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[SUGGESTION] Casual Mode Option

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  • [SUGGESTION] Casual Mode Option

    I have a confession to make: I ruin games.

    I don't do it on purpose. I feed because I'm not very good with Batrider, and got to where I am in the ranking because I usually play Venomancer and Nightstalker. I feed because it's my first time playing Shadow Fiend, and don't feel like reading a guide or playing a bot match. I feed because I'm tired after a long day of unemployment, maybe a little stoned, or taking bites of pizza in between the action. I don't queue with my newbie friend to help him inflate his MMR; I queue with him because we have more fun playing together.

    You brought your A-game, picked your best hero, and solo-queued to kick some ass. You only have fun when you win, while I get bored playing stomps. You're justifiably angry when I go 0-5 in 10 minutes. You're understandably pissed off when I decide to build a Dagon on Bounty Hunter. You're righteously rageful when my friend, on his 5th game, is caught out of position time and again. When you say "omg this krobelus 10 deaths feed more plz", that's excusable -- after all, I just wasted 40 minutes of your life.

    The thing is, my MMR is based (at least partially) on how well I do when I'm playing my best, choosing heroes I play well, etc. But I don't want to do that every game. I'm sick of staring at Bloodseeker's ass in the air, and I've already memorized all of Tidehunter's level-up lines. I want to try a new hero/build; I want to be able to queue when I'm tired; I want to play a game with a lower-skilled friend, and be matched up based on his level and not mine.

    Usually. Once in a while, when I'm well-caffinated, I feel like winning. I feel like pubstomping the shit out of the game. And while I never rage, I do feel that taste of biterness when I played my best game of Witch Doctor in my life, kept everything nicely warded, and our carry has boots and a salve 30 minutes into the game. So I get it -- I know why you're angry with me when I, or someone I queued with, or someone who says "champ" in chat, ends up playing badly. And while I don't think raging should be tolerated, you should be able to have a good game too.

    You don't want to play with me, and I don't want to play with you. So what I suggest is simple: Two (or more) queues for matchmaking. If you queue up in the competitive queue, I expect you to play your best, and you can expect the same of me. A little raging is tolerable, because we don't want our game ruined by the guy who picked Kunkka and misses every stun. If you queue up in the casual queue, you accept that you can't win every game, and maybe your allies are a bit tired, or new, or just want to try a new hero/build. If our support doesn't buy a courier, rather than raging at him, you decide to pick up the courier when you have a couple extra gold. You joined the queue to have fun, and are willing to have fun even when losing.

    EDIT: People don't seem to understand my suggestion, so to make it clearer: You will still be playing with people of your skill level. This is not "noobs queue" and a "hardcore queue". Every game, before you play, you will select one queue depending on your mood, and be queued with other people of your skill (automatically determined, as it is now) who selected the same queue. Complete beginners can choose competitive if they want to develop skills and play to win -- they will be matched with other like-minded beginners. Here's a quick summary of player categories, for those who are still confused. Only the "Casual/Competitive" part would be chosen by the player the skill level and experience would be automagically determined, just as it is now.
    • New, Competitive: People who read guides/watch videos and want to become top-tier players. A good environment for learning.
    • New, Casual: People who are just starting to play and don't take themselves too seriously. Wards optional.
    • Experienced, Low Skill, Competitive: RAAAAGE
    • Experienced, Low Skill, Casual: Groups of friends messing around
    • Experienced, Medium Skill, Competitive: You are here
    • Experienced, Medium Skill, Casual: Practicing a new build, playing with a lower-skilled friend, or are okay with losing and want to avoid badmouthing
    • Experienced, High Skill, Competitive: You think you are here
    • Experienced, High Skill, Casual: Divine Rapier on Crystal Maiden

    Why practice games don't work: Practice games don't have matchmaking. If I join a practice game, I'm as likely to get matched up with a total noob as with a pro.

    (DISCLAIMER: I know there's a "matchmaking feedback" thread above, and I feel this topic is disparate enough from that one to justify its existence)
    Last edited by slowreflex; 03-13-2012, 12:09 PM. Reason: Changed Title to be more descriptive

  • #2
    epic conffesion is epic.
    Shut your and keep reading


    • #3
      I don't blame you, MM is currently non-existent.


      • #4
        +1 I like this post. I think having more queues would make the game more enjoyable for the reasons stated above. Maybe even a practice queue where you know the other guys on you team are trying new things out and you'd already have a mindset when going to the game that it isn't so serious and that it's ok to get the "wrong item build".

        It's annoying to try and learn the more difficult heroes if you get a higher ranking playing Sven, Lich, Slardar or some such hero and you really can't learn something like timing Kunkka with bots, not to mention playing Shadow Fiend skillfully.


        • #5
          Had a suggestion here, related to this but some thought it is too complex and its original version affects game play but I believe it solves the OP concern somehow.



          • #6
            nice thread


            • #7
              Nicely written :-P nicely demonstrates the need for seperate matchmaking it's already been suggested btw


              • #8
                One issue I see here is that these casuals you speak of still will queue into competitive. And they will get yelled at. And some competitive players will have a bad day, and suck. And they will be told to go play with the casuals. The only thing this would partially solve is that competitive players now can get slightly better games since they are queuing with what you hope are other competitive players.

                As long as your idea lets people have a choice, you'll still end up with these situations where non-serious players are playing with serious players (you are hitting the right subject area though, game expectations which is a big part of the attitude issue). And now people will just insult others by telling them to queue casual since they aren't competitive material. You should understand this since your post is all about people not understanding why people might suck from time to time even after playing 100 games.


                • #9
                  we need more solutions like this to improve dota's community.
                  FIX TEAM MATCHMAKING


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Avs View Post
                    One issue I see here is that..........
                    To be a professional at something or are least good at it - you need to spend learning the subject for about 10,000 hours ( That's the average )
                    The only fix for it is that there should be a skill requirement ( let's say 50/50 win loss ratio minimum ) to join a ranked/tournament queue. If you fall bellow - your out.

                    Cause - what makes you think noobs/begginers/new players will not hit that "competitive matchmaking" button just out of curiosity or cause of the fact that playing with the best is the fastest learning curve?
                    Shut your and keep reading


                    • #11
                      People just need to learn that its impossible to win everygame, you ill win then you lose, most of the time (no matter how good you are) its close do 50/50 or 40/60.

                      Just try have the most fun of everygame and youll not be raging, try help who is doing badly, have a friendly chat with the oposing team... its the hardest thing for DotA players to do. I dont know if its because of the avarage age or anything, as childs tend to be more immature (duh).

                      Sometimes i feel teh avarage age of DotA players is way low than other more "childish"games like LoL, in DotA/DotA2 i have a badmanner in 80% of the games, in LoL its less than 20%.


                      • #12
                        In retrospect, your idea is nice on paper but would utterly fail.


                        People in dota are notorious for suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. This means that a lot of players who are newbs (like yourself) are deluded and they always blame someone else for their lack of skill. No matter how bad they mess up, they'll always find someone else on their team to blame, with or (typically) without merit. You are in the minority here, OP.

                        So those newbs will always go for the competitive matchmaking option if the choice is given, thinking how they are up to the task, and then THOSE SAME PEOPLE will come here and whine how it's full of newbies.

                        But the problem is, actually, two-fold. People that DO know how to play will purposely join the newbie league just to devastate noobs, so they will ruin the fun of the low-bracket ladder too.


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Infiltrator View Post
                          I don't blame you, MM is currently non-existent.
                          That's not my point, though... It's about attitude, not skill level, and there's no automated way to do this. If I'm playing my best, I don't want to play with people messing around, and when I'm messing around I don't want to play with ragers. If I wanted to bump my MMR, I could pubstomp 20 games with Nightstalker until I get to an MMR bracket where people could counter him. But I don't want to do that.


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Infiltrator View Post
                            In retrospect, your idea is nice on paper but would utterly fail.
                            Shut your and keep reading


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by sYs View Post
                              To be a professional at something or are least good at it - you need to spend learning the subject for about 10,000 hours ( That's the average )
                              The only fix for it is that there should be a skill requirement ( let's say 50/50 win loss ratio minimum ) to join a ranked/tournament queue. If you fall bellow - your out.

                              Cause - what makes you think noobs/begginers/new players will not hit that "competitive matchmaking" button just out of curiosity or cause of the fact that playing with the best is the fastest learning curve?
                              10,000 hours is what a book says. Are you telling me this book is the absolute rule or someone's opinion because their ability to master something is around that average as they've been only able to prove to themselves? Anyways, irrelevant.

                              I don't get your point here, people can decide arbitrary points as to why they choose it. It becomes definitive when they tell you why, but you'd have to put yourself in their shoes to figure it out. Now your competitive queue has a 1:1 win ratio to stay in it, and that's going to cause different kinds of issues. First of all, you are now forcing the casual queue to win in order to qualify. But these people are casual, and now they are expected to win to get into the competitive queue? But you're probably thinking, "oh casuals don't care". What if you were a competitive player who just lost 10 games in a row. How are you going to win those games back in a lower tier, non serious game where people think its OK to feed, afk, do stupid things because its casual. Think about what kind of environment you're setting up here. Second, you just invalidated the purpose of the casual match making by creating a barrier of entry to the competitive match making. There's just tons of things wrong here.