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Names and titles

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  • Names and titles

    As we all know heroes in Dota have names and titles. Sometimes one element hardly matters, for instance Warlock's name Demnok Lannik is completely irrelevant. But most of the time both elements belong together.

    Even Sven who is solely referred to as Sven by everybody provides a great deal of information and character traits through his title Rogue Knight. Slardar's unused tittle tells us he is a guard which he has ultimately become in Dota 2. Same goes the other way round, if the title of the hero becomes the primarily referred to element like Axe, the name still makes people feel attached to the hero Mogul Kahn. And many people switch between name/title freely like for Lanaya/TA (Templar Assassin).

    In most cases I wouuld hate to drop one element. I want both. And frequently the heroes need both.

    I would prefer a clear destinction between names and titles in the pick screen and a fixed place to look up the other element.
    Example:
    - for picking heroes it always shows the title
    - the name is always displayed first in the hero description before the title is repeated: N'aix the Lifestealer, Nevermore the Shadow Fiend, Sven the Rogue Knight, Traxex the Drow Ranger, etc.

    And we can also come up with new names if we have reason to change one element.

  • #2
    I'd like to see some consistency. Some heroes are named after their titles while others are named after their names in DotA. Like Kunkka is a name, but Sniper is a title.
    I think names would be much more fitting to use in many cases, like when they are picked and call out their own name, but titles are needed too to describe the heroes. Personally i think its a little lame that some heroes call out their title when getting picked. I imagine Messi call out "football player" to taunt his opponents, or Aragorn shout "Ranger" when charging the Nazgul.
    Steam: bQttger

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    • #3
      I agree there AT LEAST needs to be some consistency. Either use BOTH, the title, or the name, but don't mix them up.

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      • #4
        I disagree completely with consistency. Players aren't consistent about which they use to refer to the hero, so I see no reason to pick the less used one for the sake of consistency and confuse all the players.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Otter View Post
          I disagree completely with consistency. Players aren't consistent about which they use to refer to the hero, so I see no reason to pick the less used one for the sake of consistency and confuse all the players.
          The players might not be consistent in how they refer to heroes, but the game certainly is. In DotA 1 ALL heroes are labelled by their hero title in the taverns (except for Pudge, but that looks more like a mistake than intention), when picked the message which says "player xxx has chosen..." ALWAYS displays the hero title. And then the UI displays the name on the top and the title in the xp line.

          The players can easily decide on their own how they want to refer to heroes just like they have always done. That actually shows that despite the existing consistency players do pay attention to names and lore, maybe more than we would expect they do. They will use and continue to use whatever they want to, that's why it's important that both name and title are there.

          So if anything it is mixing up names and titles which will cause confusion, not the other way round.

          That's why I am all for consistency, title at the same spot for everybody, name at the same spot for everybody and both should be displayed. If we have issues with a couple of names or titles (otter mentioned Templar Assassin and Atropos for instance) we can adjust them if necessary, but don't mix.

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          • #6
            There's no reason for the game to not provide both options for the player to pick. I agree with Chair, consistency (between dota1 and dota2) is key.

            If we do feel like we need to remove consistencies within the name/titles themselves, that can come at a later time.

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            • #7
              I don't think we need to include both names. For instance, the chinese call alchemist GA, where in either of his names is there GA? Standardizing the names I think is more important then porting both names and some fun names.

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              • #8
                0 support for name AND title. No usefulness + confusing to new players.

                Old Player: Pick RK
                New Player: What is RK?
                Old Player: Rogue Knight
                New Player: Which hero is Rogue Knight?
                Old Player: The blue colored radiant strength hero which turns red during his ulti.
                New Player: That's Sven you noob.

                Originally posted by Chairraider View Post
                The players can easily decide on their own how they want to refer to heroes just like they have always done. That actually shows that despite the existing consistency players do pay attention to names and lore, maybe more than we would expect they do. They will use and continue to use whatever they want to, that's why it's important that both name and title are there.
                And that is a thing that should be fixed; not continued in Dota 2. I remember how hard it was for me to grasp multiple names (and short names) for all heroes when I started DotA.
                Last edited by CvP; 09-16-2011, 05:28 AM.

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                • #9
                  I don't think its absolutely necessary to port over name and title but I don't have a better solution. It's kind of clunky if each hero has to have two names displayed on every screen though

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                  • #10
                    -hhn hide heronames it was an option and can remain an option it doesn't change the fact we refer to certain heroes in a certain way

                    I support both names and "rank" so which heroes need adaptions. let's make a list:

                    Names:
                    - Rexxar
                    - Kaz Stonebull, Cairne Bloodhoef
                    - Azwraith
                    - Furion/Malfurion

                    Ranks:
                    - Tauren Chieftain
                    - The Slayer....
                    - Pandaren Brewmaster

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                    • #11
                      i think it would be better to say the other part of the hero when it's picked, like Clockwerk, when it's picked he says Rattletrap instead of Clockwerk

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                      • #12
                        When picked it should call it's "Rank" Clockwork Goblin, Goblin Tinker, Rogue Knight, but they should still have names....

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                        • #13
                          One name should be enough.

                          Dota 2 will be played by a lot of players who have never played the original DotA.
                          While some veterans will probably feel nostalgic for the multiple names patterned after Warcraft 3, setting up a standard name for each hero is the best way for the game.

                          Sven shall be Sven. His lore and dialogue would be enough to reveal that he is a Rogue Knight.

                          As for which name should be used - choose the most memorable / most iconic name for that hero.
                          Last edited by slugonice; 09-22-2011, 01:00 AM.

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                          • #14
                            by going for Sven, the Rogue Knight instead of just sven.... it's easier for oldfags to teach newfags

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                            • #15
                              Some of the titles work well on their own, like Broodmother, THE Broodmother, she's one of a kind but at the same time she's not human so not having a name works fine, but it really feels weird to have Shadow Shaman or Witch Doctor without an actual name(I mean these aren't even really titles, sounds more like professions, "eh what you up to? Well I'm aiming to become a witch doctor I'll be graduating in 2years now"). Crystal Maiden ends up between both, while it's a strong sounding title that works alright, but there's no mention of her actual name in hers or Lina's lore, instead she's mentionned as Crystal Maiden in both too, which sounds pretty weird.

                              While I can see why some names won't be able to be taken(Furion Stormrage being a WC3/WoW/Blizzard name for example), some others aren't quite as obvious(Rylai, is it because Guinsoo claimed it first in LoL or has special rights on it?). Either way, I feel every hero should be given a name assuming it fits for the lore, even if the name is slightly/completely different from the name in dota1. Then the picks and so on should only refer to their title, but their lore should refer to their names.

                              So you'd pick The Slayer, but the lore part would still refer to her as Lina. You could still not have to name creatures such as Broodmother, but you'd probably want to name Vengeful Spirit to give her interesting lore(she's probably the spirit of someone right, and that someone had a name). And yes that'd mean some names wouldn't fit when dota1 player say "focus furion" but furion was actually renamed to Pepito the Nature's Prophet because you couldn't use Furion, but if you want to build some solid lore I feel that's a problem you'd have to deal with.

                              Say what you want about LoL being a shitty game, they created some pretty interesting world, with multiple factions being on the verge of war but their champions fighting on the "Field of Justice" to try to solve the issues in a "pacific" way, and some champions having their own agendas and so on. Each champion has a pretty indepth story that ties in with other champions especially when they come from the same country and every week there's some kind of fake publication(Journal of Justice) which only point is narrating what happens in the world of LoL between the various champions and countries outside the map. Wars, intrigues, parties, alliances and so on. Also everytime they add a new champion(which is every 2weeks and most of the time some stupid tanky melee with no inherent weakness besides being slightly worse than the one they added before and just buffed, but I disgress), they do some special introduction thingie where they show the memories of that champion and why they're motivated to fight for their cause. This is separate and a lot better written than the actual lore you can read when picking the champion.

                              So yeah, assuming you want strong lore, in my opinion naming almost everything is going to be necessary. Some like Broodmother or Sand King maybe not, but you can't have humanoids/humans without names unless there's specifically something in the lore about it(Venomancer, unknown guy who morph into some monster and lose all traces of humanity, doesn't need an actual name).

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