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A solution for all, ranked solo queue with no MMR

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  • A solution for all, ranked solo queue with no MMR

    I was going to write a wall of text but I will try to keep it brief points. At the moment there is a huge gap between so called serious play and pubs. The only real serious games are inhouse games (often have a huge skill floor) and also forming a team (which has both time and logistical issues for many). There is huge pressure from the community to implement a solo ranked ladder but also a visible way to view their progress and place on the scale more detailed than "normal", "high" or "very high" which are not accurate at all and absolutely no idea of progression. There is also the unwillingness from the devs to implement a visible mmr because of the conflict it would create in game. Here I will argue for a suitable compromise which will benefit the community as a whole.

    Firstly these are in my opinion the biggest problems with dota 2 at the moment

    -There are two very distinct groups of players: serious and casual.
    Both are put together which causes problems for both parties. Casual players are flamed for doing non conventional things and not taking the game as seriously. Serious players are forced to play with people who's goal is to have "fun" which is not always to win. Even if the two are matched together and have an equal "skill", there is a clear difference.

    -People do not understand why they are matched together.
    Thus gather a preconceived notion of their game success or a players skill based upon arbitrary metrics such as wins, hours spent etc.

    -Negative behavior (not communication) is not punished enough.
    Currently the only avenues for punishment are being muted or low priority.


    Here is my solution:

    -Solo ranked ladder matchmaking queue replaces the existing solo queue.
    By creating a serious game mode, you separate the players who want to win in competitive games from the players who don't care as much. A lot of games are lost rather than won by a team. I believe that a serious game mode would make games much closer because people know that they are expected to play their best including not picking heroes they aren't familiar with, playing their role (eg you pick a support hero, you need to act like a support).

    -Brackets and sub brackets with no visible MMR.
    People are clear that everyone is in the same skill level and also allows people their personal progression and place on the scale. Also transparent paths to advance higher. That is the core of what the community wants without the negative conflict that comes with comparing mmrs.

    -New game mode in the style of random draft where each team takes turn picking but with a complete hero pool.
    To be an effective ladder it needs to consolidate all of the players into a single game mode and all pick is not competitive enough and does not punish afking. Also, no random gold. Perhaps we could even see a single ban per person.

    -X game minimum (perhaps 50) to unlock this ranked solo ladder mode.
    This discourages multi accounting and trolling serious games. It gives value to accounts so that bans (whether temporary or permanent), are meaningful.

    -Separate, new report system specifically for ranked solo ladder.
    Replace all categories with a single category for negative behavior with the result being in a warning and then subsequently increasing length bans from the ranked ladder. Make it so commends counter reports. By doing this and encourage commending, we can mitigate the vast majority of abuse. Encourage commending by making it easier such as ability to one click commend from the end scoreboard. Give more commends than reports.

    Please add your feedback.
    Last edited by Buzzinowt; 08-13-2013, 11:28 PM.
    A solution for all (including devs): ranked solo queue without visible mmr (instead brackets).

  • #2
    http://dota2.n-gage.tv/

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    • #3
      3rd party ranking software will never replace the potential, genuine one.

      It just doesn't feel real and it means nothing.

      Public ranking, public MMR !!!

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      • #4
        never understood why this wasn't already done, what valve fail to realise is a ranked ladder means theres more chance of "good" teams being formed meaning more TI team possibilities although 100wins is a little extream, the way things work on dota, thats 200 matches, a lot just to get ranked matches maybe 75 matches PLAYED, would be enough for a skill set to be assigned and allow them to play ranked or not
        give ranked a discription STATING this is for the more serious players?
        Last edited by davidsalter; 08-13-2013, 03:08 AM. Reason: obne hand typis is hard work with icecream

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        • #5
          This is what I feel the game is really missing right now. TMM is good but I also want to solo queue sometimes and play seriously. Whenever I solo queue now it is hit or miss if people will play seriously or my whole team will random and dick around. Solo/Duo queue ranked needs to be added to give a complete matchmaking experience IMO.

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          • #6
            very good ideas, valve listen!!

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            • #7
              Also the idea that OP presented is great. I think the game mode should be like random draft too but with the full hero pool. However I think that there should still be a ban phase or something so that it becomes more competitive and strategic.
              Last edited by QQKachoo; 08-13-2013, 11:44 AM.

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              • #8
                Suggested before, still a great idea today. Valve needs to implement this soon.
                Ladder = gives players incentive towards winning. Encourages team work, cooperation, and less selfish play.

                Mute system = Discourages the majority of communication outside of miss calls, removes accountability, and gives bad players the ability to bully anyone they wish.

                Makes perfect sense to me when you consider that Valve wants to make the game as casual as possible in-order to compete with League of Legends and sell more hats.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Destro View Post
                  Suggested before, still a great idea today. Valve needs to implement this soon.
                  The ladder honestly gives me more incentive to play because I can see my progression.

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                  • #10
                    It's good to see this kind of threads around. Organized and exposing arguments.
                    The idea is not new at all, but still being a good thread.
                    +1

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                    • #11
                      wont work
                      we need visible MMR for a ranked queue else we just have another trashy casual queue
                      Never underestimate the power of the masses.

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                      • #12
                        I like it. Well thought out and reasonable. I've always been a big proponent of leaving ranking off everything, but I think this is actually an excellent compromise.

                        I agree with the proposed primary problems, and that this solution removes or mitigates all of them without negatively impacting players who aren't concerned with such a system. The only issue I see is that casual players who solo queue currently will now be forced to queue non-solo if they don't wish to participate in a ranked system. They'll now be forced to play against stacks, which some may not appreciate. If anyone on here is in that particular situation, I would be interested in hearing their opinions on that particular problem.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ranaki View Post
                          wont work
                          we need visible MMR for a ranked queue else we just have another trashy casual queue
                          The core of my idea is that it is clear that it is for serious play only and that people who do not take it seriously are removed from the queue (and cannot just create another account and join the ladder). A huge part of that would have to be balanced because of course everyone has a bad game now and then but I feel like a huge part of the problem people face with matchmaking is that some people don't care as much as others.

                          I kind of agree with both proponents of visible mmr and the devs who think this would create a conflict.
                          I think that brackets and subbrackets would be a suitable and more appealing solution to the devs and give serious gamers the core of what that want: to play with other serious players, compare themselves to the whole dota 2 community and also be able to see progress. Perhaps the highest brackets could also have a visible ladder and that would satisfy everyone?
                          A solution for all (including devs): ranked solo queue without visible mmr (instead brackets).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ArtificerProdigy View Post
                            I like it. Well thought out and reasonable. I've always been a big proponent of leaving ranking off everything, but I think this is actually an excellent compromise.

                            I agree with the proposed primary problems, and that this solution removes or mitigates all of them without negatively impacting players who aren't concerned with such a system. The only issue I see is that casual players who solo queue currently will now be forced to queue non-solo if they don't wish to participate in a ranked system. They'll now be forced to play against stacks, which some may not appreciate. If anyone on here is in that particular situation, I would be interested in hearing their opinions on that particular problem.
                            I definitely think this is a valid complaint. Initially I thought that the majority of people who wanted to play solo want to play seriously and the majority would go to the new queue. The only reason I said that it would be a good idea is because I feel like dividing the match making pool into 3 would fragment the player base too much.
                            A solution for all (including devs): ranked solo queue without visible mmr (instead brackets).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mathismight View Post
                              They do have a very good model but the player base is tiny and it is not an official matchmaking system so it will never be as good as an ingame system valve could create.
                              A solution for all (including devs): ranked solo queue without visible mmr (instead brackets).

                              Comment

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