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Add a forfeit function

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  • What is this about 'becoming' a teacher. As someone who has been trying to teach this notoriously recalictrant MOBA community for years (albiet not the best way), you realize 95% of players just would rather say 'stfu' or 'muted'. Someone tell me the last time they had a great student that turned into something positive in a MOBA. Exaclty. 95% of the community doesn't care because the sobering realiziation 'I'm bad' at this game is harder to come to than 'you're bad'. 5% of the players worth the time are too rare. Great idea on paper, sounds all flowerly and positive, will never happen because of player attitudes.

    Concede vote is a great function. Basically, to me, it says, if a game is 5-20 about 25 minutes in, their AM has a Bfury and Vanguard; your carry has nothing, you should be able to concede because THE GAME IS OVER. This is a fair analysis of the game. Holding me in another 25 minutes it a waste of my time. Maybe in that case, we need a vote kick function for you?

    It will not promote griefing; greifeing already exists. Any system you put in place will promote certain negative results, so analysis by others here is fundamentally flawed.

    If a game is over, it's over. People can be the judge of when the game is over, not you, and you certainly dont need to be holding games up. I'd rather be in and out of a quick game that's a loss than sit and linger in it for some morally self-righteous white knight to tell lecture me "Never give up!".

    If it is not implemented, people will eventually ask where it is. The idea isn't a 'defeatist' attitude, as prompted by more members of beta that clearly have more time on their hands than they know what to do with; the idea is that you can release players from an unenjoyable game which involved a complete smashing or a game that is over early and allow them to go on. I don't want to play Dota 2 if I have to sit rhough 20 more minutes of an unenjoyable smash.

    With that said, I'd be more worried about players react to hoarding KDR once stats get implemented, not 'promoting' a self-defeating function because everyone should have flowers, smiley faces and greeting cards when playind Dota 2. Get real.
    Last edited by KingRaven; 10-28-2011, 07:05 AM.

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    • Its stupid not want to have a concede option, is it better that half of the team sitting in well and wait for the other team to finnish? There is no good reason to not implement a concede option, why waist everyones time if a team have given up?

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      • please add this option urgent

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        • i honestly dont want a second hon.
          at hon u can see this conced thing totally fucked up, makes the community dumb as hell and destroys too much games.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by 1323 View Post
            i honestly dont want a second hon.
            at hon u can see this conced thing totally fucked up, makes the community dumb as hell and destroys too much games.
            Can you even show that it was because of concede?

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            • i have not played hon, so not sure how the concede system works there. but if you have strict set of conditions that must be triggered before the concede function becomes available then only truly hopeless games will be conceded. say for instance a team is down 30 kills the chances of them winning is basically 0%. couple that with the fact that half your team are going to/or want to quit at that point in the game, so trying to make a comeback from that far down is pointless. if you have 5 committed teammates and still want to try, then just don't trigger the concede. easy as that.

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              • Well, I guess forfeit option is good for cm games.

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                • Even teams give up too early most of the time and just concede, instead of trying their best. Pubs are even worse than that and just want to concede when 1 fight goes wrong or one of their teammates is not doing all so good.

                  Leave concede out of Dota2, it makes public games super short and prevents big comebacks, that aren't that unusual.

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                  • For those interested here is the list of thread on the League of Legends forum concerning League of Legends versions of conceding for about 6 months after it was introduced. It was introduced on (2010-07-06) http://na.leagueoflegends.com/learn/...y/surrendering. After surrendering was introduced the number of complaint about surrendering increased substantially. Both for people that wanted the option removed and for people who wanted the time you had to wait time for surrendering to be reduced.

                    @Developers

                    I'm sorry apparently no matter what you do you lose.

                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-11398.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-11513.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-11407.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-11971.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-12027.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-12249.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-12780.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-13058.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-13059.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-13260.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-13307.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-13423.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-13514.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-13526.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-13585.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-13593.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-13603.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-13899.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-13972.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-14148.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-14438.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-14490.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-14653.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-14708.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-14724.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-15247.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-15587.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-16004.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-16123.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-16345.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-16524.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-16618.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-16918.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-16930.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-16966.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-17053.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-17181.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-17242.html
                    http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...p/t-17281.html

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by BLABLAFU View Post
                      Even teams give up too early most of the time and just concede, instead of trying their best. Pubs are even worse than that and just want to concede when 1 fight goes wrong or one of their teammates is not doing all so good.

                      Leave concede out of Dota2, it makes public games super short and prevents big comebacks, that aren't that unusual.
                      it does not. put limits on concede. for instance concede might only become available after 25 minutes. or after 30 kill difference between the teams. or if all raxxes are down. and even when the option is available put it up to a in-game vote for the losing team.

                      lots of comments here are blindly condemning a forfeit/concede function because of a previous bad experience or just because they have never seen it done right. the fact is that some games reach a point where it is impossible to make a comeback, and to play another 15 minutes or more after you reach that point is unnecessary. that is why the concede function is a must.

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                      • Sorry, I only read the first 3 pages of this thread...

                        Originally posted by ForsakenBaken View Post
                        it does not. put limits on concede. for instance concede might only become available after 25 minutes.
                        I never played a game where there was a reason to concede before 25 minute anyway. Okay one, but in that case I would have won instead... *sigh*

                        Originally posted by ForsakenBaken View Post
                        or after 30 kill difference between the teams.
                        Makes feeding an appropriate strategy to end the game faster... And will cause the amount of griefers to increase significantly.

                        Originally posted by ForsakenBaken View Post
                        or if all raxxes are down.
                        Why do we have Tree/Throne then? Do you really think anyone would fight until the end? Maybe in ~0.001% of all games.
                        My DotA-experience: The host always (>90% of all games) leaves the game before his ancient gets destroyed, if he is losing.
                        Forfeiting will make a destroyed ancient be something only visible on Youtube videos.

                        Originally posted by ForsakenBaken View Post
                        and even when the option is available put it up to a in-game vote for the losing team.
                        Of course! lol.

                        Originally posted by ForsakenBaken View Post
                        the fact is that some games reach a point where it is impossible to make a comeback, and to play another 15 minutes or more after you reach that point is unnecessary. that is why the concede function is a must.
                        There is no point where you can't have a comeback. Everyone makes mistakes. If you killed that lvl 25 Anti-Mage while it was fountainfarming, (and if it can't buyback) then you suddenly have a high chance to win the game (destroying some towers or killing some of his now unprotected teammates within 90 seconds is completely possible).
                        This is not some theorycrafting, this is more or less what is happening in 50% of all my DotA-games.

                        The only thing I agree with is, that it should be prevented that a winning team wastes so much time.
                        That was the reason why I suggested this a long time ago:
                        http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...ay-in-the-game.

                        What else to say:
                        For me, a game where I play 1 vs 5 is still much better than to start a new game. I play the game to get better, and I learn more from losing, than from winning. If I'm faced with an unsolvable task, like soloing versus 5 enemy heroes, I still try to trick them and not to die. The point where it gets boring then is only, when the enemies are starting to waste my time = instead of pushing, they are jungling.

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                        • @typhox

                          that all sounds good in theory, but the reality is that once people think they are going to lose, they just quit. They don't want to stay another 15 minutes or more playing something they wont enjoy. i'm with you when you say you learn more from losing and don't want to quit, but the average player does not think that logical.

                          the conditions for forfeit i gave was just an example. the point i wanted to convey was that forfeit should not be easily available when the game is still up for grabs. This will force people not to give up so quickly.

                          as for kill difference and feeding: is that not what the new commend/report system is for?

                          i read the post you linked to and like the idea. i remember when they just announced dota 2 and there was talk about an experience/gamerscore type of thing for your profile, and your idea could tie in nicely with that.

                          i still think the forfeit function is needed, but agree with you more than this post might show. maybe the best way would be to use the forfeit function, commend/report and your idea (experience/rating type scenario) all in one. and now that i think about it, it really does cover most bases.

                          ps. link to announcement article i was referring to - link - http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...d-details.aspx

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by BLABLAFU View Post
                            Even teams give up too early most of the time and just concede, instead of trying their best. Pubs are even worse than that and just want to concede when 1 fight goes wrong or one of their teammates is not doing all so good.

                            Leave concede out of Dota2, it makes public games super short and prevents big comebacks, that aren't that unusual.
                            I can understand this attitude completely; I've had comebacks from 1 range rax vs full towers, and it felt epic as hell.. I even wanted to ff, and was playing in a public platform that had forfeit function. The comeback still happened- because one or two people were simply the type to never forfeit.

                            If forfeit requires 5, what's wrong with it?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by capgrass1 View Post
                              I can understand this attitude completely; I've had comebacks from 1 range rax vs full towers, and it felt epic as hell.. I even wanted to ff, and was playing in a public platform that had forfeit function. The comeback still happened- because one or two people were simply the type to never forfeit.

                              If forfeit requires 5, what's wrong with it?
                              The mental part it brings with it. You HAVE the option to give up, and when you have that and you don't want to play anymore you will just stop trying. (some may not do that)

                              Comment


                              • the problem is, when it needs 5 to ff there will always be some idiots/trolls/whatever, when 1 dont ff they say "okay im afk" "okay i feed" buying mass chicks, alrdy had that several times in hon.

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