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American grammar in Venomancer's lore.

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  • American grammar in Venomancer's lore.

    Taken from Venomancer's lore text:

    Ages ago, an Herbalist named Lesale crossed the Bay of Fradj by coracle, searching for potent essences that might be extracted from bark and root, and found instead a nightmare transformation.

    For the majority of English speakers, herb is pronounced with a strong 'H', which would result in 'an' being replaced with 'a'.

    It really bugs me to see such a butchering of traditional English and have no way to change to a United Kingdom form of English. This is also the form of English that Europeans, and Asians will learn as their second language.

    Furthermore, as the game has a fantasy setting, I find it quite distracting to see such a form of English used in a setting where traditional English is often favoured.

  • #2
    Thou art right.
    Originally posted by vladhood
    boy im glad all these qualified and educated game designers have come to the forums to help dota 2 grow

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    • #3
      +1

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      • #4
        Personally, I don't think it's a huge deal - a more important factor should be to keep to a consistent way of spelling (either American or British) the words that have different spelling depending on the branch of English language. Bloodstone's flavour text, for example, mentions a "bright ruby color".

        Maybe patch in an option to use either one or the other branch?
        Believe in the ideal, not in the idol.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Tellurium View Post
          Personally, I don't think it's a huge deal - a more important factor should be to keep to a consistent way of spelling (either American or British) the words that have different spelling depending on the branch of English language. Bloodstone's flavour text, for example, mentions a "bright ruby color".

          Maybe patch in an option to use either one or the other branch?
          I appreciate as many views as possibly regarding this, but the use of "ERB" isn't even the exclusive form in American English. Some pronounce the 'H', while others do not - there isn't a static consensus.

          The word "color" is different because it is the exclusively correct in American English form.

          Why not use the form everyone is familiar with?
          Last edited by Spitfire; 05-16-2012, 06:55 AM.

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          • #6
            Was it really necessary to make the complaint while including those last two paragraphs. It's becomes obvious it's an attempt to bring up a fight between American and British English, to which I must say, I completely disagree with "Traditional English" being the favored in fantastic settings ever since the entire genre realized Albion and the Middle Earths was a dull and old setting to base your stories on, since about 20 to 30 years ago.

            Which isn't to say that I disagree. To be precise, I find this to be a very minor complaint over something that could have even been easily overlooked even with proofreading. It's just not a big deal. But doesn't mean we should ignore it now that it's brought up. The reasonable approach is to make sure there's consistency. As tellurium pointed out, "color" is also used, so from precedents, "An Herbalist" is also correct.
            Several games have language settings upon installation, and bigger titles go as far offer UK and USA English (Even other such examples, like BR and PT Portuguese), so it's a matter of valve paying attention to and deliver that, everyone would be happy.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Dr Quint View Post
              Was it really necessary to make the complaint while including those last two paragraphs. It's becomes obvious it's an attempt to bring up a fight between American and British English, to which I must say, I completely disagree with "Traditional English" being the favored in fantastic settings ever since the entire genre realized Albion and the Middle Earths was a dull and old setting to base your stories on, since about 20 to 30 years ago.

              Which isn't to say that I disagree. To be precise, I find this to be a very minor complaint over something that could have even been easily overlooked even with proofreading. It's just not a big deal. But doesn't mean we should ignore it now that it's brought up. The reasonable approach is to make sure there's consistency. As tellurium pointed out, "color" is also used, so from precedents, "An Herbalist" is also correct.
              Several games have language settings upon installation, and bigger titles go as far offer UK and USA English (Even other such examples, like BR and PT Portuguese), so it's a matter of valve paying attention to and deliver that, everyone would be happy.
              I was definitely not attempting to cause a conflict. I'm sorry if you felt that way, but those paragraphs are there solely to contribute to my main point.

              My sympathies, but your paragraph addressing the fantasy setting is slightly confounding. Could you please elaborate?

              I addressed the point of consistency in my above reply to Tellurium.
              Last edited by Spitfire; 05-16-2012, 06:55 AM.

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              • #8
                +1

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                • #9
                  cry

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                  • #10
                    I am sorry, but this is possibly the stupidest suggestion I have ever seen. If could give it -100000, I would.

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                    • #11
                      I love when the English defend what they call "traditional English" in favor of conventions that are more modern than they think. American English retains more-derived pronunciations and spellings over UK English in some cases. This happens to be one of them. The English word "herb" is derived from the Old French word "erbe" meaning "grass". Notice there's no "h" in there? That's right.

                      I noticed you using the ending -our. Sorry to inform you, but that is a more modern spelling practice. The -or ending is more traditional, because the word "color" and similar words ending in -or are ultimately derived from some Latin words ending in the -or nominative. Old French, which is where we directly derived the word, spelled it "color" and not "colour".

                      You said you weren't trying to cause a conflict. "It really bugs me to see such a butchering of traditional English..." suggests otherwise. That, or you are simply ignorant about what you're talking about yet still feel motivated to defend it vigorously as if you did. Valve is an American company, and so it makes sense that they would be using American English. If something so petty bothers you so much, just stop playing the game all-together.
                      Last edited by kirves; 05-16-2012, 05:48 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Whichever one came first, dialectal variations are not butchering. I do not pronounce the H. You pronounce the H. It really isn't worth starting an argument over.

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                        • #13
                          To say that American English (AKA the English that most of Valve speaks) is a "butchering" of traditional english is quite rude of you to say. While I'm not gonna be unreasonable and demand you take it back (it is your opinion, after all), it is not the nicest thing I've heard all day, hearing that what I speak every day of my life is a butchering of anything. Please try to keep an open mind towards other dialects of your language.

                          I don't really know about if it really is a "majority" of English speakers who speak that way. The US has 313 million residents or so, who I'm gonna assume all speak-wait for it-American English. The UK, on the other hand, has 62 million citizens give or take. Add on Australia and New Zealand, where English is the primary language, and that's approximately 90 million. 90 versus 300? hmmmm. (Not counting Canada, as I'm unsure of the primary dialect there. Even so, their population is only 33 million, so it would not make a huge difference either way, and a major chunk of that population is primarily French-speaking)
                          I know that one must add on millions more for the people outside the UK that speak Traditional English, but still, the amount of people that speak American English as a first language vastly outnumber those that speak "Traditional" English as a first language. And for most of the people who speak English as a second language, there will probably additional language support for Dota 2, so why should they bother playing the English version in the first place.

                          And to those that think this is a stupid suggestion, you ruffians need to keep an open mind more than the OP does. Why shouldn't Valve put in a little extra work and have an option to change all the writing to "traditional" English so that people like the OP have their option, and we American "butchers" can have ours?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Crazy Dave View Post
                            To say that American English (AKA the English that most of Valve speaks) is a "butchering" of traditional english is quite rude of you to say. While I'm not gonna be unreasonable and demand you take it back (it is your opinion, after all), it is not the nicest thing I've heard all day, hearing that what I speak every day of my life is a butchering of anything. Please try to keep an open mind towards other dialects of your language.

                            I don't really know about if it really is a "majority" of English speakers who speak that way. The US has 313 million residents or so, who I'm gonna assume all speak-wait for it-American English. The UK, on the other hand, has 62 million citizens give or take. Add on Australia and New Zealand, where English is the primary language, and that's approximately 90 million. 90 versus 300? hmmmm. (Not counting Canada, as I'm unsure of the primary dialect there. Even so, their population is only 33 million, so it would not make a huge difference either way, and a major chunk of that population is primarily French-speaking)
                            I know that one must add on millions more for the people outside the UK that speak Traditional English, but still, the amount of people that speak American English as a first language vastly outnumber those that speak "Traditional" English as a first language. And for most of the people who speak English as a second language, there will probably additional language support for Dota 2, so why should they bother playing the English version in the first place.

                            And to those that think this is a stupid suggestion, you ruffians need to keep an open mind more than the OP does. Why shouldn't Valve put in a little extra work and have an option to change all the writing to "traditional" English so that people like the OP have their option, and we American "butchers" can have ours?
                            Your figures are ignoring the rest of the planet, where english is not the first language but is taught in schools very actively. Almost all of the EU region will be speaking and learning english as 'traditional' english, I'm not too sure which dialect other countries choose to teach but from what I have read and heard it is mostly 'traditional' english.

                            All of this is irrelevant really, if the company developing the game choose american dialect and grammar to be used in their game, they should (and do) use it, obviously. Wouldnt make much sense for them to use language/grammar that isnt taught in their native schools, would it?

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                            • #15
                              +1

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