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[Suggestion] more control / options / preferences in Matchmaking

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  • [Suggestion] more control / options / preferences in Matchmaking

    Since the original thread was closed because of understandable reasons i decided to reopen a similar one with the quintessence of it.

    The matchmaking system offers little to no control over what you want to play with and what not. Apparently, many times you know in advance that you will have no fun playing a certain match.
    There should be more controll to avoid game ruiners and trolls or i prefer to punish these 2 kind of players with strict actions!
    There should also be more controll at how far the MM is expanding it's searchrange to guarantee more equal matches if you wish so, or faster games if you prefer this. Maybe even a ping limit or something like this since it's a measureable handicap.

    The language preferences should be more meaningful aswell.

    Also was an idea to show the teammates before accepting to the game, the OP of the original post want to use this to avoid certain kind of players, but maybe it's a possibility to dodge known game ruiner.
    To edit this idea you might get into a lobby with your teammates beforehand so you can speak about picks/tactics if you want before the pick screen appears but i guess this option is redundant.

    And a personal thing i want to mention is that i am a big fan of the idea of choosing your postion (mid,carry support...etc.) before searching to avoid being pushed into a roll you don't want to play and also to make the MM generate more synergetic teams, since everybody got his favorite role where he almost plays better than in the others. And it would encourgae more people to play solo and also encourage more people to play/train more needed roles in order to find games faster, maybe with this the "mid or feed" and "instant carry picker" will be extinguished in the future.

    So please feel free to discuss
    Last edited by FelicesBladewing; 11-18-2013, 06:16 PM.
    Originally posted by DarkLite
    Valve has abandoned the game! The game is now safe to leave.
    No statistics will be recorded.
    powered by Bashtime

    my view of the current MM: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...907#post769907
    and of RMM: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post879900
    and of solo-q vs party-q: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post929986

  • #2
    +1,000,000

    Comment


    • #3
      Your post made me think a thought. Perhaps a wonderful thought. What if in addition to the regular matchmaker, there were also a team finder system. So this doesn't find a game, but just matches you with a group totaling 5 people. you can then discuss positions, tactics, etc, and then enter the queue as a group of 5. Have fun? good! you can play together again. Someone leaves? fine! use the team finding system to replace that person with a new one. Someone's an ass? leave the group and find a new one, maybe adding the people you enjoyed playing with as friends first so you can queue together again without the asshole.

      This team finder can have all SORTS of criteria, like positions/roles you like to play, languages you speak, etc. And of course it will take into account your hidden MMR rating so you will only be matched up with players of similar skill.

      Comment


      • #4
        That team finder idea is something I considered before, when trying to figure out what people -really- want when they ask for public MMR, since "finding people to play with as a team" is a commonly-cited reason to add visible MMR. I think its a much better idea than something like solo queuing in a given position, since that function would be much more prone to abuse

        Comment


        • #5
          Controllable search range and meaningful language choice, wish to not play with certain people and role based game mode.

          You say this like anything is wrong with players playing together with their skills all over the place, speaking whatever language they like even if nobody else does and had maybe no wish to play with each other and probably less in the future and often they have their eye on the same role and rest might end up grumpy and may pick it anyway.
          Last edited by nadaga; 11-19-2013, 01:29 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Callipygius View Post
            Your post made me think a thought. Perhaps a wonderful thought. What if in addition to the regular matchmaker, there were also a team finder system. So this doesn't find a game, but just matches you with a group totaling 5 people. you can then discuss positions, tactics, etc, and then enter the queue as a group of 5. Have fun? good! you can play together again. Someone leaves? fine! use the team finding system to replace that person with a new one. Someone's an ass? leave the group and find a new one, maybe adding the people you enjoyed playing with as friends first so you can queue together again without the asshole.

            This team finder can have all SORTS of criteria, like positions/roles you like to play, languages you speak, etc. And of course it will take into account your hidden MMR rating so you will only be matched up with players of similar skill.
            That's a great idea, but not a matchmaker, just a simple team finder then you do whatever you want, you would least likely have positions set and make sure people speak the language you want.

            You should make this as a suggestion.


            They probably need to tweak their system which defines how stronger is a group compared to 5 strangers, this group could be 5 strangers once they play more the stronger their "group bonus" becomes.

            Potential problem is that people misuse it, they take too slow, they are picky, few uses it.

            Also that abysmal lets put mutes in regular games system wouldn't be popular in team finder either when people are checking for language competence.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Callipygius View Post
              This team finder can have all SORTS of criteria, like positions/roles you like to play, languages you speak, etc. And of course it will take into account your hidden MMR rating so you will only be matched up with players of similar skill.
              Originally posted by func_door View Post
              That team finder idea is something I considered before, when trying to figure out what people -really- want when they ask for public MMR, since "finding people to play with as a team" is a commonly-cited reason to add visible MMR. I think its a much better idea than something like solo queuing in a given position, since that function would be much more prone to abuse
              yes a team-finder would be great because it would also make finding guys for 2,3 or 4man prestacks to fill the roaster and maybe even lead into more 5-man teams which can actually get together for TMM.

              TMM needs an improvement but i think it's the right thing for comp. minded teams/stacks.

              great ideas guys, keep it this way^^
              Originally posted by DarkLite
              Valve has abandoned the game! The game is now safe to leave.
              No statistics will be recorded.
              powered by Bashtime

              my view of the current MM: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...907#post769907
              and of RMM: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post879900
              and of solo-q vs party-q: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post929986

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by nadaga View Post
                You should make this as a suggestion.
                this thread is linked already into the suggestion list
                Originally posted by DarkLite
                Valve has abandoned the game! The game is now safe to leave.
                No statistics will be recorded.
                powered by Bashtime

                my view of the current MM: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...907#post769907
                and of RMM: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post879900
                and of solo-q vs party-q: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post929986

                Comment


                • #9
                  MM system now as bullshit, more update = more bullshit. Really, new update of MM system is really sucks, all times bg

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Axiieflex View Post
                    MM system now as bullshit
                    implying that the mm was not shit before, LOL!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What needs to happen regarding language option:
                      1. There needs to be an "other/no preference" option for if you don't speak any of those languages.
                      2. Multiple languages should NOT be selectable.
                      3. There needs to be a semi-automated option to report people who abuse the language setting WITHOUT counting towards your report cap.

                      #1 would solve the issue of not every language having an option.
                      #2 would partially solve the issue of people intentionally queuing for the wrong language.
                      #3 would make it so there's actually repercussions to abusing the language setting.
                      Steam Profile
                      Python Interface to the Stats API
                      Suggestion: Courier Shift-Queue Improvements
                      Make Disablehelp work on Decrepify
                      Useful link for mute system supporters

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by FelicesBladewing View Post
                        Since the original thread was closed because of understandable reasons i decided to reopen a similar one with the quintessence of it.
                        The matchmaking system offers little to no control over what you want to play with and what not. Apparently, many times you know in advance that you will have no fun playing a certain match.
                        There should be more control to avoid game ruiners and trolls or i prefer to punish these 2 kind of players with strict actions!
                        There should also be more control at how far the MM is expanding it's search range to guarantee more equal matches if you wish so, or faster games if you prefer this. Maybe even a ping limit or something like this since it's a measureable handicap.
                        The language preferences should be more meaningful as well.
                        Also was an idea to show the teammates before accepting to the game, the OP of the original post want to use this to avoid certain kind of players, but maybe it's a possibility to dodge known game ruiner.
                        To edit this idea you might get into a lobby with your teammates beforehand so you can speak about picks/tactics if you want before the pick screen appears but i guess this option is redundant.
                        And a personal thing i want to mention is that i am a big fan of the idea of choosing your position (mid,carry support...etc.) before searching to avoid being pushed into a roll you don't want to play and also to make the MM generate more synergistic teams, since everybody got his favorite role where he almost plays better than in the others. And it would encourage more people to play solo and also encourage more people to play/train more needed roles in order to find games faster, maybe with this the "mid or feed" and "instant carry picker" will be extinguished in the future.
                        So please feel free to discuss
                        The problem with showing the player's names before accepting to join the game will result in a constant 30 minutes avoiding(declining) matchmaking. => higher time waiting for each player
                        Also... if you see my name for example: Vlad -> you will decline thinking that I'm Russian... which I'm not...And also.. I saw Russians using English names just to be impossible to avoid them

                        Ping limit - Yes pls. Also would like to type -ping in guild chat or any other chat rooms to check my ping before joining any games.
                        Language preferences - Would love to see this working... but it won't... so they can just remove this from game... it's a lie.

                        "To edit this idea you might get into a lobby with your teammates beforehand so you can speak about picks/tactics if you want before the pick screen appears but i guess this option is redundant." => Go play Captains mode joining as a 5 man party...

                        "And a personal thing i want to mention is that i am a big fan of the idea of choosing your position (mid,carry support...etc.) before searching to avoid being pushed into a roll you don't want to play and also to make the MM generate more synergistic teams, since everybody got his favorite role where he almost plays better than in the others. And it would encourage more people to play solo and also encourage more people to play/train more needed roles in order to find games faster, maybe with this the "mid or feed" and "instant carry picker" will be extinguished in the future."
                        This also will increase the que time from the 1-4 minutes(which is now) to 5-30 minutes. Tested in World of Warcraft que for a Random dungeon (using random dungeon finder) on a 4000 players realm. Healers and tanks were the fewest => in Dota 2 Supports will be a rare thing. And also you can't control their positions. People will select all positions just to que faster. And... if you can't select all positions then many will select supports and pick mid/offlane/carry.
                        This is how Dota2 games should look like! Game 1_Game 2_Game 3_Game 4_Game 5_Game 6

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Original OP here of the thread, this OP refers to

                          @OP of this Thread: you forgot to add insults towards Eastern Europeans in a way they deserved it for abusing the system. I could add them if you want.

                          I would like to recall the experience i had in the beta of Heroes of Newerth in that case. During this time, Matchmaking was non-existent and as conclusion nobody bitched about their teammates. It was a traditional Lobby-driven Groupfinding where the name of the lobby showed, what mode will be played and what rating everyone in this game had to have in order to not being kicked out of the Lobby. Additionally, you could check each players stats before the match started, sorting out players who have troll accounts or feed or what not. If you did not find a match Lobby of your kind you were free to open your own Lobby with your own preferences. You know what? Those days were AWESOME in all terms possible. This System (if you can call it a system) was a significant factor of elevating HoN from a unnoted Indie Game to a name in the genre. In its core, it was the same as the old BattleNet for Dota but with the improvement to SORT OUT players you do not wish to have in the game according to your own preferences. It was not a perfect system, but what system is perfect. You had to carefully watch the stats of your account, you could not risk having feeder stats in your accound because that automatically concludes in permanent kicks out of Lobbys.
                          Matchmaking completely destroyed the fun of...well...Matchmaking. No Control, constant rise of feeder, constant rise of shit talk, constant rise of smurfs and what not. Another example of how matchmaking destroys a game: World of Warcraft. Socializing with other players (on your server), Control over the group you want to run a dungeon with...Everything gone with matchmaking. And what happened afterwards? To maintain this flawed system, the dungeons where constantly nerfed to a level of brainless farmfucks with no communication what so ever because that is the only way you could stay to the matchmaking system.

                          That is the point Valve, give the players more control over GroupFinding and dont make the excuse of "There is a Lobby System". As long as there is Matchmaking, the majority will mindlessly use matchmaking for their own bad. Since you cant remove the Matchmaking option now once you included it, improve it to get to the point i explained or maybe a zone which lies within this gap. Offering the Player Control over what he wants to play with is always the smarter choice. Otherwise you imply or even strictly call out that the majority of your playerbase is shit.

                          Oh yeah, the language option IS something that can be improved in this direction but in its current state it is worthless since all those drunken russian subhumans can check the English Button in the english option and completely ignore the fact, that they are dumb fucktards with an english language knowledge equal to the one of a brick.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ^OP
                            Which server did you play World of Warcraft on? ) Haven't seen a server that nerfs every dungeon...
                            I played WoW for years on over 250 servers... have experienced some nerfs to some bosses because the classes had spells bugged... so it was a balancing...
                            I don't see why you state that Matchmaking system on World of Warcraft has something to do with the PVE...In arenas you can check what your MMR is and TMM, also it very much based on skill and gear.
                            In Dota 2 you have the same "gear"(same gold per minute, farm opportunities) and skill is the thing that splits the noobs from the pros.

                            Referring to the Russians...which we can see that you have a total hatred for them...Swearing won't help.
                            I think that, as some of them posted on this forum, they need more Dota 2 servers in Russia that won't lag so much.
                            But it's hard for an American company like Valve to pay some computers in Russia...
                            This is how Dota2 games should look like! Game 1_Game 2_Game 3_Game 4_Game 5_Game 6

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by vladn View Post
                              ^OP
                              Which server did you play World of Warcraft on? ) Haven't seen a server that nerfs every dungeon...
                              I played WoW for years on over 250 servers... have experienced some nerfs to some bosses because the classes had spells bugged... so it was a balancing...
                              I don't see why you state that Matchmaking system on World of Warcraft has something to do with the PVE...In arenas you can check what your MMR is and TMM, also it very much based on skill and gear.
                              let me clear up some things. Im not playing on snowflake private WoW servers, which took more than 5 years to barely emulate vanilla servers. And with Matchmaking in WoW i mean the Dungeon Finder. The Dungeon Finder was introduced halfway through WOTLK, so you can say at a time, nobody gave a damn about progressing through 5-man Dungeons as in Classic or BC. Nobody cared who was worth a damn, everybody had his fun, end of story. The 5-Mans in the beginning of WOTLK were easy but not too easy. What came afterwards? The Dungeon Finder established itself as part of the game itself and at this time nobody thought about the destroying consequences it will have on the game since everybody took this feature as a joke or for twinks or whatever, nothing seriously. THEN Cata hit. Cata had on its release amazing 5-man heroic dungeons. They were almost on par with the BC 5man heroics in terms of difficulty and commitment. But then there is the Problem with the scrubs (i will call them this way. They are the equivalent to Crystal Maiden no ward no cour but quelling blade bottle). They grew unnoticable accustomed to the DungeonFinder Tool and made themselves huge in number. They got their spots in the DungeonFinder Tool in early Wotlk and conclude, that they earn their spot also for those Cata 5HC dungeons ALTHOUGH their inability to play properly. They were still people around, that grouped up without using the DungeonFinder (like the LobbySystem) but the crying number of the scrubs went to the ears of Blizzard. To get together the Scrubs brewed by the DungeonFinder and their needs to succesfully run a dungeon, 4.1 happened and the rest is history.

                              The analogy here is, DungeonFinder or in general Matchmaking dumbs down the player in nearly all aspects especially the social aspect. They think that being able to click a button (which is already a great accomplishment by a worthless russian) should be enough skill requirement to enter whatever they want. Since you cant nerf Dota2 like you can nerf Dungeons in WoW, the general problem is being ignored by valve and they yet have to come to a solution.

                              i could continue pointing out what this actually means in detail in the progressing of the player if you want.

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