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Dota 2 Cosmology - WIP

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  • #46
    well i figured most of the heroes that had their homelands mentioned that are not explicitly stated to be in another universe (well we got quite a few of those too) are from the same World that the DotA map is located in.
    But yess a bit clarification on that one would be nice.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Zordak View Post
      well i figured most of the heroes that had their homelands mentioned that are not explicitly stated to be in another universe (well we got quite a few of those too) are from the same World that the DotA map is located in.
      But yess a bit clarification on that one would be nice.
      I don't think all the different regions need to intersect each other in complex ways. Zeus is obviously an example of a complex intersection because he is not an all powerful god in the Dota map region, but some or many of the regions can also intersect with each other in simpler ways, such as just being bordering regions in a single plane, or sphere. So the heroes that are "humans" probably all live in regions that simply border each other like two regions on a map, for example.

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      • #48
        Great work with this lore. It's very unique and ties in perfectly with the continuity from "Tales from the Secret Shop." I can easily see myself reading more novels/graphic novels of stuff like this. I like that the Radiant/Dire conflict has this cosmic timelessness, and as a result of a cataclysm, this planet and its inhabitants are now wrapped up in it.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Lamprey View Post
          People are perhaps rightfully confused about how all these different cultures can exist without being neatly tied together; there is a natural impulse to organize and codify everything, especially in the context of games, where it so often comes down to numbers and stats. The universe of Dota 2 is in a crazy growth mode at the moment; the time will come when the landscapers move in and cut everything back and start trimming and pruning. Meanwhile, if you think of it as a typical two dimensional map of fantastic kingdoms, also add in a Z-axis involving the influence of other maps and other planes of existence. It's more like the Tree of Life of the Kabbalah, with different spheres of existence interpenetrating. The Dire and Radiant stones emit an influence in all these realms, which is why they are of concern to beings like Spectre...although it seems like some beings from outside the Dota universe might be pulled into the struggle involuntarily, simply due to the power of the stones.
          That sounds like the story in Soul Calibur 4, where the power and the strife of the two swords caught the attention of the Star Wars Empire. I know that was more like a non-canon crossover but the influence reaching other planes of existence thing still reminds me of that.
          I guess Omni Knight, Huskar, Blood Seeker etc are fighting for religions that were inspired by the myths about the Ancients?

          So far I really love what you thought of there. It would also be great to know how the world or rather universe of Dota is built up. There is hell, the underscape, earth (not ours), some sort of heaven with doughy gods like Zeus (I like his lore but do we really want to associate the lore with Greek mythology?), there are islands and valleys, a land where good and evil are reversed, tundras and desserts, a time-lord realm, different universes...
          I think a map or something would help to put all of that into context. I guess saying "The Ancients screw up reality" is enough of a reason but I would still love a world-map XD
          EDIT: Should have read more carefully...I was tired T~T
          Last edited by Cymen; 12-11-2011, 06:54 PM.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Lamprey View Post
            Maybe as suggested above: "And much as we embrace or reject our own cultures, some heroes might simply reject the influences they were exposed to early on...and be drawn to the opposite." Not sure. Denying is not something that would seem to have a compelling reason to have a fiction. I don't think every bit of gameplay needs to figure in the lore...unless it turns out to suggest something worth exploring, which is always possible.
            Maybe if we put it in a way that our heroes would have some solemn last words for denied allies for the greater cause at times.

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            • #51
              i think that the influence of the radiant and the dire could be something mystical to them, that can be seen in a diferent way for each culture but in the bottom its the same.
              this could divide heroes/stuff by race(evolution afected by location and dire/radiant energy) and Religion. Making it a crusade for some characters and a natural fight for some others.
              this would tie to the ecautions some basic premises:
              1. all cultures understand that some how that the Ancients, both Radiant and Dire, provide many benefits: kinetic energy, mana, protection, even resurrection, but they dont know much more about it.
              2. all cultures have diferent myths(religions:for example omniknight calls the radiant the omniciense) but in the bottom what they worship is the dire/radiant.
              3. one or more heroes can belong to the same culture but give diferent relevance to those myths. (omniknight bealives in omniciense and kunkka just doesnt care both being "humanlike")
              4. cultures or individual persons, develop diferent ways to use the energy given by dire/radiant. This ways might be biological not just as magic.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by gpardini00 View Post
                omniknight calls the radiant the omniciense
                I don't think Omniknight is refering to the Radiant when he says "The Omniscience". I think he's referring to something separate altogether, basically what he considers "god". He fights for the Radiant because he is drawn into the battle and swayed by it's power, but I don't think he worships it as if it's god. All the heroes have their own beliefs and cultures that are separate from the Radiant and Dire, while many of them also have their own beliefs about what the Radiant and Dire are.

                Originally posted by gpardini00 View Post
                omniknight bealives in omniciense and kunkka just doesnt care both being "humanlike"
                And just because Omniknight and Kunkka are both human-like doesn't mean they have to come from the same culture or region.

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                • #53
                  @invaderAmoto: yes i know omniciense is not radiant. but what i mean is that it would be really good for the lore if it was like that.
                  so each religion has a god with their own myths but in the bottom all those "gods" where the same ancient with diferente name...


                  what i meant with the kunkka / omniknight was just a weird example... what i meant was that more than one character can be from the same culture, but some may not bealive in the myths that make certain god of the radiant...

                  im sorry for my bad english, i hope im being clear..

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                  • #54
                    Grognardia is a fun site for people who like to think about world-building for games, especially as they draw on fantasy and SF literature, and especially-especially stuff with its roots in pulp.

                    http://grognardia.blogspot.com/

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                    • #55
                      What imprisoned The Dire and The Radiant in The Mad Moon, to begin with? You mentioned Primordials. I'm guessing these are extraplanars, who are either equal to or more powerful than The Dire and The Radiant.

                      If this is the case, then there are bound to be more Ancients than just The Dire and The Radiant. Maybe there is one for each element? If this is the case, then The Dire singifies Death, and The Radiant signifies Life. But not all of the heroes derive their powers from Death and Life. Weaver, for example, takes its powers from chaotic spacetime. Omniknight comes from Light, which could have corrupted a creature into becoming The Omniscience. Tidehunter's God, Maelrawn the Tentacular could be a creature corrupted by Water.

                      Really, there are 12 elements that are represented in Dota 2. Life, Death, Fire, Water, Arcane, Chaos, Wind, Earth, Energy, Demonic, Darkness and Light.

                      Just my ideas. I don't think all of the hero powers, even on the Dota world, could have stemmed from the corruption of The Mad Moon.

                      (Also, why not just call the planet they're on Dota?)

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                      • #56
                        actually im not a big fan of the idea of the ancients beeing "gods" or "elementals" id rather have a unique pantheon in DotA. i also like the fact that there are connections to earths own Pagan Pantheons such as Zeus and of course Mjollnir (wich is Thors Hammer) it would actually be kinda neat if there was more of that.

                        one thing i am realy impressed at is the fact that there are actually players caring about the lore. i didnt think that would be possible. In a certain other DotA based game a few people wanted a consistent lore and were laughed at, even by the developers.

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                        • #57
                          i think that lore is an oportunity for merchandise(comics, videos, products, etc...), to attract lots of diferent people and to increase the interactions between heroes(that is really fun for me at least).
                          also good lores give the oportunity to expand the game, like that we can dream of campains and good custom maps.

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                          • #58
                            I always thought of the ancients as being something not quite understandable, especially with the lore given here. They date back to the beginning of time at the earliest, and their very presence corrupts those around them. I don't think they're something as easy to classify as "gods" or "elementals." Rather, I think they're something that exists outside of our understanding, something that exists but can't be understood within the context of our limited mental constructs.

                            Also, Kinetic energy made me think of Haste. Does that mean the runes are manifestations of one or both of the Ancient's influence? Since the runes spawn in the river, I could see them being the result of the clash of energy exuded by the two ancients.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Zanas View Post
                              Also, Kinetic energy made me think of Haste. Does that mean the runes are manifestations of one or both of the Ancient's influence? Since the runes spawn in the river, I could see them being the result of the clash of energy exuded by the two ancients.
                              That's a very interesting idea. I like it.

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                              • #60
                                By the way, talking about the world itself... Am i the only one who presumes that different heroes are from different worlds?

                                That, for instance, Omniknight's Omniscience is not known of in any other realm, so Chen considers him an unworthy knight; similarly, Sven has no idea about Knights of the Fold. At the same time, some heroes may come from same worlds: Tinker, Clockwerk and Sniper come to mind first.

                                That would explain why some heroes know others just by their titles - like, Doom speaks to Raijin Thunderkeg, calling him Storm Spirit, because he is more known of under this title. I don't think he would be eager to find out more about his enemies' backgrounds. The battlefield is, likely, the place where most of them first met each other.
                                Last edited by 1337_n00b; 12-13-2011, 04:30 AM.
                                Heroes this user should seriously reconsider ever picking again.

                                THE DOTA 2 LORE MEGATHREAD IS TO BE UPDATED BY JULY 5TH

                                Visit the Dota 2 Lore Megathread. Renovation ongoing.

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