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General Ranked Matchmaking Feedback Thread[READ OP]

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  • Originally posted by Stig- View Post
    1. The games feel like they are either a) Impossible to win or b)Impossible to lose.
    – To clarify, it feels like the games are either fixed for me to win or fixed for me to lose. Neither is enjoyable. This is NOT a complaint about losing. Some of my most enjoyable games I have lost but some seem so one sided that I'm either playing people far below my level with players on my team either at my level or above making it far too easy to win or I'm playing against players either of my level or above with players on my side far below everyone elses level, making it so one sided I can't have a proper game.
    1+
    This is very true.Games are ez lose or ez win.

    Comment


    • DISLIKES
      -Using average MMR for match making.
      This only makes the skill gap more sensible in games.Bring back the old system where every single player in a team has a MMR close to each other with minimized gap.
      -mixing party queue with solo queue.
      Please only mix party of 3 or 2 players with each other in a team.With this, only party MMR of each individual will be considered not his/her solo MMR.
      For exp : a party of 2 and party of 3 VS same for the other team,instead of party of 2 and 3 solo players VS the other team.
      Last edited by VVitcher; 11-10-2015, 09:32 AM.

      Comment


      • Why is TBD in ranked match making?

        Why is TBD in ranked matchmaking, have had 3 in the last 10 games (was 2 in the last 5, but 3 in the last 10) seems like a new trend, or more people are getting into the ranked world? All 3 games we lost due to noob mistakes and throws by the TBD people. So why can they just join and fail, in ranked? Basically an anchor for our team. Does not motivate me to want to play in ranked matchmaker lately. I don't want to be their coach,,,,,,

        Comment


        • Why the matching of Ranked Match is not like this?

          Many players are questioning about the MMR of ranked players. Some said they are good but some said they are bad or nothing. Well, even Dendi himself claimed that MMR is absolute nothing for Dota 2 because it doesn't represent much for the professionalism of a player.

          The Radiant/Dire
          Players: P1 or 6 P2 or 7 P3 or 8 P4 or 9 P5 or 10
          MMR Range: 0 ~ 1999 2000 ~ 3999 4000 ~ 5999 6000 ~ 6999 7000 ~ 8999
          People will ask, if there is no player of 7000 ~ 8999 MMR joining the Ranked Matchmaking, then the matching will be very long and can never be completed. No, it can go by time of matching. If the first queuing in the system reaches a certain time of matching, the empty slot can be filled with player(s) lower MMR bracket. Example, if 7000 ~ 8999 for first queue does not has player, then player of 6000 ~ 6999 from second queue will be moved to first queue.
          I am not sure how this matchmaking works but to be honest or simply to say, many players can abuse the current matchmaking by using similar setting and Find Match at same time.

          I am wondering what will happen if the matchmaking is going this way in the system,

          First queue,
          RADIANT P1 - 920 P2 - 2342 P3 - 4678 P4 - 6331 P5 - not found
          DIRE P6 - 950 P7 - 2142 P8 - 4378 P9 - 6531 P10 - 7103
          The P5 in first queue is not found. So, searching to refill the slot from second queue will start. If P5 has no player, then pull similar bracket. If similar bracket has no player also, then pull lower bracket which is P4 in second queue. If P4 in second queue has no player, then pull lower bracket which is P3 and so on. If all brackets has no player, then searching to refill the slot from third queue will start, which means players who already set up by the system into the queue must follow the bracket. They cannot decide themselves to form a party of 3 with 3k+ MMR and another party of 3k+ MMR. Then, go for matchmaking at the same time with similar settings.

          Second queue,
          RADIANT P1 - 899 P2 - 1552 P3 - 4789 P4 - 6233 P5 - finding
          DIRE P6 - 950 P7 - 2122 P8 - finding P9 - 6511 P10 - 7002
          This forum is very interesting for us to share and talk about our ideas or thoughts or opinions that come out from our minds. I am glad to hear from you. I don't need argument. Thanks.
          [ SEA & Western English are different ~ please understand ]
          [ If I accidentally insulted or post harmful content, please do notify me or remove it ]
          -

          Comment


          • Matchmaking - getting totally unfair matchups

            I'm sure similar threads already exist, kindly merge this post into one if that is indeed the case, I just want this issue addressed, as it's totally frustrating and taking away my will to play Dota2. And it makes me sad cause I truly would enjoy the game.

            Basically I keep constantly matched up with players in a completely different experience level than myself. I don't think it's fun at all, not for me, not for the other player either. If I wanna teach a new person to play Dota, I join a guild for the purpose, I've done that, been there. But if I just wish to play casual Dota and enjoy some games, I do not need players with minimal experience to ruin that wish for me. It's really annoying. Really.

            Below a collage of images of some latest matchups, and my profile for comparison.

            http://i.imgur.com/iuEG0GQ.jpg Match ID 1944743787
            http://i.imgur.com/UYFa15l.jpg Match ID 1944683976
            http://imgur.com/RRPpeHo

            I'm not claiming that the bad experience is solely these players fault, but games like this where some party members are so new to the game happen all the time, above are just a few examples. I understand that if a player with high level of experience is in a same party as the low level one, it's possible to be matched up with them, but I still think something needs to be done, if at all possible.

            I don't play ranked matchmaking, just solo queuing EU west/US east for All pick, Single draft and All random. I do also play with a friend half the experience to me, but those games are not the issue here. It's the solo queue and being matched up totally unfairly.

            Please do something about this.

            Kind regards,

            armiel

            ETA
            ty for the merge, but I think this was merged to a wrong thread, as I was speaking of NON-ranked matchmaking (mentioned in the post)
            Last edited by armiel; 11-19-2015, 06:17 AM. Reason: clarity

            Comment


            • Likes: The fact that you finally made unfair bots harder to beat than hard bots.

              Dislikes: The Matchmaker (especially since reborn).

              Basically I'd like to share a story about my experience with the matchmaker.

              I created my new account some months ago. Very quickly got wrekt my first 10-20 games. I was like "this game sucks... oh wait... maybe I suck..."

              So I went off and did a whole bunch of work. I read guides. I practised every single hero against bots. I learned to control my temper better and not throw games or abandon early. I watched replays of good players. Learned about lane equilibrium and when to fight vs when not to fight.
              I probably put in more than 500 hours to this end of just training and learning (not including actual games).
              The result: I started winning... I SLOWLY worked my way up to a 60% winrate... then I lost some games and went down to about 54% winrate.. then I worked my way up to a 58% winrate... all normal fluctuations that one expects from a randomly matching game with 10 players.
              Then suddenly... it all went to shit.

              I started losing... A LOT. Out of the next 53 games or so, I lost 38. That's a winrate of 28%.

              (Now, this happened at about the 150 game mark and ALSO at about the time Reborn came out... so I have no idea whether it's reborn screwing up the matchmaker, or me randomly being assigned 1000 points to my hidden MMR and suddenly being jumped way up cos I won too much. It's worth pointing out I also got my first "High Skill" game on dotabuff at this point, I played support Silencer and we lost).

              At first I thought, "oh they've jumped my MMR so that's why". But the problem was if that was true I should often be the weakest player on my team. Not so... a lot of the time I was the strongest on my team (and I was almost never the weakest) but we got completely wrecked cos the enemy was just a class above us.

              You asked me to give suggestions for how to improve. I don't really know, cos I've never built a matchmaker. I can only tell you the two biggest mistakes that I think cost games at my level.

              1st: Early deaths. Too many people don't understand that if they are feeding their lane they need to just sit back and soak XP rather than just continually throwing themselves at a viper / omni dual-lane. (Surely people who regularly die 3-4 times in the first 7 minutes can be tagged as feeders and grouped together).

              2nd: People picking support then not supporting. If I knew they weren't gonna support I would have picked Witch Doctor and at least ensured my team had courier and wards... but I saw them pick CM and dazzle so I went carry. (People who choose hard support classes should have a message flashed on their screen at the start of the game saying "You have picked a support hero, it's your job to buy wards and courier for your team"). These people always compete for last hits in lane too, instead of denying and harrassing enemy away from the carry in their lane.

              It's late and I'm tired so I might add more later. Long story short, I'll most likely be quitting DOTA2. It's just not fun to lose 72% of games while teammates feed and then flame me for not TPing in to help when they were roaming through enemy jungle.


              TL; DR Games 0-150: 58% winrate thanks to LOTS of homework. Games 151-200 28% winrate.

              Comment


              • LIKES
                - Ranked is great

                DISLIKES
                - In Australia the queue times are rather lengthy for party ranked games, even during the evening peak. This means that we often queue for normal matchmaking when we would prefer ranked just because ranked would take too long. I'm sure there would be other people doing this in Australia which just makes the queue time for ranked games even longer. This is a problem for South Africa also as evidenced in this reddit post which also garnered some support for the potential solution: Let us queue for ranked and unranked games at the same time.

                Comment


                • LIKES
                  - Short queue times
                  DISLIKES
                  - for some reason queueing a match after the last one ended leads you to be with extremely toxic players in your team. You wait 20 minutes instead and the experience is much different. Check your the matchmaking algorithm please
                  - Grieving punishment is not harsh enough. Players barely get a slap in the wrist. There must be a way to prevent greifers from coming back to ranked. I suggest adding ranked cooldown after finishing lpq games
                  - Courier feeding should instantly be abandon and kick the player from the game thus preventing him from feeding further. Track number of couriers deployed and if it exceeds a number that die send the players to lpq and add ranked cooldown.
                  - Solo queueing should only match up solo players. This will certainly add more time for queueing in parties but I am certain most players would prefer it this way

                  Comment


                  • Many DOTA2 players have long stopped enjoying the game. Toxic player behavior that ruins games and goes unpunished most of the time, and a reporting system that lacks the ability to actually segregate players is a thorn on the shoe of this game, and it is understandable that many other things have changed with a brand new engine which keeps developers' hands full, but it is time to take some measures as the community keeps growing.
                    Suggestion
                    - Implement an over watch system for excessive reports. The replay system is already in place. An algorithm to create anonymous game replays (no links to player name or steam profile) for games with high reports would be required.
                    for those unfamiliar with this, it's a concept that was beta in CSGO until not very long ago, highly reported players would have their matches analyzed anonymously (no names showed up on either team) by another player with more in game time and better ranking in the game. No chat or voice chat was shown in this process which takes about 5-10 minutes. The main purpose of it is to pinpoint hacking on players with excessive reports but griefing behaviour was also examined. At the end a from appeared asking if the player was indeed "guilty" of each parameter (speedhacking, wallhakcking, greifing, etc) with tick boxes on each [ ] not enough proof [ ] non conclusive; or [ ] beyond doubt for each parameter
                    - Add a ranked cooldown as punishment. Players that are found griefing will automatically have a cooldown to play ranked MM.
                    - Add incentives to get people to use overwatch (perhaps custom trophies, gems, or XP based gain)
                    - Add immediate abandon and lpq punishment for courier feeding. Feeding the enemy isn't very easy to track against what skill the player has, it could be a new player literally just learning how the game works. As something that is fairly easy to track, feeding couriers is already a sign that a player has stopped trying to help his team win. This should be treated as an abandon and punished as such. Going back to the CSGO example, players are warned not to do damage to their teammates and are immediately kicked of the game and sent to cooldown upon exceeding damage. The number of couriers deployed by a player can be tracked and upon exceeding a reasonable number (6 let's say) the player is immediately kicked and treated as a game abandon. Griefers will find a way to grief but in the meantime griefing shouldn't go unpunished

                    Comment


                    • RETURN DODGE SYSTEM

                      DISLIKES
                      - I dislike that you can't dodge muted persons on the stage of awaiting players in Dota 2 Reborn.
                      because the same guy can ruin your game infinite amount of times
                      Examples: 000000000000000000000000000.png , 000000000000000000000000001.png
                      The NINJA guy goes furion-jungle-dagon and afk on the base after getting killed 6 times. Next game he picks Pudge and makes about 0 effort to win the game without landing hooks and etc.
                      "Why don't I like it"? CUZ I"M LOSING MMR AND MY PRECIOUS NERVE CELLS
                      SUGGESTION
                      Add a possibility to look who is muted while waiting for other players (like it was in dota 2). That would be enough.
                      Thanks!

                      Comment


                      • Dislikes

                        Seriously, we need a blacklist system, I just get in a game with 3 muted persons, that I alreadly reported and muted games before due to lack of teamplay/feeding/etc. I tried to go reason with them but the language barrier here in SA servers make it very hard to talk with them, I can't talk spanish and they can't talk portuguese nor english, I try drawing, using the chatwheel, but it is no use, the teamplay is impossible.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by armiel View Post
                          Basically I keep constantly matched up with players in a completely different experience level than myself. I don't think it's fun at all, not for me, not for the other player either. If I wanna teach a new person to play Dota, I join a guild for the purpose, I've done that, been there. But if I just wish to play casual Dota and enjoy some games, I do not need players with minimal experience to ruin that wish for me. It's really annoying. Really.

                          Below a collage of images of some latest matchups, and my profile for comparison.

                          http://i.imgur.com/iuEG0GQ.jpg Match ID 1944743787
                          http://i.imgur.com/UYFa15l.jpg Match ID 1944683976
                          http://imgur.com/RRPpeHo

                          I'm not claiming that the bad experience is solely these players fault, but games like this where some party members are so new to the game happen all the time, above are just a few examples. I understand that if a player with high level of experience is in a same party as the low level one, it's possible to be matched up with them, but I still think something needs to be done, if at all possible.

                          I don't play ranked matchmaking, just solo queuing EU west/US east for All pick, Single draft and All random. I do also play with a friend half the experience to me, but those games are not the issue here. It's the solo queue and being matched up totally unfairly.

                          Please do something about this.
                          Bump!!!
                          BUMP
                          bump

                          Same happened to me in numerous games! To name a few:
                          Match id: 1966954765
                          2 players with 726 and 415 hours of dota while I have 4700
                          match id: 1975325131
                          1 player with 198 hours of dota
                          and so on...
                          They were not pros on their smurf accounts so don't give me that: "amount of time played is not an indicator of skill".

                          I dislike the fact that i dont have to wait for a long time to be matched with players that will ruin the game and waste 40 minutes of everyone's time... (insert sarcastic smile)
                          I would gladly wait 10 minutes to be able to play with people that are same skill lvl.

                          I dislike the fact that I get matched on the team with players that I muted previous game!! I muted them because they were abusive, or ruining the game on purpose! If they were on my team last game, I'm sure matchmaking can put them on the opposite team this time since they are obviously "equally" skilled!!

                          I dislike that 90% of the time, you can feel very quickly that game is destined to be won or lost, more or less, no matter how you play. I think this is what you call "balanced" matchmaking that keeps you on 50% win rate... It is a terrible solution.

                          I dislike random option in ranked.

                          Comment


                          • DISLIKES
                            - Random button in ranked.
                            Replace blind ban with random button in Ranked for all players

                            Comment


                            • Likes
                              -it is more serious and skill focused
                              Dislikes
                              -MMR points only for a win
                              when you win or lose a game you get +25 or - 25mmr points no matter how you have played. It is not good because you can tryhard do evrything good have stats similar to people in oposite team but you lose because of pick or noob teammate or whatever and you get full -25 it is just not ok. Or the other thing.. you get good teammates you win because of them but not cuz you played very good and you get full + 25 ...
                              solution for me is to compare same roles in opposite teams. For example if both mids have played well, have simmilar networth, K/D/A, and so on. Then both those players did good and forfilled their role in the match so they both get +25. But because 1 of them is in the losing team he gets - 10 so finally he gets +15mmr points. But if you dont do well compared to the other team, if you feed, if you have no gangs you get punished by more and more -mmr points. It just cant be only win/loss based.

                              -People with different Language prefference end up in same teams
                              it is just not right for a Ranked match to have someone that speak other language. For example i choose english and end up with someone that has english and russian... and he speaks only russian ....
                              solution for this is just to make it impossible people with language barrier to join same team. JUST DO IT.

                              -I can get matched with people that i have already muted/reported/ignored
                              i have muted or reported that person for a reason. There is enough players in dota 2. Doesnt matter if the queue for the game will be 30 sec longer it matter not to have same noobs over and over again...

                              -Punishments for MMR games must be stronger. MMR games must be for serious people only. There is normal games if you want just to play casually.
                              MMR games are for people that want to play serious, competative games. If someone is trolling, feeding, abusing bugs, spaming chat, non cooprative, they have no place in MMR game. LP isnt enough.
                              my suggestions are MMR rating drop of 500. If same thing happens again 1mounth ban from MMR games.

                              -having longer pause for discconected players
                              Last edited by hiopl; 12-07-2015, 05:59 PM.

                              Comment


                              • the system is shit as ever ,having in 3200 mmr against 2000 mmr game id 1986827831 check TUSK,and when the game began the highest mmr showed was 2800 !!! even my 8 yo kid knows more math than devs

                                and for those of you who want to have good games do like this

                                after 1-2 games lost close dota and leave it for 5-8 min,because the system will reset and you will have some good games ,otherwise the game will treat you like a super pro and give you only low skill players ,does not matter if you lose or win ,if you did well in a game the system will give you low skill players.this is intended because they don't want you to leave the game,so when the system detect that you left it will reset itself


                                LIKE I SAID SHIT AS EVER.you can call this mode whatever you want, but is not ranked or competitive,have fun when you see a team mate that does 2 18 and start to swear everyone,priceless

                                Comment

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