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Add a forfeit function

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  • Originally posted by vladhood View Post
    can anyone who is not a defeatist say that this has happened to them? because this used to happen to me in hon often and i STILL haven't seen this done in dota 2 once
    once or twice but it didn't take more then 5-10 min to push again and finish the game, in hon you are doing this because everyone can see your stats, and who wants to play with a low-stat guy, in here hopefully you are going to be the only one who can see your stats
    System #1 Spec for Bug Reporting:_____System #2 Spec for Bug Reporting:
    CPU: Intel Core Duo T2300______________á.CPU: Intel I7-3770K
    GPU: ATI Mobility X1600________________á_GPU: Nvidia GTX-670
    RAM: DDR2 667 2GB__________________iiáááRAM: DDR3 1600 16GB
    OS: Win7 Ultimate 32bit___________________Win7 Ultimate 64bit
    Res: 720p_______________________________.Res: 1080p

    Net: 25Mbit/1,5Mbit


    • Time to man up.


      • Originally posted by vladhood View Post
        can anyone who is not a defeatist say that this has happened to them? because this used to happen to me in hon often and i STILL haven't seen this done in dota 2 once
        Here. Happened to me. Well, it was actually one of my team-mates (Russian if you want to know but anyway...) who dragged this game so long. We weren't able to push the enemy base without him (yes, the enemies weren't giving up as well), so he was wasting OUR time. Actually not a big problem though. We just reported him (he also wrote things like "fuck you" etc) and put intentional dragging into the "comment" field of the report.
        I think this is the best way you can do - Just report everyone who is not playing seriously.


        • Originally posted by tikshow View Post
          if you are forfeit every game what you think you are going to lost, then you never be a good dota player, nearly every good thing is happening after the 30 min mark
          Good dota player? Who cares? Him? He want to get pleasure from game. Others? They dont care cos he will be in down of ladder.
          What will be if Doom will eat creep in which has sat down N'aix?
          How to win game against Zeus in -WTF mode?


          • That is some painful engalishu to read.

            My response - not everyone like you wanting to be a good DoTarD plaer like you Mr DoTarD Pro .


            • Originally posted by vladhood View Post
              can anyone who is not a defeatist say that this has happened to them? because this used to happen to me in hon often and i STILL haven't seen this done in dota 2 once
              i've had that happen.

              antimage full item capped, we have no late game and are 100 years behind him in terms of farm but he refuses to push.
              We can hold off his team 4v5, so they're as annoyed with him as we are.

              eventually we afk in base and let the 4 push down the ancient but its a ridiculous situation that we shouldn't be forced to sit through


              • Don't want a f*cking ff system like HoN everygame 15min then cc......


                • Originally posted by samich View Post
                  i've had that happen.

                  antimage full item capped, we have no late game and are 100 years behind him in terms of farm but he refuses to push.
                  We can hold off his team 4v5, so they're as annoyed with him as we are.

                  eventually we afk in base and let the 4 push down the ancient but its a ridiculous situation that we shouldn't be forced to sit through
                  Nearly every good thing is happening after the 30 min mark. Noob you nots know?


                  • Some people don't want to improve and just want to play, don't hurt the majority of your community.
                    I play IH exclusively and have no problem either way but theres a reason I don't play MM anymore and this is one of them.
                    The fiddler from Chagalls village was inviting me to dance... so I danced.


                    • I have merged a couple of threads on forfeiting when the primary thread was still open and it got eventually closed because basically everything was repeating itself and all the thread did was creating animosity, flames and bad feelings because of the inability of people to understand (or even trying to understand) a different point of view. And every time there would have been a chance for some serious discussion it got drowned by the masses of people who don't care for a discussion or for what the feature does to the game but who simply want to push their own agenda/opinion.

                      Having said that I am actually going to re-open the thread again, maybe the discussion is going to be a bit less emotional now that some time has passed. But if this thread turns into non-constructive opinion bashing I will close it again.


                      • pros of having no ff:
                        - perfectly fine for games with players of equal skill levels and decent picks
                        - no begging of people that other people in their team should ff
                        - you get to see the winning animations

                        cons of having no ff:
                        - the game drags on for a long time for both teams, the dominating tea might decide to play it safe and just control the map, farm everywhere and go for their secure win; the losing team has wait for the dominating team to decide to finish it; onesidedness can originate from imbalanced picks, which you are bound to encounter in pubs from time to time -> wasting time, boring
                        - players idling at fountain, or if that gets reportable, I expect intentional feeding (just without making it too obvious) to end the game faster
                        specs for bugreports:
                        AMD Radeon HD 8750M
                        win 7


                        • I just hope Valve and specially IceFrog is reading all of this... otherwise there is no point on continuing with it's feedback.

                          Since he already made a statement about this I would like him to just pay attention to this.

                          There is not a SINGLE game during this beta that I play where people don't wait in the base for AT LEAST 5 minutes (I would say a maximum of 15) for the other team to finish the match. In some of those, the other team just wants to punish their enemy (or just get some free kills, even without any stats counting) and then they keep getting kills in the fountain. Some times is just frustrating to lose a game, and being punished having to wait a ton till the other team decides to finish it is bad. I just makes people more mad and with a high chance of not playing anymore because of the frustration.

                          Besides that, there are those games where the enemy team leaves at the beginning, and 1 or 2 people stays in the game, afraid of getting an abandon, then you have to keep playing and waste 15 or more minutes to finish a horrible game if you want to get a win, wich should get you higher on skill lvl for the matchmaking system (don't know how it's working for now, but this is the only thing I think could be counting...sry if I'm wrong, but most of the players probably think this too, more wins, better place on MM).

                          People are saying that in HoN games finished prematurely... The concede vote system asked for 5 (FIVE, your whole team) players for the concede to happen. If you DON'T WANT TO concede, YOU DON'T NEED TO DO IT! The system started to need only 4 people after 30 minutes in the game, wich I think this numbers could change without a problem, but I don't have anything against HoN's numbers. This time was good not only because people would never want to concede the game, even if it was lost, but because there are a TON of bad manners and trollers who just wanna fck the whole game for their team and just don't concede for them to be more punished. (and this happens in Dota 2 too. You can't just ask for everyone to leave so you wont get an abanddon, because there is 1 guy that wont)

                          A concede/fonfeit function not only make things easier to handle for teams that are losing a game, but it also helps to stop with the bad mannering and this kind of stuff. People wont get more mad each time they play the game, if they are losing they will just need to finish the game. And this is not only good for the people who are losing the game. I lost the count of times that I wanted the other team to just concede because it was more than over (like 30/5) and they just couldn't do anything, we then lost 10 minutes finishing a game that was already won.

                          It's just more than obvious for me that this game needs this system working asap. It seems that some people just don't understand that if you don't want to concede the game wont end, at least not untill some good gameplay time. In HoN AND in LoL this system works. I can prove this because in 70% (or more) of the matches you play on those games, it finished with a concede, sometimes even when you are already at the enemy fountain. Because people don't like to keep dying, people don't like to feel that their time is being wasted.

                          If you still have second thoughts about adding this function to this game Valve/IceFrog, just TEST IT. It's in beta for this purpose. Implement this, see what people's feedback is, and if most don't like it, just erase it from the game. It's simple.


                          • I think that a lot of people underestimate the negative aspects of having a vote scenario. A vote can't simply be viewed as a vote in this environment. Let's say we need 5 people to agree: what happens when only 4 people vote to forfeit and one insists to play? Flame ensues in 95% of the cases. We've seen it, we've been there with switch. However many people it needed to pass the vote in the history of the game, if it fell short by 1 or 2 votes, then the game was completely ruined, because those who voted in favor of the switch showed absolutely no respect for the opinion of those who voted against it. That's because they were the majority, but failed to understand that this is not a majority but a "supermajority" kind of vote. This exact scenario will happen with a ff vote with either 5 or 4 people needed to forfeit, because if it happens to be only 4 or 3 people in favor, they'll feel like since they are the majority, their will needs to happen. And let's be honest, ff vote with a simple majority is not an option, 3 people should never be enough to surrender.

                            I can absolutely understand that forfeiting would be a good feature to have at times, but this issue outweighs every good aspect of it. It would really just create a lot of flame.

                            So just to recap, the core of the problem is that peope will never be content with a supermajority vote when they consist only a simple majority.


                            • There were a lot of problems with this thread. The first and biggest one is that people used the way HoN handles concedes to be the only way to do it, and the entire argument was based off the implicit assumption that it was the only way to do a CC vote. Which it isn't.

                              First and foremost, the concede vote should be a silent and blind vote. The other team shouldn't know you're doing it, your team shouldn't know how the votes are cast. This immediately removes any troll value in the function.

                              Secondly, the ability to concede is essentially a way of letting a team judge if they have any chance of winning. Clearly, some players are terrible at this and consistantly throw concedes in games like HoN. There is no reason to allow concede at all levels of play, however once a certain standard is reached, not allowing the concede vote is patronising and insults the intelligence of the (often extremely experienced) player.

                              Thirdly, the concede vote merely replicates a feature found in most DotA leagues and every DotA tournament. The forfeit rules could still be found in the DotA 1 info page, although I haven't checked in some time.

                              Fourthly, the imperative for a concede feature exists because of a design flaw in the game, which is that it is possible for a team to put themselves in a position where they cannot realistically lose without making mistakes, but where the game does not end, and the relationship between the remaining length of the game and their lead are not related. This isn't necessarily griefer teams, it's most teams who are playing for a win with any mix of gankers and carries. You can clearly see the gold lead the carries hold, and can clearly see the map control the gankers have generated, and outside very special drafts, the other team can't do anything to regain the map control (to farm themselves, or to stop the other teams' carries from farming), and have no realistic way of winning a teamfight that would result from pushing.

                              There were games in The International that went for 60 minutes, but were over by 20. These situations are not exactly hugely uncommon. These situations are replicated all over the game, and it's not a bad thing because it's necessary for a bunch of the games' other mechanics to function. It is a bad thing when the mismatch is clearly there, and there is no out for a team.

                              Finally, don't bring up that defeatist shit. Please, don't. It's a pathetic argument if we're talking about restricting the CC function to high leveled accounts.


                              • +1 for reopening

                                edit:100% agree with above
                                Last edited by Pandamonium; 01-16-2012, 06:13 AM.