say that.
                      Last edited by Manly Mao; 11-24-2013, 12:54 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        wtf and why demons would not be a male lion? what that would mean in gameplay, story of it? since it does not say anything besides a beast?

                        of course you are familiar with what they saw in dota 1 and 2, but it is nothing but readaptation

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Manly Mao View Post
                          Now this is complete bullshit.

                          Matriarchal society doesn't mean the males are missing. Of course they could use male felines... And your "obviously" is not obvious at all. Following same scheme as W3 lore? Why it should be so?

                          I did not say that.

                          What? why bullshit? why be so anger? of course she uses the same scheme for elune because it was where the character was inspired, moon riders, who are fighting for their goddess mounted giant cats

                          you may not have said that, but this is what in her history

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Siegfried View Post
                            What? why bullshit? why be so anger? of course she uses the same scheme for elune because it was where the character was inspired, moon riders, who are fighting for their goddess mounted giant cats

                            you may not have said that, but this is what in her history
                            I'm not angry. Of course she is based on that. They've had to keep it as close to the original as possible so she doesn't lose "the feel". But it doesn't follow the scheme one hundred percently, so anything that is not stated, is well... not known. You can't just conveniently pick the details from Dota1 lore.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Manly Mao View Post
                              I'm not angry. Of course she is based on that. They've had to keep it as close to the original as possible so she doesn't lose "the feel". But it doesn't follow the scheme one hundred percently, so anything that is not stated, is well... not known. You can't just conveniently pick the details from Dota1 lore.
                              I'm not choosing the appropriate details, so I'm quoting it is only a mere change, it has no importance, all arguments except the adaptation to dota 1, are flawed

                              You know it is a small change compared to other heros change, and there is not much crying, and if it had, was silenced with time

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Khress View Post
                                i love the old luna model. setting lore and such aside.

                                the old model had style, had beauty, had elegance, had awesomeness, she was just awesome.

                                the new one is none of the above. and thats sad.
                                Totally agree, bring old Nova model back!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X