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Add a forfeit function

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  • Same thing still happens.
    People sit afk in base.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Typhox View Post
      Yes, I agree with you.

      However, it would still be not representative...
      You can only make it representative if you choose the participants of the poll yourself.



      You can find interesting numbers earlier in this thread (if that image didn't get deleted in the meantime)
      Scrolling 84 pages? Man, just no.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by horoz View Post
        Same thing still happens.
        People sit afk in base.
        and thats why we need concede
        has there been any official statement on this thread by valve? would be interesting what their point on this debate is, because if they
        a-wont implement it anyway because they dont like it:its pointless to have this 80 pages long fight
        b-if they implement it anyway: its pointless to discuss, too
        c-if they consider it and will maybe test it: then this thread makes sense

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Pandamonium View Post
          and thats why we need concede
          has there been any official statement on this thread by valve? would be interesting what their point on this debate is, because if they
          a-wont implement it anyway because they dont like it:its pointless to have this 80 pages long fight
          One of the biggest challenges of improving Dota’s experience is that of trying to ensure that players don’t prematurely leave games, robbing team mates of a chance to have that comeback experience, and the enemy team of learning that they may have a fantastic early game strategy that falls apart in the late game. If a significant number of games end prematurely for any reason, we believe it’s fundamentally unfulfilling for everyone.
          There are many reasons why players leave or go AFK. Aside from the obvious ones, there are many rare cases: they may get an important phone call, they may be having configuration issues with their computer, their team mates might be saying horrible things to them, they may get up to open the door for the pizza guy and accidentally lock themselves out (yes, someone at Valve actually did this). Some of these reasons are fundamentally undetectable to the game.

          http://blog.dota2.com/2011/10/steeled-and-tempered/

          (posted this already around 50 pages before ^_~)

          Comment


          • forfeit is for defeatist losers no thanks.

            just having the option makes ppl have a bad mentality (take a look at hon or league of legends)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Typhox View Post
              One of the biggest challenges of improving Dota’s experience is that of trying to ensure that players don’t prematurely leave games, robbing team mates of a chance to have that comeback experience, and the enemy team of learning that they may have a fantastic early game strategy that falls apart in the late game. If a significant number of games end prematurely for any reason, we believe it’s fundamentally unfulfilling for everyone.
              There are many reasons why players leave or go AFK. Aside from the obvious ones, there are many rare cases: they may get an important phone call, they may be having configuration issues with their computer, their team mates might be saying horrible things to them, they may get up to open the door for the pizza guy and accidentally lock themselves out (yes, someone at Valve actually did this). Some of these reasons are fundamentally undetectable to the game.

              http://blog.dota2.com/2011/10/steeled-and-tempered/

              (posted this already around 50 pages before ^_~)

              ty for the info, but to me, this sounds like they want to rethink the way they handle afkers/leavers ( a system that is bad atm(in my opinion)), not really that they are strongly against forfeit.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Pandamonium View Post
                ty for the info, but to me, this sounds like they want to rethink the way they handle afkers/leavers ( a system that is bad atm(in my opinion)), not really that they are strongly against forfeit.
                Yes, never said that. But from the statement "If a significant number of games end prematurely for any reason, we believe it’s fundamentally unfulfilling for everyone." you can see that they don't like that the game ends too early - what it would do with concede.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Typhox View Post
                  Yes, never said that. But from the statement "If a significant number of games end prematurely for any reason, we believe it’s fundamentally unfulfilling for everyone." you can see that they don't like that the game ends too early - what it would do with concede.
                  hmm seems your right on that, well i guess we'll have to see if their opinion will sway towards or against forfeit with more and more players coming into the beta and demanding this feature

                  Comment


                  • If there will be a casual queue matchmaking then add a concede option.

                    For ranked queue matchmaking do not have a concede option.

                    Simple and sweet.

                    Comment


                    • I think Chair's analysis really nailed the issues involved in implementing a FF function. If I could just add my two cents...

                      In WC3 Dota, I used to estimate how well a team is doing by comparing cumulative hero levels, and roughly speaking, when one team is 10 lvls ahead of the other, its a serious advantage; when it hits 15 levels (on avg +3 per hero) it becomes a roflstomp. In conjunction with other data like the gold graph, this will probably show how much of a chance a team has in coming back into the game. May I suggest that FF only becomes available when all the following conditions are satisfied:

                      1. Game time is more than 20 min
                      2. Cumulative team levels is more than x (unknown)
                      3. Total gold difference is more than y (unknown)

                      When heroes are outleveled and outfarmed, thats when you see the game becoming hopeless (3v1 ganks failing, etc etc). Valve should also keep values of x and y secret, so its a psychological trick for the losing team: they don't feel they like have to hit a 'target' to FF, instead, they just try their best cos hey, some algorithm in the game still thinks they can make a comeback right? If they continue losing till they reach the point where its nearly impossible to comeback, all players are notified that 'Forfeit allowed for Radiant/Dire'. When FF is finally enabled, it should be with a sense of 'Yeah, we tried but this isn't getting anywhere'.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by spiffamoo View Post
                        I think Chair's analysis really nailed the issues involved in implementing a FF function. If I could just add my two cents...

                        In WC3 Dota, I used to estimate how well a team is doing by comparing cumulative hero levels, and roughly speaking, when one team is 10 lvls ahead of the other, its a serious advantage; when it hits 15 levels (on avg +3 per hero) it becomes a roflstomp. In conjunction with other data like the gold graph, this will probably show how much of a chance a team has in coming back into the game. May I suggest that FF only becomes available when all the following conditions are satisfied:

                        1. Game time is more than 20 min
                        2. Cumulative team levels is more than x (unknown)
                        3. Total gold difference is more than y (unknown)

                        When heroes are outleveled and outfarmed, thats when you see the game becoming hopeless (3v1 ganks failing, etc etc). Valve should also keep values of x and y secret, so its a psychological trick for the losing team: they don't feel they like have to hit a 'target' to FF, instead, they just try their best cos hey, some algorithm in the game still thinks they can make a comeback right? If they continue losing till they reach the point where its nearly impossible to comeback, all players are notified that 'Forfeit allowed for Radiant/Dire'. When FF is finally enabled, it should be with a sense of 'Yeah, we tried but this isn't getting anywhere'.
                        Yeah I think that would be the best way to do it.

                        Comment


                        • I agree, this game needs a forfeit option. I have no problem with certain conditions needed to be met to initiate such an option, as quoted above for example. The chances of a comeback in Dota are far less then that of LoL for example (loss of gold on death for example). Losing a game in Dota in a painful, aggravating experience. Being forced to sit and lose a game of Dota for 25-40+ mins is mindnumbing and poor game design. Being allowed to surrender after certain conditions are met addresses this issue (to a degree).

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Fausterion View Post
                            I agree, this game needs a forfeit option. I have no problem with certain conditions needed to be met to initiate such an option, as quoted above for example. The chances of a comeback in Dota are far less then that of LoL for example (loss of gold on death for example). Losing a game in Dota in a painful, aggravating experience. Being forced to sit and lose a game of Dota for 25-40+ mins is mindnumbing and poor game design. Being allowed to surrender after certain conditions are met addresses this issue (to a degree).
                            Well, in the first place, that function would increase the number of reports and banned players quite a lot, because many people would rage about not being able to forfeit because of their st***d teammates still defending...
                            The first problem you should address when discussing for concede is the majority voting system.
                            There are only two possiblities as it seems: Quit or not to quit.
                            However, there would be a statistic that in >80% of all cases there would be the same decision so you're making the majority rage in most cases.

                            Example: Need to forfeit: 4/5 people.
                            So if 2 people decide to still defend, you have the majority not getting what they want.

                            Example: Need to forfeit: 2/5 people.
                            So if 2 players want to give up you make the other 3 players (majority) very unhappy.

                            Obviously 3/5 seems to be the only rate that'd work.
                            Last edited by Typhox; 01-18-2012, 08:03 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Fausterion View Post
                              I agree, this game needs a forfeit option. I have no problem with certain conditions needed to be met to initiate such an option, as quoted above for example. The chances of a comeback in Dota are far less then that of LoL for example (loss of gold on death for example). Losing a game in Dota in a painful, aggravating experience. Being forced to sit and lose a game of Dota for 25-40+ mins is mindnumbing and poor game design. Being allowed to surrender after certain conditions are met addresses this issue (to a degree).
                              that's actually a common misconception. there are way more comebacks in dota/hon than LoL since certain heroes are stronger at different stages of the game... in LoL every hero is a homogenized clone so there are no differing strengths as heroes progress with levels

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by MasterfulWizard View Post
                                that's actually a common misconception. there are way more comebacks in dota/hon than LoL since certain heroes are stronger at different stages of the game... in LoL every hero is a homogenized clone so there are no differing strengths as heroes progress with levels
                                Disagreed. The loss of gold on death makes a massive difference in regards to chances of a comeback. To say that all the characters in LoL are homogenized clones only shows how little experience you have with LoL (compare Shaco to Tryndamere). I've played hundreds of games of LoL and Dota. The chances of a comeback are startlingly different between the games, with dota being a worse comeback game.

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