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General Ranked Matchmaking Feedback Thread[READ OP]

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  • I feel that the ranked MM is very random. When the MM rank doesn't affect your skill correctly, games will not be matched correctly and the result will not adjust correctly as well. As a result, the MM rank never gets to the correct point it should be but just goes around randomly. Someone may say that if you're better than the rest, your team should win and your rank should be increased, but it's a very flawed point. Because

    1. Dota is a team game. Just 1 person with higher skill than the others in the team not always be able to help the team win. Sometimes, in a "pretty noob" team, playing in a noob style would more likely result a win than playing in a pro style, like going tri lane, expecting supports to REALLY support you, expecting teammates to co-operate when you need it. For example, sometimes u go gank properly, and it would have been a successful gank IF your noob teammates look at the mini map, understand your intention and go help instead of keep farming RIGHT NEXT to the combat, and the result is a good intention of ganking turns out to a failed gank. So in many situations, being the only pro in a noob team cannot help the winning chance increase, but even worse

    2. If you bring the team to victory, ALL your team members' rank is increased by an approximately same amount. Even u r good or bad, as long as your team win, your rank is increased by about 24~28 most of the time, and as I experienced, this amount is not even reflect how well you performed in that game. Even if it does reflect, 1~2 point difference does not mean much. Even in the long run, it cannot be compared to the +/- from the win/loss.

    3. I don't know how they determine how well a player perform in 1 game, but I feel it's not very effective. If they look at the GPM or K/D/A, it's pretty wrong because a good carry may have a bad GPM and K/D/A just because supports didn't do their job properly, or the whole team picked all carry despite the first ones already picked carry, and vice versa. Even if they compare those GPM and K/D/A with the average level of everyone playing that hero, it's still not correct. For example, in some games, I already picked Sven or Alch, but the team still pick too many carries and I have only 2 choices: playing carry like normal and lose the game, or sacrify, switching to a supportive style to help the team win and get a lower-than-average GPM and K/D/A. Many heroes can be played in various styles, and if they compare the GPM and K/D/A to the average, it only benefit the selfish ones who play "farming style" supports and leave the real carries die from time to time.

    One more thing, I've read about how a match is considered "good enough" here According to that, the measurement is based on "the time integral of the gold difference, measured since the last point in the game where the difference was zero". I think it's pretty wrong. Let's look at these 2 example gold graphs:
    As you all can see, these 2 games aren't actually too different, but with the measurement mentioned above, it's very different. I think the point where the gold difference equals to zero doesn't mean much, and base on it is a wrong decision.


    • I can live with it because there is an option for unranked but I rather dislike this change. It can leave players feeling inadeqaute and makes there game experience degrade by playing with people who are attach there in game skill to their ego's


      • Likes
        It tells you exactly how good you are
        Having a ladder gives you a reason to climb higher and play more.

        Sometimes people in stacks have a high skill difference or sometimes stacks tend to rage and blame the solo guy.
        Give back solo queqe.
        Just a side suggestion: Give us a mode where we could pick heros turn by turn just like in captions mode. This will allow players to discuss their combos early game. Basically i am asking for captions mode without pick/ban/ caption. Players will take turn picking but from the all pick pool.


        • Dislike:
          Thanks to leavers I have 6 losing streaks! Lost 400 mmr! And soon they( players at my mmr) will cry that the game is 1 sided...
          This is how Dota2 games should look like! Game 1_Game 2_Game 3_Game 4_Game 5_Game 6


          • -Dislikes:
            One of your teammates starts raging and goes feeding, im seeing this way to often @5000 rating. There should be a special report button for ppl who are going mad. It completly ruines your round, and then you still loose the same amount of points thanks to them.


            • LIKES
              - Those "calibrating" matches were actually pretty good...
              - After those years you finally started something that should be good...

              - ...and u stopped with 10% rmm done and released it as full product. Please go ask e.g. ixmike how it should be done.
              (he's the last one i know of who created some sort of ranked system (for d2) in last few "days" - Or mby we should all go there in the first place, it's a win win situation, right? Who needs players with demands if you really only need hat shoppers).

              - Since mine calibrating finished, it's same s**t as normal mm. 99% of all games you get ppl who doesn't know what support should be doing, who flame like hell or even who can't tell a single word in english. You'll get full parties vs random groups or groups with single players. No ladder. No region block. No proper point awards - You can carry the whole game, farmin 50 minutes in jungle, or be unmatchable player and u'll always net the same amount: +-25..27 - and it doesnt matter if you play good carry, good support with everything that support should be doing or a lame a** noob who is stealing the farm from your carry, refuses to comply to the team and only thing he sayz is "fuck you noob" (in any language). So what's the point of playing rmm right now?... Better games, rly? Don't get me started...

              - Absolutely no "ranked" stuff that should be here that exists (or existed) on other game clients while there was only wc3 dota.

              - While playing ranked:
              1) you should NOT BE ABLE to hide your ranking or any other profile numbers while playing rmm (others can check your profile while they're in game with you) - if you're afraid of a number, then you'll never be a good dota player, you'll be scared to do what must be done. Separated RMM statistics would be good too - statistics like what heroes you play, how you manage with them, kda, point benefits (how many points you got while playing mirana, bb, etc). Also better endgame stat screen - old wc3 dota has a LOT more statistics and even that's not everything - you have no engine limits like wc3 does... you should just check the screen and learn from it.

              2) "muted" players should not be allowed to play rmm while their mute is in effect - this game is a lot about communication and allowing muted player in "ranked" tier is beyond retarded. But mute penalties should be separated from normal and ranked (you can get mute in normal pretty eazy just by trying to get noobs in line, trying to teach them some stuff), so you can play rmm if you got muted in nmm. Also the "mute" system should be revorked, the "first" ban should only forbid speaking and typing, while pinging on map and drawing (2 sec draw limit for 5 sec, so you dont get to see dicks etc) get's banned after that (if the banned player get another one for another bad behaivor, abusing map signals/drawing), allowing him only to use "chat circle". I understand it could be much more forgiving to flamers, but i could e also more forgiving to those punished unjustly. Besides, mute won't change the player, he'll just flame again after the mute...

              3) any reported (and convicted) leaver / flamer / feeder on purpose from rmm should be punished a lot more - and because of that it should not be judged just by one game (even though if there're like 7 reports from one game to a single player, it should matter more then just 1 or 2 reports). I realize you can get net/power/system overheat issues (i myself have net issues sometimes), but if rmm should work, then every leaver should be punished (it's not lifetime ban... you can solve it... and if you can't, you'll just have to take that risk or don't play rmm at all)... also you should be able to redeem yourself somewhere - some web page with "banned" ppl, where you could actually search your id (or login thru steam there, if you're afraid of "anybody can look up anyone) and there you would find reason for your temp ban with a space to redeem yourself with explanation

              4) while searching for a game, there should be a "region block" OPTION, so you can choose if you want to play with someone 1k miles away from you or not (i'm not saying "not playing with russian", i had 3 good ones in my FL from... well ~250 confirmed i've played with). Again, this game is about communication and can easilly end up in game with 4 guys speaking in language you don't understant, just because the mm system thinks it's better for you to wait 2 minutes rather then 7 mins (and enjoying the game). So the region block is MANDATORY to ANY KIND of ranking system (which doesn't support privately created games)... as well as ->

              5) -> Ladder. What's the point of having ranked matchmaking if there's no ladder of some sort. Again, if you're afraid of a number, don't play it... There were a lot of ranked game clients in a past and everybody who was playing there was doing it because they wanted to. They weren't afraid of their stuff (though they were pissed if someone screwed the game for whole team, but you'll never get rid of that), they wanted to know where they stand, how good they are compared to other players and how they improove (or not ). Btw, this is strange thought, but isn't that the whole point?

              6) the "filter" reset while looking for game longer then x minutes - why in the hell you want to use this in ranked? I don't really have a slightest idea about your thought process, but somebody who wants to play ranked is prepared to wait even 10 minutes for a game that's totally worth it (it's way better then waiting 20 seconds for game that you wouldn't even use as a toilet paper). And trust me, if it's a really great game, you don't really mind that much loosing (you do, but somebody has to loose) then loosing a game you know it's worthless since first 2 ingame minutes. I'm not really sure how filter reset works right now (how much you have to wait till it kiks in), so take this as an example. I think you got my point.

              Hope you'll at least read it.
              Because I don't really hope for big improovement (for me this is just shoutbox for us players who think we can change anything).

              Well at least I did that...


              Forgot about one thing

              7) Game modes in rmm. So we have 3 modes active in rmm, retarded -ap and then 2 captain modes, where you have to count on some "fast clicker" will pick while using his brain. Rly good choise... I understand why there's no -ar or -sd (too much random for rmm, i even think -ar should not bee in rmm, EVER!), so i understand you about these modes... but why in the hell not -rd? It's the same as captains draft without some random capt picking for you... It's actually the best mode you can play (on nmm, obviously!) while avoiding the majority of no-brainers.
              I don't really get this...

              EDIT 2:
              Well, you know what?
              After seeing HOW you fix stuff, it's safe to say this: Quit it... Close down the "ranked" mm, for you it's broken beyond repair.
              Last edited by ExecutorQ3; 02-15-2014, 05:46 AM. Reason: adding one more thing to fix, another typoo fixing (damn)
              General Ranked Matchmaking Feedback Thread - Share your experience.
              Which modes should be available in ranked matchmaking? - Let's try to make something important happen.

              Phase 1: Collect Underpants
              Phase 2: ?
              Phase 3: Profit


              • Likes:
                1. A ranking is given

                1. So what if ranking is given? Rankings of others / including your team mates are hidden unless you are friends with them.
                2. You will never know how balanced your game is because every1 ranking is hidden. Suggestion: MMR of all is shown.
                3. mmr ranking system is based 99% on Win Lose ratio. Meaning 1 or more low skilled player in the team who feeds constantly can given your team a serious disadvantage. Resulting in a match lost and thus reduction in ranking. Suggestion: Kill Death ratio should play a heavier role in determining mmr.
                4. Quitters need to be punished more severly. Suggestion: Reduction in ranking of at least 100, with ban of 24hrs of any online dota 2 match (not even low priority) for abandoning 1 game.
                Last edited by lasnoblur; 01-11-2014, 08:31 AM. Reason: sugestion to each dislike given.


                • Likes
                  1. I can compare myself to my friends matchmaking
                  2. I have a marker for my own performance, so I know how well i've been doing recently. Since win % means nothing in unranked matches, this actually tells me if I won a challenging game against harder players by giving me a higher +score for that game.

                  1. You can random in AP. I think removing the random option from ranked AP should be implemented because randoming implies you don't care about your pick, and therefore don't care about winning. Randoming in AP modes should be removed, and no extra gold given.
                  2. I have little clue as to where I fall on the spectrum of dota MMR. I want to see the distribution of dota player MMR's and where I am on it, and what percentile I fall in can be in parentheses next to my MMR.
                  3. In relation to my dislike #2: I would like there to be a page where I can view only ranked matches and a graph of my percentile over the last 1 week/1 month/6 months. Alternatively, I would like if there was a filter option on my "View All Games" page.
                  4. Private profiles should not be allowed to block anyone from viewing your MMR. Additionally, the list of all players in dota 2 ranked MM should be listed on community page, starting with the top players of dota 2.


                  • Solo queue POV

                    games are slightly better than unranked (hero/lane choices are better)
                    it happens more often than expected to play with people with more or less same skill (which also brings a dislike)

                    Specially in even matches 1 bad lane/pick choice can ruin the game and turn into a 30min feedfest
                    Win chances are often lowered due to fighting egos (about lane choice, suport responsibility, etc.)
                    No all-solo queue

                    Seasons, in which stats are reseted (every 3/6/9/12 months or w/e)
                    Remove random option in ranked ap
                    For every pick pass the pick time, you get penalized with less starting gold (counter pickers shall feel some pressure)


                    • Dislikes
                      When it comes to -AP, I honestly see no difference in skill level/effort to win with non-ranked. Many times actually I see the opposite and it really boggles my mind. Excluding the fact that at the 4700-5000 range, where I've played all my games, in 99% of them my team had 0-1 supports, (most of the time that solo sup was me since I mostly random), I see way too many players just flat out ruining the game either via raging or via trolling. And by ruining I mean turning a 50%-100% chance to win into 0%. And this is really bad and infuriating, especially in ranked games.

                      I would like to see more options when reporting players. I would also like to see more severe penalties for players that purposefully make their team lose a game they had a fair chance of winning.

                      Regarding randoming in AP games in response to some previous posts, I see nothing wrong with it. Ranked does not equal competitive. I random most of my games since I can play almost all heroes. I also repick whenever my hero doesn't fit the team's composition or swap. I would much rather have someone on my team who randoms than someone who first picks antimage or spectre or some shit like that, which instantly tells me that I'll have to bust my ass to win the game since he's almost always a bad player, and certainly always not a great player. Actually, out of all the game modes in dota, AP is in my opinion the worst one when it comes to ranked games and it should be removed.


                      • Likes:
                        when the system shows my rank I enjoy a lot cuz i will compare myself with the others who have higher ranks than me.

                        -The balance between teams:

                        I dont know but I feel the balance between players is not working good if there is any balance system
                        For example a few minutes ago I went to play a RM but my team mates were so enough awesome that no1 could feed like them in the world! I know the feed or noob team mates are stereotypes words but Im not that guy who thinks he's pro and others are feeders, no of course Im not But I've attached a screen shot below for you (staffs) and others who reads this comment to show that the balance system really sucks because I got 4 noob team mates after 12 normal games which I got 9 wins from them and all of them were really nice games even the games that I lost.



                        • LIKES
                          Most games feel pretty balanced

                          Players from different regions produce terrible quality games

                          1. Bring back solo queue. (Because why not?)

                          2. Add optional region lock. (Because why not?)

                          3. Add player controlled MMR range filter (I wouldn't mind waiting 10 - 20 minutes to have ~250MMR difference between the best/worst players)

                          4. Create an algorithm that looks at your items and grades your choices on a skill range. The more your item build looks like a pro build ( in any given situation - taking in account your opponents picks, your team picks and your opponents items ) the more points you get for it. It can be used to calculate skill rating.

                            Elo is a flawed metric because it needs to be zero-sum. It will continue sucking until you guys ditch it for a non-zero sum system.

                            It would let people get points even when they lost but played good. It's the ultimate holy grail of matchmaking and could make this game 3 times as fun

                            While it may be true that you can get 500-600 rating quickly, it doesn't mean the system is good. It might have been good to win those 20-25 games in a row but the matchmaking algorithm ruined the fun to all of your opponents in those games. It failed to recognize a high skilled player is owning. So basically, because of this one player, 20-25 games turned to shit.

                            20 x 9 people x 30 minutes per game = 90 hours of poor games caused by matchmaking flaw - and it's just for ONE miscalibrated player


                          • - i haven't got an equal game in mmr for last 10 games except for 1. (and this is no exception)
                            - your "mmr" is broken, i get matched with people that are complete tards it makes my head spin or opposite with such a good players my skill doesn't even come close to.
                            - in solo matchmaking i face parties of 2 people? what shithead came with this idea? so its solo mmr or team mm then?

                            btw i'd add some table in the end where u could tick (Yes or No option) for each player of your team how they performed asking 4 simple questions (instead of "did u enjoy the game question in the end, because 90 percent of the time i can give it just 1 star at most).
                            - did he play his role
                            - did he pick correctly
                            - did he behave friendly
                            - did he performe well

                            and i'd stick those that play their role according to player rating with those that also play their role and those that rage with those that rage etc...
                            and summary results of this voting should be visible for all the players like commendations (i believe everybody would rather have "plays his role" positive than negative and would change is playstyle accordingly) - now u have no penalties no visible rating, nothing. everybody is anonymous like hell, i have no idea who i play with or against. i'd prefer to have other player nicknames and steam profiles concealed rather than their stats.
                            Last edited by Beauchamp; 01-13-2014, 12:34 PM.


                            • Dislikes

                              - you can't really improve your MMR - Wins = Loss ~ 25. And the system is designed to win 50%
                              - MMR doesn't consider split pushing. If Im split pushing, taking 2 rax while the opponents are 5maning.. and I have poor KDA... where does that rating go?
                              - some heroes dont have high APM, or the game doesnt require none, if ur split pushing .. what APm do u need (i figured its part of the equation)


                              - Introduce a MBTI profiling for players
                              - Intruduce Matchmaking by players who want to play specific roles (offlane, mid, trilane, woods, support, roam etc)
                              - Improve the Equations for MMR so you can win points by losing a game. Its unfair to play flawlesly and lose points. Dota is not about wining and MMR doesn't suggest this.


                              • DISLIKES: The fact that there is no solo queue.

                                Yeah, I know in the long run the lack of solo queue "balances" itself out since every solo player has to suffer his way through it. But it still means party players have inflated MMRs, and more importantly, losing to a stack as a bunch of solo queue players simply isn't fun. When I see the enemy team is actively porting in to countergank every time and they are warding and dewarding etc, its got nothing to do with skill and everything to do with the fact that they're 5 friends sitting together in a skype call. I'm sure the solo players I end up with also go into this really coordinated mode when they play with their friends. But its simply annoying to lose just because the enemy team happens to be composed of friends who're willing to cooperate with each other.

                                I don't know why dota can't have solo queue. HoN has a much smaller player base and they've got solo queue (or did when I played). IMO every solo queue player in dota2 should automatically be shunted into the solo player pool, there shouldn't even be an option to opt out of this. 4+1 should be discarded, and 3+2 and 5 man parties can be put in a pool together.