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Add a forfeit function

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  • In so many games i've seen teams who have just been killed so many times they are begging for the leading team to finish them off so they can join a game where theres a more entertaining intense match.

    People who i've played with saying things like this ''End it please'' ''Push faster'' ''You won''

    People want the option to surrender when a game is broken by someone leaving in their team or 1++ are feeding the opposite team.

    It is torture for the losing team to have the entire team right outside their fountain with a pudge hooking them or/and a sniper hitting them. Miserable pain of dying over and over again to overwhelming opponents with greedy smiles.

    From my experiences, you cannot turn the tide if the opposite team have owned for 25 (with 20++ kills difference) minutes and that's where i think you should get the option to surrender the game.

    Comment


    • One of the other things that has struck me is that a lot of the DotA traditionalists who are writing about these "epic comebacks" have probably never played properly balanced matchmade games. I remember "epic comebacks" of the sort they're talking about, yes, they are different from the "epic comebacks" in HoN TMM, because winning after you've given the game away (ie. the point where the concede function is intended to be used) is only possible if the other team "gives it back to you" by being terrible bads and throwing.

      I remember these games in DotA 1, playing on USW or BA pubs, throwing the early game and then just deciding not to do stupid shit anymore and winning. You know what? These comebacks don't happen once you play against decent players. I think you're viewing what any decent player would see as a comedy of unforgivable errors through rose tinted glasses that make it look like a heroic effort on your part. The game is designed from the ground up to create situations where one team can create a mechanical advantage that the other team can't surpass - that's what carries are for - they more efficiently turn your map control, and thus farm, into huge numbers that can't be adequately countered.

      As I've said several times in this thread - I don't care whether low tier matches get concede or not, because I don't think they have the requisite knowledge base to make an informed decision about the game's winnability, so patently, any model I propose for a concede function shouldn't affect your apparently miraculous, but actually incredibly twee and parochial comebacks even if you were forced to vote them up when they were proposed.

      The more I analyse this issue, the more I see a concede function as a necessary thing for the game to have by virtue of its design. Not including it is sadistic, and encourages the notion that the outcome of the match has to do with something other than winning - perhaps punishing people for their mistakes by making them live with them at the other teams' leisure - I don't know...

      Comment


      • first of all , Please no concede button.

        Dota isn't a game for conceding , i played a game two days ago , we Made 1 Push after they've got 2 sides super , we Finished the game , this is DotA , a balanced game and it's not for Rage-Quiters and FF-ers , if you really wana concede and ff and afk base , go play HoN , i think you gona find players of your type there , leave dota alone please.

        good luck.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by V13 View Post
          One of the other things that has struck me is that a lot of the DotA traditionalists who are writing about these "epic comebacks" have probably never played properly balanced matchmade games. I remember "epic comebacks" of the sort they're talking about, yes, they are different from the "epic comebacks" in HoN TMM, because winning after you've given the game away (ie. the point where the concede function is intended to be used) is only possible if the other team "gives it back to you" by being terrible bads and throwing.

          I remember these games in DotA 1, playing on USW or BA pubs, throwing the early game and then just deciding not to do stupid shit anymore and winning. You know what? These comebacks don't happen once you play against decent players. I think you're viewing what any decent player would see as a comedy of unforgivable errors through rose tinted glasses that make it look like a heroic effort on your part. The game is designed from the ground up to create situations where one team can create a mechanical advantage that the other team can't surpass - that's what carries are for - they more efficiently turn your map control, and thus farm, into huge numbers that can't be adequately countered.

          As I've said several times in this thread - I don't care whether low tier matches get concede or not, because I don't think they have the requisite knowledge base to make an informed decision about the game's winnability, so patently, any model I propose for a concede function shouldn't affect your apparently miraculous, but actually incredibly twee and parochial comebacks even if you were forced to vote them up when they were proposed.

          The more I analyse this issue, the more I see a concede function as a necessary thing for the game to have by virtue of its design. Not including it is sadistic, and encourages the notion that the outcome of the match has to do with something other than winning - perhaps punishing people for their mistakes by making them live with them at the other teams' leisure - I don't know...
          quoted for truth

          Comment


          • Ok so a summary of the thread (for and against).

            For concede:
            - Prevents fountain farming.
            - Saves time
            - Lets you play more games
            - Most people want it

            Against concede:
            - I MADE AN PUSH ONCE AN WON AND THEREFORE NO CONCEDE!!11

            Comment


            • Being able to cc is not the solution, punishing noobs HARD for failing, even if only 1 game, is the solution

              Comment


              • Punishing noobs is never a solution.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by AmQQ View Post
                  first of all , Please no concede button.

                  Dota isn't a game for conceding , i played a game two days ago , we Made 1 Push after they've got 2 sides super , we Finished the game , this is DotA , a balanced game and it's not for Rage-Quiters and FF-ers , if you really wana concede and ff and afk base , go play HoN , i think you gona find players of your type there , leave dota alone please.

                  good luck.
                  More ridiculous crap. Teams win from 2 rax down in HoN against other mediocre teams all the time. Having a concede feature wouldn't have stopped you from doing that. I won a game the other day that I ran 0 16 18 as Furion and my team was belted to a wall the whole game - but I never even considered it unwinnable or worthy of conceding, because I'm not an idiot, and I knew that I could out push them until the cows came home. Guess what - no HoN team would have conceded it either because we had them critically outdrafted, and our strategy was a lot better than theirs' - it just also happened to involve a hardcore gank disadvantage early-mid and midgame, but with superior pushing, stalling and carry mechanisms that they couldn't counter. Conversely, I had a game the other day in HoN where at one point I was 21 2 15 on Nomad, but ended up being outcarried by a Flint who finished 6 15 15 - the teams were remarkably similarly drafted (Magebane, Slither, Elec, Flint, nebulous support vs Nomad, Glac, Ra, Midas, FA), and we went 2 rax up at one point - but amazingly they didn't concede, because having a concede function doesn't stop you from having a comeback, and as soon as you drag yourself out of scrub tiers and start playing >1750 games, teams view the concede feature as a way of ending a game that's already over, not saving themselves Smackdowns and frustration. Having a concede function doesn't force anyone to end the game early if they can win it, and having the concede function doesn't instill any kind of defeatist frenchy, white flag, mentality.

                  Arguing that DotA 2 should "Be like DotA 1 and not have a concede feature" only proves that you are accustomed to scrub tier matches and have never played IH or league matches, since this feature was replicated in every serious medium to high level DotA community. This entire thread is consistantly derailed by people spouting pure assertion founded on very poor premises with no analysis of different concede function models, and who generally have no experience with how the function actually works. I've also noticed a definite inverse relationship between English skills and wanting a concede function, and while not really wanting to go there, this is replicated in HoN where the stubborn Pinoy/BR has traditionally been the one tdowning the concede while the other team's Devourer hooks you out of the fountain while waiting for the Megas to take out the Shrine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1WeaG5et_U) - maybe it's a cultural thing. IDK.

                  inb4 more anecdotes consisting of "I won a game that we were at a substantial disadvantage in and if you want a CC function gb2hon because HoN is for rage quitters."
                  Last edited by V13; 01-19-2012, 05:28 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by V13 View Post
                    More ridiculous crap. Teams win from 2 rax down in HoN against other mediocre teams all the time. Having a concede feature wouldn't have stopped you from doing that. I won a game the other day that I ran 0 16 18 as Furion and my team was belted to a wall the whole game - but I never even considered it unwinnable or worthy of conceding, because I'm not an idiot, and I knew that I could out push them until the cows came home. Guess what - no HoN team would have conceded it either because we had them critically outdrafted, and our strategy was a lot better than theirs' - it just also happened to involve a hardcore gank disadvantage early-mid and midgame, but with superior pushing, stalling and carry mechanisms that they couldn't counter. Conversely, I had a game the other day in HoN where at one point I was 21 2 15 on Nomad, but ended up being outcarried by a Flint who finished 6 15 15 - the teams were remarkably similarly drafted (Magebane, Slither, Elec, Flint, nebulous support vs Nomad, Glac, Ra, Midas, FA), and we went 2 rax up at one point - but amazingly they didn't concede, because having a concede function doesn't stop you from having a comeback, and as soon as you drag yourself out of scrub tiers and start playing >1750 games, teams view the concede feature as a way of ending a game that's already over, not saving themselves Smackdowns and frustration. Having a concede function doesn't force anyone to end the game early if they can win it, and having the concede function doesn't instill any kind of defeatist frenchy, white flag, mentality.

                    Arguing that DotA 2 should "Be like DotA 1 and not have a concede feature" only proves that you are accustomed to scrub tier matches and have never played IH or league matches, since this feature was replicated in every serious medium to high level DotA community. This entire thread is consistantly derailed by people spouting pure assertion founded on very poor premises with no analysis of different concede function models, and who generally have no experience with how the function actually works. I've also noticed a definite inverse relationship between English skills and wanting a concede function, and while not really wanting to go there, this is replicated in HoN where the stubborn Pinoy/BR has traditionally been the one tdowning the concede while the other team's Devourer hooks you out of the fountain while waiting for the Megas to take out the Shrine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1WeaG5et_U) - maybe it's a cultural thing. IDK.

                    inb4 more anecdotes consisting of "I won a game that we were at a substantial disadvantage in and if you want a CC function gb2hon because HoN is for rage quitters."
                    walls walls walls walls walls , won't read it all ofc from the first two lines
                    i see your are satisfied with HoN , Go play it then , and let us play DotA the way we want?

                    Comment


                    • Inafter "... if you want a cc function gb2hon because HoN is for rage quitters."

                      Thank you for making my prediction correct after less than half an hour.

                      Comment


                      • I had this discussion with a couple of friends last night I'll just simply reiterate what I said to them: Concede at 25 requires 5 votes and concede at 40 requires 4.

                        It's simple really at 25 minutes those 5 people have given up, they no longer want to play. They do no care about your huge comebacks or big plays. They simply want to leave they are no longer enjoying themselves and would wish to find another game or get on with some real life issues. It's not really a boon for the opposition it's clear whatever they have done, they have done so well that the other team simply no longer wishes to play. I understand it's Icefrog and Valves vision to create Dota 2 how they see fit but at the end of the day these people are still playing your game and wish to stop as they are no longer enjoying it. Why do you prevent them from having that option? Forcing people to play longer just makes them more angry/salty/bitter towards the opposition and encourages in fighting. We've all seen it or heard in on our voice coms of choice. No one likes having a loss stomped down your throat.

                        Meh, maybe this all falls on deaf ears but I simply cannot fathom why such an option isn't implemented yet. If you do no wish to use it the solution is clear. You simply don't use it and continue playing.

                        Comment


                        • Nothing new, same old "discussion" and insults and nobody bothers to read the thread cause everything that has been said was already mentioned on the first 20 pages. I'll leave the thread open for a little longer but expect me to close it sooner than later again.

                          Comment


                          • I agree oddly enough, thanks for reopening it though.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by AmQQ View Post
                              walls walls walls walls walls , won't read it all ofc from the first two lines
                              i see your are satisfied with HoN , Go play it then , and let us play DotA the way we want?
                              AmQQ: Gets called out for his baseless arguments, refuses to read it, then tells these people to leave DotA and stop suggesting potential improvements.

                              You do realize that the entire reason for the dev forums is to provide feedback on how to improve the game, right?

                              On topic, one reason I enjoyed playing TDA games in DotA1 was precisely because you had the option to forfeit by getting your entire team to type 'ff' in all chat. I'm surprised more people didn't have a positive experience there.
                              Change has kept DotA alive, evolving, and improving since 2002. And now DotA has an entire new engine at it's disposal, with infinite new capabilities.

                              So why are there so many DotA fundamentalists/conservatives that oppose new features, options, and information?

                              Embrace the change.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by alienufo View Post
                                one of the reasons I never got into HoN after playing the beta was because people would concede after 20 minutes when their team is down by 5 kills. It was freaking ridiculous.
                                Although I really enjoyed HoN for years, the concede was the worst freaking thing. People would give up sooo early, bunch of quitter internet babies. I just had a game tonight in Dota 2 it was not going good we changed our lanes, went to a tri lane bottom and turned the game around. That stuff will never happen if a concede feature is implemented.

                                I can't tell you how many times someone would die once or twice real early and then spam, CC at 15....

                                There were countless times where a guy would literally run around the base or the pool for 30 minutes waiting for the 4/5
                                concede vote instead of PLAYING the game.

                                That boggles my mind, you would rather do absolutely nothing for 30 minutes then play a fun computer game.

                                I would tell my team I never concede ever, so just play and lets make a comeback....
                                Originally posted by Shibubu
                                Sure, it looks a bit silly, but this helmet makes more sense than ~50% of Furions cosmetics that are already in the game. And its not like he's wielding a wooden penis (one can easily make a penis shaped staff out of wooden branch and there are no arguments why it could not be done). The Acorn helmet is actually VERY fitting since it's natural shape is used. Also it is used for it's quality to withstand blows.
                                Wow, amazing insight.

                                Comment

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