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Add a forfeit function

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  • People stop trying to win because their team is extremly annoying by telling him to forfeit and spamming forfeit votes.

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    • Originally posted by MajinCilos View Post
      The ONLY argument I've seen against the forfeit is: Games end too early when they could have tried to win.

      If five people on one team decide that the game is over and they want to leave, should they be able to? Yes. Why? THEY WANT TO.
      exactly. +1.

      couple this with a time limit (and some other conditions for the truly hopeless games) so people don't give up too soon and a system that rewards you for staying till the end of the game, maybe experience or some type of gamerscore, and people will think twice about using forfeit.

      edit: @blab - put a limit on calling a forfeit, same as the pause function (maybe even a daily limit as well). also the report function is there for players intentionally feeding.
      Last edited by ForsakenBaken; 11-02-2011, 01:06 PM.

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      • Originally posted by BLABLAFU View Post
        and spamming forfeit votes.
        Don't make it spammable?

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        • Make forfeit only available 25 min into the game (and maybe if the gold-difference is too big to catch up on)

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          • Originally posted by ForsakenBaken View Post
            and a system that rewards you for staying till the end of the game, maybe experience or some type of gamerscore, and people will think twice about using forfeit.
            This.
            But it will screw up the forfeit option then -.-
            let's think about it. 3 people want to have reward for staying to the end, 2 people want to forfeit. What now?
            Edit: Works also 1 vs 4...

            Originally posted by Chrys View Post
            Don't make it spammable?
            lol, then they will just spam "forfeit pls!!!!" into the text/voice-chat. Just results in more flaming and thus in more reports.

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            • Just dropping it here: I haven't had the need for forfeit once in the beta so far, IIRC. I kinda like it the way that people know they either play or well... some go afk or just leave. But those kind of people won't be adressed by forfeits anyway, so ... I wouldn't be too unhappy if Valve waits and sees if it will be even needed after the report system is fully implemented.

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              • Originally posted by mr.ioes View Post
                Just dropping it here: I haven't had the need for forfeit once in the beta so far, IIRC. I kinda like it the way that people know they either play or well... some go afk or just leave. But those kind of people won't be adressed by forfeits anyway, so ... I wouldn't be too unhappy if Valve waits and sees if it will be even needed after the report system is fully implemented.
                I love this kind of open mindness
                sigpic

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                • Originally posted by ForsakenBaken View Post
                  exactly. +1.

                  couple this with a time limit (and some other conditions for the truly hopeless games) so people don't give up too soon and a system that rewards you for staying till the end of the game, maybe experience or some type of gamerscore, and people will think twice about using forfeit.

                  edit: @blab - put a limit on calling a forfeit, same as the pause function (maybe even a daily limit as well). also the report function is there for players intentionally feeding.
                  Is there something difficult to understand about how irrelevant a time limit is? People that get discouraged and give up aren't going to be less discouraged or not feel like giving up just because the game doesn't let you surrender at that moment in time; it only makes them wait for the time to put the vote up. A time limit will do nothing. This discussion should be about a forfeit function and the impact it will have, not the stipulations that would be around it should it exist.

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                  • ^ if the forfeit function has a time limit 25 minutes or whatever, people will just afk/feed/flame/leave if they think the game is lost in say the first 15 minutes until the 25 minute mark, then they will concede.

                    I for one am against the forfeit function all together. BUT, i'm starting to think more and more, that letting people just leave a game might be a better option. i know i've argued against it so much in the past. But i'm starting to wonder if it will be an issue when the ai control comes in to play for leavers.

                    If anyone who disconnects can have their hero controlled by ai. (Assuming the ai is actually an average player ) then anyone who really wants to leave a game, should be able to i think. What's the use of a forfeit vote if people on your team can just leave. People who want to stay and finish the game can with bots, and the enemy team still gets to finish out their game.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by sterls View Post
                      I for one am against the forfeit function all together. BUT, i'm starting to think more and more, that letting people just leave a game might be a better option. i know i've argued against it so much in the past. But i'm starting to wonder if it will be an issue when the ai control comes in to play for leavers.
                      yes, interesting aspect. Though it also has the downside that the AI might be better than the player before so that if you have a noob at your team, some people might try to do everything to kick him out so they get a bot.
                      I personally would like a "new" player more than a bot though... tbh i hate bots at all^^
                      But I'd like it to be able to continue when some of my team mates already given up.

                      So I'd prefer a free-to-leave system over a forfeit-system, but I still don't like a free-to-leave system.

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                      • ya, i've hated leavers for so many years now its hard to imagine it being ok. But i started trying to think about other games that are online. First person shooters for example. You're free to come and go as you please in public servers. You can join halfway through a game, and leave before it over. But because there are no heroes, or levelling up, it doesn't matter what team your on and stuff, so long as the server auto-balances the teams, everything is fine. And most of all, the community doesn't hold anything against a player that decides to disconnect for any reason. There is no raging that "so and so left the game, so there was 1 more counter-terrorist then on the terrorist team (using counter-strike as an example)" This got me to thinking, that maybe leavers ruining a game was a WC3 problem, that Valve can solve. Maybe the best solution isn't trying to make people stay in the game til the end ( because they dont want abandons or matchmaking bans ), or giving them the option to forfeit ( the game ends, the winning team doesn't get to finish out the game, and there are problems with forfeit that have been discussed in this thread. ). Maybe Valve needs to come up with a solution that allows people to leave whenever they want, but stop it from ruining the game for anyone else.

                        If the Ai system was smart enough that the "difficulty level" of the bot scaled based on the current stats of the player in the game, that could alleviate any "imbalance" based on is the bot better or worse then the person who left. If the player who leaves is a carry who is 5-0, with 400+ gpm, the most CS on the map, and like 30 denies. To keep the game consistent for everyone, the bot would have to be an insane difficulty one. But if the player who leaves was say 0-5, with only 10 cs, no denies, no wards bought, and less then 150 gpm. The bot would be closer to what the current bots are now, pretty dumb, but able to do a few basic things like defend a tower in a push, and push a tower when needed.

                        In this sort of example, if someone were to leave at the picks or in the first 2 minutes, i'd say the bot difficulty would have to be random, mostly because no one knows if the person was going to have a good game or not and there isn't any data to support which.

                        TLDR; We can all agree that Leavers are currently a problem. People just dont want to stay in a game they aren't having fun in. Whether its because they are feeding, whether another friend logged on they want to play with, because an emergency popped up, or whether they are just raging. I think we can all agree, that everyone no matter who you are, has "wanted" to leave a game at least once. Maybe forcing people to stay in a game that they aren't having any fun in isn't the right solution. Could a good AI system replacing leavers solve this issue to some extent? Would people stop hating/flaming/raging at people for leaving a game because the game isn't ruined without them anyway?

                        Discuss
                        Last edited by sterls; 11-02-2011, 04:00 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Nice dream
                          AI just won't ever get clever enough to be able to find out how good a player is I think. That's just because Gamecreating companies usually don't have more than 1 or 2 people who know something about artificial intelligence (in many cases afaik they have not a single person). (I have a very good link that explains the issue but sadly it's in German^^)

                          Comment


                          • i disagree, i worked for EA Sports before coming to Disney interactive, we had several ai programmers on our Decision tree for the NHL franchise, and FIFA has 350+ people on the team, 15 of which were gameplay engineers who specialized in artificial intelligence. Look at any RTS company, Relic entertainment did the Dawn of War series, i personally know 3 of the engineers there that do Ai because we graduated from university together.

                            Now Valve isn't an RTS company, but the Ai dota1 maps back around version 5.47/5.49 were absolutely insanely hard. It was utterly impossible to win if they picked chaos knight or sand king. They always had about 40+ denies, and they always pushed as a team, usually got rax in about 25 minutes. That was even with super towers on, and giving the ai half the gold and xp that they normally got. They chained stuns perfectly, and they had precalculated if they could kill you or not, if they could kill you, they would. That ai was done by a scripter, not even an engineer.

                            Anyways, my point is, with a little bit of research, IceFrog probably has the contact, they can easily get someone to write a decent DTree for each of the heroes. Considering they already have a semi-decent start on several heroes, i dont see it being a problem having done near launch. Even post-launch, what else is everyone going to be working on? hats? it doesn't take a team of 60 people to make new heroes.

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                            • Valve has ChrisC as their main AI guy, and he is doing a pretty awesome job thus far.

                              There's hope.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by sterls
                                ^ if the forfeit function has a time limit 25 minutes or whatever, people will just afk/feed/flame/leave if they think the game is lost in say the first 15 minutes until the 25 minute mark, then they will concede.

                                I for one am against the forfeit function all together. BUT, i'm starting to think more and more, that letting people just leave a game might be a better option. i know i've argued against it so much in the past. But i'm starting to wonder if it will be an issue when the ai control comes in to play for leavers.

                                If anyone who disconnects can have their hero controlled by ai. (Assuming the ai is actually an average player ) then anyone who really wants to leave a game, should be able to i think. What's the use of a forfeit vote if people on your team can just leave. People who want to stay and finish the game can with bots, and the enemy team still gets to finish out their game.
                                I am totally against your idea.
                                Basically you want to do the same thing that destroyed DOTA1's pub games(First blood and rage quit)? People leaving games when they want?
                                and I refuse to play with bots in a multiplayer online game. I really hate this idea.

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