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We really need stats now.

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  • Originally posted by HMAN911 View Post
    Guys please stay on topic - you are simply descending into verbally abusing each other now. Agree to disagree and move on, let it rest.

    The Black Box mentality works well for this instance - not knowing how the MMR/ELO/whatever you want to call it matchmaking score system works is one of the things that makes it so powerful.
    i agree with this guy...

    stereodic just assumes about everything... not worth talking to him as he has preconceived notions coming into the topic and he thinks valve uses Elo just because he said so.

    Comment


    • T-Down

      KS would get out of control when playing with the Call of Duty 14 year old "pro k/d ratio" type of kids. Kids would back out of fights to avoid deaths and save all their nukes for last. Also it would make players who like to support look like s*** because they don't farm and try to leave kills for the carries. Also games would have even more bounty hunters/maginas/rikis/ursas/etc.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MasterfulWizard View Post
        I think stats would be an OK feature if you could only see your own stats.

        Because there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to see someone elses stats.
        how about checking if you should let him solo or not

        Comment


        • Originally posted by kaliteros View Post
          how about checking if you should let him solo or not
          How will the guy with shit stats who wants to solo ever improve if nobody lets him do it because his stats are so bad? 'Checking stats' is a excessive luxury that was introduced by dear old HoN that never should have been there in the first place. Someone with great stats can have a bad game and absolutely fail. Someone with terrible stats can be in a good lane matchup and kick ass. Higher KDR or GPM are directly influenced by whether you play carries or not. Play more carries > get better stats.
          Last edited by HMAN911; 03-06-2012, 07:18 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by HMAN911 View Post
            Guys please stay on topic - you are simply descending into verbally abusing each other now. Agree to disagree and move on, let it rest.

            The Black Box mentality works well for this instance - not knowing how the MMR/ELO/whatever you want to call it matchmaking score system works is one of the things that makes it so powerful.
            How is it possible that everyone here thinks there's some secret method to dota 2 rating? Do you think they'd ever let kills/deaths/wards bought/the amount of pubic hair you have get into the matchmaking equation?

            I really have a hard time imagining how anyone who is not trolling would seriously consider this.

            @MasterfulWizard assuming you're not a troll, you're asking him to prove something fairly obvious. Even if dota 2 doesn't use ELO, it still uses a system that takes into account only the games you've played and the results of them, so his initial point still stands. There are no magic algrorithms that can rate dota players. It's only a matter of time before the rating system goes public anyway.

            You surely don't think a game with no proof that a matchmaking system even exists will attract million of players (which is the goal).

            Comment


            • Originally posted by MasterfulWizard View Post
              And you're basing your argument on an assumption..

              Nothing of value to read from this guys posts.

              I don't think you realize how erroneous it is to apply a 1v1 rating system (Elo) to a team game.
              There are plenty of variations of the Elo system used in the likes of Major League Baseball. And they work quite well, because in MLB they don't just pay attention to your K/D/R and if you decide to troll a game you get removed from the league indefinitely.

              Originally posted by stereodic View Post
              You call me out on making assumptions, yet you make plenty yourself. Where did 1000 games come from, is that some concrete fact I wasn't aware of? Then you assume there is going to be a ladder, this hasn't been confirmed either.

              Then you launch a personal attack without actually addressing my last point at all.

              All the hallmarks of a troll post, thanks for contributing.
              There must be a ladder. You cannot have an AoS game without some form of ladder. All we have to go on right now is assumptions until they are proven. Check all the facts, disprove him or agree with him, then move on.

              Originally posted by MasterfulWizard View Post
              yes, i'm a hypocritical troll
              NO SH*T.

              Originally posted by MasterfulWizard View Post
              Why? you are someone who accepts things as they are instead of improving on them.

              Pointless to talk to u
              I found your original post. You said you wanted stats for yourself. You said your point. After that you directly started targeting peoples posts, for whatever reason, and aggressively challenging them senselessly. Its probably pointless to talk to you but lets do it anyway.

              Originally posted by HMAN911 View Post
              Guys please stay on topic - you are simply descending into verbally abusing each other now. Agree to disagree and move on, let it rest.

              The Black Box mentality works well for this instance - not knowing how the MMR/ELO/whatever you want to call it matchmaking score system works is one of the things that makes it so powerful.
              Agreed... but it wont happen. We might as well just try to get at least entertainment value or worthwhile knowledge out of it.

              Originally posted by stereodic View Post
              Add a source saying they aren't, please and thank you.
              Ok use some common sense here, you cannot have an AoS system without some form of match maker all of which are based off Elo. Hes talking out of his ass now. READ:
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system
              http://chesselo.com/
              http://www.eloratings.net/system.html

              Originally posted by kaliteros View Post
              how about checking if you should let him solo or not
              Who gives you the right to tell him whether or not he can solo? If you say "OMG your not taking mid I am" and you go mid when hes already there, and he says "...jesus don't (@(# it up." and goes bottom, I am taking HIM with me not you, because he wants to win and isn't going to doom our team with double mid fighting each other.

              Comment


              • [email protected] grandbreaker editing quotes to take the meaning out of context

                Comment


                • Originally posted by HMAN911 View Post
                  How will the guy with shit stats who wants to solo ever improve if nobody lets him do it because his stats are so bad? 'Checking stats' is a excessive luxury that was introduced by dear old HoN that never should have been there in the first place.
                  Looking at someone's stats (and by that I mean his matchmaking rating, and not stupid shit like kill/death ratio) is a necessity available in hon (where kdr is also available which is a bad thing in my opinion), lol (players are matched in order -highest is on first slot and lowest on last- so they can organize their picks) and to my knowledge and major DOTA 1 leagues (dota-league, dotalicious)

                  If joe is 1000 rated and the rest of his team (and enemies) are 1400 rated perhaps he should just not mid and do something less crucial- he can mid all he wants when we plays with/against players of the same level.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by kaliteros View Post
                    How is it possible that everyone here thinks there's some secret method to dota 2 rating? Do you think they'd ever let kills/deaths/wards bought/the amount of pubic hair you have get into the matchmaking equation?

                    I really have a hard time imagining how anyone who is not trolling would seriously consider this.

                    @MasterfulWizard assuming you're not a troll, you're asking him to prove something fairly obvious. Even if dota 2 doesn't use ELO, it still uses a system that takes into account only the games you've played and the results of them, so his initial point still stands. There are no magic algrorithms that can rate dota players. It's only a matter of time before the rating system goes public anyway.

                    You surely don't think a game with no proof that a matchmaking system even exists will attract million of players (which is the goal).
                    How do your comments relate to my post? Do you know exactly how the rating system works for Dota 2? No you do not. Neither do I. Where did I ever mention it was complex or sophisticated? I simply said we dont know how it works - and we dont. A black box system does not mean nobody on the planet knows how it works - it is a reference to the general use of the item. Most people dont know the inner workings of a car engine, but many mechanics do. Someone will figure out how the rating system works eventually, but most players wont know about the intricacies of it. That's the beauty of it, if the average player thinks that "As long as I play my best and try to win my rating will improve", it will ensure a good game for all players involved.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by kaliteros View Post
                      Looking at someone's stats (and by that I mean his matchmaking rating, and not stupid shit like kill/death ratio) is a necessity available in hon (where kdr is also available which is a bad thing in my opinion), lol (players are matched in order -highest is on first slot and lowest on last- so they can organize their picks) and to my knowledge and major DOTA 1 leagues (dota-league, dotalicious)

                      If joe is 1000 rated and the rest of his team (and enemies) are 1400 rated perhaps he should just not mid and do something less crucial- he can mid all he wants when we plays with/against players of the same level.
                      Which stats will you look at apart from KDR to judge Joe's proficiency in the game?

                      What if Joe has been having a bad week and has been on a losing streak to bring him down from 1400's? What if Joe plays support mainly but wants to play carry in your particular game in order to improve his skills in that role?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by GrandBreaker View Post
                        Who gives you the right to tell him whether or not he can solo? If you say "OMG your not taking mid I am" and you go mid when hes already there, and he says "...jesus don't (@(# it up." and goes bottom, I am taking HIM with me not you, because he wants to win and isn't going to doom our team with double mid fighting each other.
                        Don't assume I'll just pick a mid hero and go grief him when he has shadow fiend (unless he's one of those assholes who talk shit right when they enter a game) , the idea is we can talk about it before we pick while knowing what grounds we're standing on. I'm not saying it will resolve all problems or anything, but it's way better than random arrangement of everything in every game.

                        You're automatically assuming that whoever is highest rated person in the team will automatically be a cunt.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by kaliteros View Post
                          Looking at someone's stats (and by that I mean his matchmaking rating, and not stupid shit like kill/death ratio) is a necessity available in hon (where kdr is also available which is a bad thing in my opinion), lol (players are matched in order -highest is on first slot and lowest on last- so they can organize their picks) and to my knowledge and major DOTA 1 leagues (dota-league, dotalicious)

                          If joe is 1000 rated and the rest of his team (and enemies) are 1400 rated perhaps he should just not mid and do something less crucial- he can mid all he wants when we plays with/against players of the same level.
                          judging someone based on your preconceived notions of whatever group you are putting them into is terrible and stupid.

                          what if the 1,000 rated player just came into dota 2 from dota and is a pro player?????
                          Last edited by MasterfulWizard; 03-06-2012, 07:44 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by HMAN911 View Post
                            Which stats will you look at apart from KDR to judge Joe's proficiency in the game?

                            What if Joe has been having a bad week and has been on a losing streak to bring him down from 1400's? What if Joe plays support mainly but wants to play carry in your particular game in order to improve his skills in that role?
                            His matchmaking rating of course. KDR is a _completely_ irrelevant stat in such games.

                            Let's suppose that players range from ratings 500 for the lowest player and 2500 for the highest. If joe is 1400 rated usually, he might tank to 1300 or 1250 but it's very, very, very unlikely that he'll tank to 1000.

                            And if he does so what? He'll be confident to solo against another 1400 and he'll be back up at his proper rating soon anyway.

                            Changing roles isn't that big. The main parts of dota are universal anyway.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by MasterfulWizard View Post
                              judging someone based on your preconceived notions of whatever group you are putting them into is terrible and stupid.

                              what if the 1,000 rated player just came into dota 2 from dota and is a pro player?????
                              ...then he will be 1000 rated for a couple of games and then he'll start climbing?

                              Judging someone from the matchmaking rating is perfectly fine- the system itself judges players by it when it's making the fucking teams.

                              It's not like the world is going to end if you misjudge someone (because he's sitting on a different rating than his real one because of whatever rare occasion)
                              Last edited by kaliteros; 03-06-2012, 08:20 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by HMAN911 View Post
                                How do your comments relate to my post? Do you know exactly how the rating system works for Dota 2? No you do not. Neither do I. Where did I ever mention it was complex or sophisticated? I simply said we dont know how it works - and we dont. A black box system does not mean nobody on the planet knows how it works - it is a reference to the general use of the item. Most people dont know the inner workings of a car engine, but many mechanics do. Someone will figure out how the rating system works eventually, but most players wont know about the intricacies of it. That's the beauty of it, if the average player thinks that "As long as I play my best and try to win my rating will improve", it will ensure a good game for all players involved.
                                It's not rocket science to figure out how it works, you win and you gain rating, you lose and you lose rating ? What other way could it possibly work? Of course the player will think that his rating will improve if he's plays his best and wins- that's the only way it can work.

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