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[Suggestion] Season System

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  • [Suggestion] Season System

    Hey guys, i've been giving this a thought and would like to share it with everyone.

    I think a 1~3 month season system could do wonders for this game. Straight to the point, here is a starting concept i've been thinking off, along with some light changes to the matchmaking:

    Matchmaking

    Not much would change here but giving players a fresh start after some time, and something to remember.

    At the end of the season your best heroes could be displayed in a showcase or memorium kind of window. Along with your win / losses and a couple more statistics (your best score, your best hero, item breakdown, you name it!). People wouldn't get their heads too hot about how much they have won or lost as it would get reset. He might still have a lot more losses than wins in his career, but after three seasons i'm sure he could see his improvement.

    PS. I believe the possible party size here must be 1,2,3 or 5 in order to have healthy games. It is a small downside considering how much better it can become, but this is just IMO.

    Team Matchmaking

    I can't stress enough how important that is. DOTA is a team game, putting "random" people to play against each other may be the faster and most appropriate way to provide people with the FUN they are looking for. But it is very hard to single out who is good and who is bad as so much is out of your control, of course you can be the best player of most matches, but dota is much more than playing as a one man team.

    Team players and solo players are rated the same by the system in place, yet they are in a whole different league. The team player is playing the game of dota, he knows or look to learn strategies for them to execute as a team, every person usually already has a goal set by the leader of that team, they KNOW what they are doing and what they must do, they have a gameplan.

    The other group has a go with the flow style. Of course there are a lot of good players in those pubs, but they aren't playing a game of dota. They are playing a whole different game where you have to bound yourself to selfish rules in order to suceed (if you are a tryhard). There is obviously much less organization.

    What happens when you put those two groups of players to play together? The team players will ABSOLUTELY CRUSH THE PUBS LIKE ANTS more often than not. And this is what has been happening in the current system. Those players have the same ratings, but they aren't in the same league at all.

    With that in mind i have a proposal.

    Each season, you could join a team consisting of 6 or 7 persons (team of 5 and 2 reserves), you can make only ONE substitution while the season is running, in which case the uncertainty factor for your team will have to be made bigger. You would join a ranked clan matchmaking in which teams would battle it out and at the end of the season there could possibly be a tournament with the best 5% teams. If things get big enough there could be different leagues, kind of a starcraft II style. It would give a much better way to evaluate the TEAM skill, which is what truly matters in this game. And of course, games would be played in captains mode.

    (TL/DR):. It is basically a place that you can go if you feel like you want to be rated as a TEAM with your friends, not as a person of the team. I don't intend for this category of matchmaking to prevent you to play with your friends in the existant matchmaking.

    Possible Flaws

    The algorithm needs time to evaluate a team's rating

    There IS the problem that all teams will have to play a lot of games before being properly put in their actual skill bracket, if this isn't handled properly it will ALL break down REAL FAST just because of the sheer numbers of clans awaiting to be rated. A lot of matches would be imbalanced because the system has no idea of the skill of the team, people will think the system is unfair and not use it. For this problem i have this solution.

    Let's say you give the teams the power to switch one person from their roster after a given period of time. All the matchmaking would have to do is make the uncertainty factor (which i'm sure there is one) be multiplied by 1.3, that way their rating can be kept, and in a short while the team will be on their bracket again, with "minimal" imbalanced games as a result. This could work really well if captains grow fond of their team name and reputation, as they will want it to live on as long as he can hold it. Show a cool window with the team's achievements, day of foundation, and roster history, and i'm sure this objective can be achieved. For the sake of better matchmaking.

    How to prevent stagnant ratings

    There is the possibility of teams avoiding each other in order to retain their place at the top spots. There are two solutions for this. Either there are points constantly entering the pool, which will make people have to play in order to stay at the top. Or you force them to play against each other in the form of season-end tournaments.

    Argument against In-game Tournaments / cash prizes

    How do a game sustains itself as a Esports? It needs viewers, and it needs sponsors. It is difficult, if not impossible, for sponsors to publish their products inside the game. There are ads that need to be run, there must be a way to sell HD transmission for those interested. This is hard to achieve using the built-in platform. And this is also why it will be hard to have realistical cash prizes for in-game tourneys and still be worthwhile for the top teams.

    What to do with the ratings at the end of the Season?

    There is something called K factor (i'm almost sure the algorithm uses it). People ranked higher and/or considered stable (doing what the matchmaking predicts they should be doing) in the matchmaking will lose less and win less points after each game than people ranked in the lower portion. For example, if the K = 10 for 2400+ until 2600 points make everyone in that window set to 2400. There will be a fresh start but the matchmaking will still have an idea of how your team will perform / against which teams it should be playing.


    PROS

    - Fresh start
    - More accurate ratings
    - Sense of progression
    - Healthy competitiveness
    - A simple division of 2 ways to find matches, which would not hurt queue times too much

    CONS

    - 1 substitution per season is restrictive?
    - Need for people to settle in teams, in order for the matchmaking to work properly and do its part
    - A bit of commitment as 5 out of 7 members of the team need to be online in order to play
    - ??? You tell me!

    I know this is a kind of brief concept, but one that could have a lot of things built onto it as the playerbase expands!

    What do you think about it? Would you form a team to play in this team matchmaking?
    Last edited by ValeN; 02-02-2012, 10:47 PM. Reason: i am ocasionally adding answers to relevant questions made by myself or by responses in the thread

  • #2
    i'm just gonna bump this, sue me!

    Comment


    • #3
      Season system like starcraft, lol and hon are great ideas!

      Solo players are rewarded with 1 game from steam from top 20 score list!

      Comment


      • #4
        +1, absolutely 100%

        It would make each month like a fresh start etc.

        It is brilliantly done in Sc2, why not bring it over ????
        Originally posted by Shibubu
        Sure, it looks a bit silly, but this helmet makes more sense than ~50% of Furions cosmetics that are already in the game. And its not like he's wielding a wooden penis (one can easily make a penis shaped staff out of wooden branch and there are no arguments why it could not be done). The Acorn helmet is actually VERY fitting since it's natural shape is used. Also it is used for it's quality to withstand blows.
        Wow, amazing insight.

        Comment


        • #5
          http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=16735

          I think this guy has about roughly the same idea.. really long read though

          Comment


          • #6
            The reason you have seasons is to combat rating inflation. SC2 has a system where rating is added every single day, so they have to reset or new people can never get to the top. If you instead base it on ELO mmr or something similar there will be inflation, yet it will not be big enough to need a reset.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sosseres View Post
              The reason you have seasons is to combat rating inflation. SC2 has a system where rating is added every single day, so they have to reset or new people can never get to the top. If you instead base it on ELO mmr or something similar there will be inflation, yet it will not be big enough to need a reset.
              While this is true, there is a need to insert extra points in the ratings because if you don't:

              It causes deflation over time
              Discourages higher rated players to play

              It could be the case of , upon reset, set the players MMR to that of the minimum score for the K factor that they are in. If K=10 for 2400+ set everyone above that to 2400 for the new season. They can do so because most players will not bitch about their rankings being brought down since it is hidden anyway.

              That is one more plus for the system!

              Comment


              • #8
                I like the season idea and the whole concept of a trophy room sounds like it has lots of potential, with which you could center focus on good play rather than wins (there is not necessarily a correlation).

                Not as sure about the Team Matchmaking aspect of it - do you mean I would have to play in the same party of friends for 3 months or were you just meaning a sort-of registered clan system?

                I, for one, welcome our new Russian overlords.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Seems like this idea has potential. Probably couldn't hurt... probably.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    LIKE !

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by k0i View Post
                      Not as sure about the Team Matchmaking aspect of it - do you mean I would have to play in the same party of friends for 3 months or were you just meaning a sort-of registered clan system?
                      Yes, you could see it like that, a clan matchmaking. There could be a actual ladder for it! And yea, the idea is for you nto to be able to participate in more than, at the very most, two clans in one season. I do believe that a maximum of ten players per clan (team A + B) would be a good number.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        t-up

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I like the idea of creating a party/team/clan system for matchmaking. the problem only is, that such a system has to directly compete with the main events of esport, prizemoneywise.

                          its also possible to abuse most matchmaking systems, after a certain time of study (look at bnet arranged teams). if you add prizemoney to teamgames, you will have to deal with abusers, since they will try to reach the top places by avoiding the top teams.
                          example:
                          which team is better: navi, who wins 90% out of 100 games with 1 lose each 10 games, vs the same teams, since their opponents are not many, or abuseforyou, who wins 91% out of 501 games, with 50 loses at the start and 451 wins vs easy opponents afterwards, who dont know their potentially abuse and well coordinated playstyle?

                          only tournaments with a low number of games being played, are secure of that kind of abuse.

                          another problem is, that you completly ignore the fact, that people dont always have 5-7 able dota-friends, who share the same activity rate.

                          many people just go online, look who might be online, and play with the 1-4 ppl, they can find. those teams are neither organized, have a very heterogen skill level and dont share many games together.

                          i also like to meet new people in matchmaking games and party up with them after a successful game.


                          your system doesnt provide a solution for those kinds of players. its only working for pure solo play. but if you think of it, solo players, cant be purely matched up with other solo players. the simple fact, that no 4-ppl team could EVER be matched if soloplayers were excluded is reason enough, that solo players have to be included in party matchmaking.
                          Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

                          Contributions i'd like to highlight:
                          My Suggestion: Coaching System
                          My Sticky: Intended Changes List
                          My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I suggested this idea too but more on the lines of cw matchmaking http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=20061

                            I always thought that we would have a PSR rating like hon, so to have a solo ranking I was expecting it to be a given, but yeah SC2 did a great job with rankings and I really think a similar system should be brought over (except for the way you move from tier-to-tier, that sh*t is just confusing)

                            +11111111111111111111


                            To the guy above me, I don't see how this can be abused?
                            If you use a point system rather than a percentage system you're fine. If there are teams that somehow managed to weed itself into the high ranks they're screwed when they have to verse a legit team.

                            I don't think prizemoney should ever be added to the matchmaking system lol, that's plain silly. Far as I know SC2 hasn't done that and their competitive level is still (for now) at a higher level than dota.

                            Why does the ranking have to involve money whatsoever? The rankings are good for just recognition.

                            Also goes with the "not enough people to form a clan", that's a really invalid argument. A clan should consist more than 5-7 people, if you don't have that amount of people then maybe don't consider making a clan?

                            The game is a teamwork based game, to have rankings that are for clans is really a no-brainer, this is how dota is meant to be played.
                            Last edited by Xemption; 02-02-2012, 08:17 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              @xemption and blash

                              Yes, prizemoney don't really work in a online in-game enviromennt. Unless the company archs with all costs, which seems is what LoL is doing.

                              The only way for it not to be abused is by constantly adding points into the pool, since clans WILL have to play each other. Even if they avoid it by playing in different regions or timeframes, there could be a way to force them playing against each other at the end of a season i think.

                              The reason why my system do not provide a solution for the solo players who like to queue up with new or old friends that aren't on the same skill level is simple. The way the current matchmaking handles ratings leads to very inflated or deflated ratings for a lot of players. It is on the core of the game, it is hard to deal with that. Like in soccer, things are very subjective. A outstanding player may underperform in a poor team and a poor player may overachieve in a more organized team, yet they aren't very good on the technical aspect they could have blended in better or have better sense of teamwork. It is impossible for a algorithm to cover those aspects.

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