Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules

  • No flaming or derogatory remarks, directly or through insinuation.
  • No discussion, sharing or referencing illegal software such as hacks, keygen, cracks and pirated software.
  • No offensive contents, including but not limited to, racism, gore or pornography.
  • No excessive spam/meme, i.e. copious one liners in a short period of time, typing with all caps or posting meme responses (text/image).
  • No trolling, including but not limited to, flame incitation, user provocation or false information distribution.
  • No link spamming or signature advertisements for content not specific to Dota 2.
  • No Dota 2 key requests, sell, trade etc.
  • You may not create multiple accounts for any purpose, including ban evasion, unless expressly permitted by a moderator.

  • Please search before posting. One thread per issue. Do not create another thread if there is an existing one already.
  • Before posting anything, make sure you check out all sticky threads (e.g., this). Do not create new threads about closed ones.
  • It is extremely important that you post in correct forum section.

  • Balance discussion only in Misc.
  • All art related (such as hero model) feedbacks go to Art Feedback Forum.
  • All matchmaking feedback should go here: Matchmaking Feedback
  • All report/low priority issues should go here: Commend/Report/Ban Feedback
  • No specific workshop item feedback. These should go to workshop page of that item.
  • When posting in non-bugs section (such as this), use [Bugs], [Discussion] or [Suggestion] prefix in your thread name.



In case you object some action by a moderator, please contact him directly through PM and explain your concerns politely. If you are still unable to resolve the issue, contact an administrator. Do not drag these issues in public.



All rules are meant to augment common sense, please use them when not conflicted with aforementioned policies.
See more
See less

Add a forfeit function

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by solo123 View Post
    Well you see the thing with HoN is that if you encounter a terrible game like 20 - 4 at the start with their carry or ganker 5 levels above you and they have complete map control and constantly gank you; you want to concede in 15 mins and move on to a better game instead of dragging it out for 40 mins and still lose badly.

    We need some system to prevent early game forfeit spamming at the same time retain an early game forfeiting function for times when it is clear you have lost.
    *laughs* You still did not explain what makes forfeiting better than just allow leaving?
    I guess it's because ff has absolutely NO advantage over leaving?

    The reason why you could want a forfeit system mustn't be to end a game earlier, but to prevent people from leaving a game early (and allow leaving only when the whole team sees no chance).
    But I don't see ANY example where forfeiting helps the game.
    If you just want to be able to end a game when it's lost, just allow leaving and everything is fine -.- And Leaving has the advantage over forfeiting that you actually don't ruin the game THAT much for the other players as forfeiting does.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Arkane View Post

      ...often I've been grateful for the one or two people who eventually bail on a game where the enemy is dominating yet refuses to push. with the introduction of the low priority pool but no concede function, all of us are effectively handcuffed to our games until the throne dies.

      That's not very fun, especially if all 5 of us have given up hope yet the opposing team opts to slowly torture us, farm the fountain, never push, etc. all of that intentional game-prolonging (which was such a grey area in TDA, I know).


      That is spot on Arkane. I agree 100% because it is true. Extremely one-side games may not be very common in high level games but it's pretty common in low to middle-high level games.

      If we are punished for leaving then no forfeiting option just means that our team may be punished anyway if our enemy team are not very nice. If they decide not to push but control the entire map to gank us or maybe fountain farm us for 20 minutes before ending the game then we are at their mercy. That's not very newbie friendly or fun at all.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by solo123 View Post
        If we are punished for leaving then no forfeiting option just means that our team may be punished anyway if our enemy team are not very nice. If they decide not to push but control the entire map to gank us or maybe fountain farm us for 20 minutes before ending the game then we are at their mercy. That's not very newbie friendly or fun at all.
        If you play THAT bad that you get 20/4 before 15 minute mark or that you lose that hard, then it's only fair that you get punished! It should force you to think about that and to suck not that hard next time.
        Especially when you play matchmaked ranked games you're playing against teams that are supposed to be as strong as yours. If you suck so hard in a game, then it's for sure not just the fault of your other teammates.

        Besides that in a serious game, with 20/4 after the 20 minute mark you have still a high chance to win.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Typhox View Post
          If you just want to be able to end a game when it's lost, just allow leaving and everything is fine -.- And Leaving has the advantage over forfeiting that you actually don't ruin the game THAT much for the other players as forfeiting does.

          A vote system for allowed leaving seems better than forfeiting. There's one potential problem I can see with an allowed leaving system. If a vote for allowed leaving is passed, then the game becomes very skewed and imbalanced for statistic purposes. If 3 people voluntarily left your team and 5 of the enemy team are still in the game. They may just constantly feed off the other 2 to boost their statistics.

          In fact, I would agree with you an allowed leaving system is better than forfeiting system, but the game should officially end when an allowed leaving vote has passed to stop unreliable game statistics to be recorded.
          Last edited by solo123; 11-04-2011, 08:18 AM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by solo123 View Post
            unreliable game statistics to be recorded.
            K/D-Statistics aren't recorded. And should never be. If they did you would have far more serious problems than this one ^^

            And a game which was lost with 5v5 is usually also lost on 5v3, except you're playing on beginner level and the leavers get replaced through Overpowered AI.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Typhox View Post
              If you play THAT bad that you get 20/4 before 15 minute mark or that you lose that hard, then it's only fair that you get punished! It should force you to think about that and to suck not that hard next time.

              Besides that in a serious game, with 20/4 after the 20 minute mark you have still a high chance to win.

              Not necessarily true, it really depends on what hero you picked and where and who you lane with. You may be a highly skilled player but maybe two or three of their players are friends and are good and do a roaming-gank strategy and wins the early game constantly ganking and killing. Even after you bought tps to stop them it may not be enough if your tms dont help you. It's not really your fault so why should you get punished?

              Also in a serious game, if you feed the other team 20/4 especially their carry or semi carry it's very unlikely you will win. If you feed Na'vi 20/4 in 20 minutes do you really think you're going to win?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by solo123 View Post
                Not necessarily true, it really depends on what hero you picked and where and who you lane with. You may be a highly skilled player but maybe two or three of their players are friends and are good and do a roaming-gank strategy and wins the early game constantly ganking and killing. Even after you bought tps to stop them it may not be enough if your tms dont help you. It's not really your fault so why should you get punished?
                Never happened to me within my last 1000 games.
                So I can't argue on that. But yes, if you lose hard, then it's your fault... If they are three friends you should still be able to kill number 4 and 5.

                Originally posted by solo123 View Post
                If you feed Na'vi 20/4 in 20 minutes do you really think you're going to win?
                Bad example. I would lose even if I was 20/0 within the first 2 minutes.

                Comment


                • I don't know what you are playing. I have played hundreds of dota games and literally thousands of hon games since the beta. Maybe it doesnt happen much in dota but the way matchmaking works in hon is that sometimes you get a team with mostly random players agaisnt a team with 2-3 friends and 2 randoms. This is very bad because sometimes individually your team may be more skilled but if the 2-3 friends have superior early game strategy they may cause the game to become very one-sided.

                  I am speaking more for the low-mid level games here. I got up to pretty high level games and I almost never have that happen anymore. So when I say this Im speaking more for the inexperienced players. Maybe this is a reflection of an inherent flaw with hons matchmaking system allowing too many friends to be agaisnt a team of mostly randoms. Its effect may be apparent in low-mid level games but may be inconsequential in high level games. However, Im sure this is also a common problem in dota and I've already seen some dota 2 games like this.

                  For example, I have met these 2 friends who are pretty good in dota 2 beta that I get matched a lot. Every time I am against them we usually lose whereas when I am with them we usually win.
                  Last edited by solo123; 11-04-2011, 08:49 AM.

                  Comment


                  • I never played HoN...
                    On Japanese Garena Rooms I can say I often play against "clans" or just groups of friends (usually 5) and the chance to win such a game equals pretty much the chance to win against every single player of them. So far I didn't notice that friends really play (much) better than just randoms.
                    But that might be different on other Regions/Rooms/Platforms...

                    Did you know that they (planned to make matchmaking to) divide same group-size of parties to the sides?
                    For example you have 2+2+1, then your enemies are also 2+2+1.
                    If you have 4+1, then your enemies are also 4+1.
                    Probably not working right now as there aren't enough players for this feature, but at least it was ANNOUNCED.

                    Comment


                    • alright good, hopefully dota 2's matchmaking is better. I really never liked hon's matchmaking I think it has a lot of problems. Btw, where did you hear about the allowed leaving idea? It's good. I think it's better than forfeiting system. Myabe Ill make a new thread to ask people what they think or vote.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by solo123 View Post
                        In fact, I would agree with you an allowed leaving system is better than forfeiting system, but the game should officially end when an allowed leaving vote has passed to stop unreliable game statistics to be recorded.
                        Your leaving system IS a forfeit system. Once the vote passes the game ends and the voting team loses. How is this better?

                        Comment


                        • I've read this whole topic, and TBH I'm shared between the 2 point of views.

                          On one side, I'm a warrior and I'll fight till the end. I hate when someone just GGs when we're only 5 kills behind, how many games did I win when we were loosing kill counts. Yesterday I even lost a game when we had +10 kills only cause we didn't have a single late game hero. So... I think it would be bad to get a surrender function cause ppl tend to conceed too fast when it's not really done.

                          On the other side, when the game is plain over aka, your team is 20 kills behind, the ennemies have 1-2 sets of rax pushed and you have yet to damage the first set of towers.... the game is just plain over. In this case I would like to get a surrender function to start another game.

                          So basicaly here is what I think should happen:

                          You can surrender only if:

                          1. Kill count difference is over 15
                          2. Tower count difference is over 3
                          3. At least 1 set of rax must be down/pushed
                          4. Game timer should be at least 20mins
                          5. At least 4 out of 5 players must agree to surrender

                          instead of the 1.2.3. you could say that.. teams have ~12,000 gold difference

                          Comment


                          • In the end, I think that FF option should exist under specific circumstances.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Konsume View Post
                              On the other side, when the game is plain over aka, your team is 20 kills behind, the ennemies have 1-2 sets of rax pushed and you have yet to damage the first set of towers.... the game is just plain over. In this case I would like to get a surrender function to start another game.
                              So you're one of those impatient people who leave the game 2 minutes before it is over...
                              When you pressed the Start-button were you expecting that you will play 40 minutes?
                              Why then leave/concede already after 30 minutes? (rhetorical)
                              I mean you expected the game being long so why complain when it's finally long, even if it is actually shorter than expected?
                              I know it's because it does not make fun to lose. You don't have to answer the questions above (I'm pretty sure I know the answers anyway).

                              What I want to say is: Please don't argue with "the game is over faster, so I have more time". You could also vote then for a double-speed-semi-forfeit, where as soon as your conditions are met and everyone agrees, the game continues in double speed (which would not work of course because of other "problems" with that kind of feature^^)

                              Originally posted by Konsume View Post
                              You can surrender only if:

                              1. Kill count difference is over 15
                              2. Tower count difference is over 3
                              3. At least 1 set of rax must be down/pushed
                              4. Game timer should be at least 20mins
                              5. At least 4 out of 5 players must agree to surrender

                              instead of the 1.2.3. you could say that.. teams have ~12,000 gold difference
                              You said you read the whole thread. So you should know that some points of these are VERY abusable.
                              1. feeding
                              2. not destroying any towers (both sides can abuse this), and tower difference >= 4 will happen in ~no games.
                              3. reasonable, but the winning team can also just not destroy the raxes. HOWEVER if the winning team now dies while fontain farm, you are in a situation called "comeback".
                              4. Reasonable
                              5. getting a 5/5 vote is actually very hard. Also it clearly encourages flaming and makes it profitable.

                              Comment


                              • An issue that is coming up alot in this thread is that people want to forfeit, because the other team is so far ahead that the game is lost, but they wont push and they are dragging the game out, or they are fountain farming, just racking up kills without pushing the other lanes. I think there should be an anti fountain farming system implemented, this would remove the motivation for people to do anything but push if they are so far ahead that the other team is afk in the fountain.

                                So here's my proposal:

                                Any hero that respawns after death, is immune to all damage, and untargettable by any spells on the other team, and un-hookable by any spells on the other team, until they either leave the fountain, cast any spells, or attack any units. If people can't attack people in the fountain, or hook them out, or try and force staff them out, or swap them out, then there is no benefit to camping the fountain, they can't do any damage so they can't kill anyone unless they fight back. So what will the team that's winning do? well they can go farm if they want more items, but if the losing team isn't leaving the fountain, there is nothing for them to kill anymore, so they will most likely just push and end the game.

                                Obviously, this buff that makes people invulnerable only exists when the person respawns after death, and doesn't apply to anyone who has left the fountain and returned to it without dying.

                                If your team is losing 20-4 and the other team has no reason to try and kill you in your fountain, then you dont have to leave, they can push if they want, and the game isn't ruined for them. If anyone on your team thinks they can make a comeback, they are free to do so by defending, who knows maybe your carry will get a triple kill and end up turning it around.

                                If we had a system like this then would we still need a forfeit? if the other team is basically forced to push because there is nothing else for them to do, the game isn't being dragged out, its just being finished properly.

                                Now i realize this is basically allowing people to AFK in fountain safely, which could be considered as bad as being a leaver. But the main difference is that the enemy team can't kill you. So they have no motivation to drag the game out.

                                Discuss.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X