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  • Originally posted by Infinity Gems View Post

    I agree with Grandbreaker 101% unequivocally, as well as Irrelevante. Both are so true and correct, and dog's, can we be adult's and not say *Grandbreaker god you're stupid", bit childish and really makes you shine throughout this community. If you are getting mad because your arguments are being defeated and you have nothing else to retort back without beating around the bush and turning this into an even bigger delusion of granduer. Stay quiet and let others speak their mind. If you have nothing worthwhile to say or to POSITIVELY add to this forum, please do not post.


    As i see your post was QUICKLY edited to remove all bashing and attacks towards those who oppose your views. Really glad to see these mod's fast at work, even as late as it is.
    you sicken me, seriously you SICKEN ME.

    btw i removed the comments because i realised they were unnecessary, no mods were involved.

    seriously, you sicken me, your existence makes me ill. like what you just wrote is the most OFFENSIVE thing i have ever read ever, and you will never understand why its so offensive, you will never understand a lot of things this life has to offer.

    i cant - just - wow, i dont even. yuck
    Last edited by dogsdogsdogs; 04-16-2012, 12:45 AM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by dogsdogsdogs View Post
      you sicken me, seriously you SICKEN ME.

      btw i removed the comments because i realised they were unnecessary, no mods were involved.

      seriously, you sicken me, your existence makes me ill. like what you just wrote is the most OFFENSIVE thing i have ever read ever, and you will never understand why its so offensive, you will never understand a lot of things this life has to offer.

      i cant - just - wow, i dont even. yuck
      Ladies and gentlemen. This kid has lost all credibility as a poster and, for future reference, his posts can be ignored. Anyone else want to advocate the prostats side or can we just let this thread die a second time?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Irrelevante View Post
        Still, it's a guess that's looking more and more to be true.

        http://dota2.cyborgmatt.com/store/24...FebStore_5.jpg

        Item slots for you to place each individual cosmetic avatar change. Cyborgmatt's been calling it a loadout, but I've got the feeling you and I have different definitions for "loadout", so far I just see it as the combination of cosmetic avatar changes you want your hero to use. But for what I can gather from your post here, are you saying that this whole loadout idea should be dumped to prevent the game from looking like a joke?

        I can agree with that. LoL does look like a convoluted mess of bad jokes right now and I certainly wouldn't want dota 2 to take the same direction. Then again, there's still hope that the in-game items are the only thing that's going to be globally displayed for all players and also the hope that such items will be created by the same art directors that have been bringing us such great work so far (I can admit I'm eager to obtain some of the items that cyborgmatt mined up). And, hey, Steam workshop seems to be also on the works so if someone wants jugger to wield a giant dildo, then they can have it.

        Back on topic:

        Still waiting for a reasonable way to interpret stats for player improvement.
        If steam ever did successfully make a load out system where you can equip a specific vanity item to your account and it would always appear on a specific hero when you chose him, I would be amazed. The reason is that between the normal avatar and the alternate avatars (of which there are normally at least 2) there are 3 specific pre-loaded skins which load into the game. Adding these custom items would create more strain on the servers, increase graphics requirements, increase the data used in matches, and overall cause problems. Someone actually tried a similar thing before, over at Loco (Land of Chaos Online) you have 5 "armor sets" of Helm+chest+legs+hands and either 1h or 2h weapons. The armor sets changed themselves when you leveled up at specific intervals 1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-16, 17-19 (odd number I know) and these armors had their own skins. They even had character specific armors and weapons, I played Atin who could use either a 2h sword or 2 1hswords. Level up from 8 to 9 and I had epic gear for that level instance, I had a 2second delay because my entire gear set changed. And that crap had STATS on it, it was broken as hell. Even if the items for a loadout in Dota2 were entirely vanity, they would create more strain on the servers since they would be changing the look for the normal and alternate costumes. The reason I am saying they are most likely going to TF2 is because there are already 3 items in TF2 that are promotional strange items from Dota2. Snipers Snipin' Glass, Storm Spirits Jolly Hat, and something else that escapes me. These items are strictly strange items for TF2 but the theme for the items is Dota2. So if they were to, they could add Juggernauts swords to TF2 as "Strange items". They can add Tidehunter's giant anchor as a "Strange item". You see where I am going with this? They have already made 3 of them. Those pictures have got to be either parts of the alternate costumes already planned for Dota2 heroes, or strange items to be used in TF2, because a loadout in Dota2 would just not be worth it.

        Also, we should probably make a thread for this topic rather than keep discussing it here on the stats forum.

        Originally posted by HMAN911 View Post
        I agree with most of your arguments GrandBreaker and argued stated previously in this thread that stats really do not bring much to the table but do bring a lot negativity.

        I think your arguments around 'loadout' are slightly miscommunicated. Your definition of loadout is perhaps more similar to loadout's in a game like BF3, where you actually change your gear that has a real impact on the game "Sniper rifle VS shotgun".

        The current evidence found within the game files indicate that there will be a function to equip vanity items specific to each hero. These will be purely cosmetic and have no impact on gameplay. You can see the unreleased loadout screen along with current designs for the layout of the screen below:

        http://www.cyborgmatt.com/2012/02/dota-2-test-24th-feb/

        I am certain that there will be a loadout element to dota 2 when it releases. This will be Valve's primary revenue source for Dota 2. I actually expect the item drops system to be introduced into the Beta right after the International 2 concludes (I also have a feeling that they will announce open beta at that stage).

        I do have some concerns with the Item 'drops' in dota though. In the latest post by cyborgmatt, there are attributes that will be recorded against items. It seems that there will be an attribute that tracks number of 'carry kills'. The last thing I want to see is a crystal maiden trying to kill carries in the game in order to get more kills recorded against their weapon.

        Maybe if they use that attribute on items that carries will use. Having that attribute on a sword for Juggernaut for instance wont be so bad, because Juggernaut should be killing carries anyway. Support players should have items that count kill assists. I hope Valve does right by the item drop system - it has a lot of potential and is a great way to keep the graphics guys in a job, while keeping Dota 2 feeling fresh. The revenue is just a boon
        Yes yes, I've seen it all done before. When he says "Action Item" he means "taunts". A great example (can't believe I'm saying something good about them) is HoN's taunts. You must purchase any taunt at all in HoN from their store. From that point your heroes may use them. There is the normal taunt, then there is the Baby Taunt (A player you kill turns into a crying baby upon death) the Gore Taunt (A player you kill explodes into a torrent of blood and guts upon death) the Trash Can taunt (They explode into trash. Literally garbage) and the Rock Taunt (A giant demonic hand comes out from the ground and crushes them, then does a big rock on hand sign) you have to buy them then "equip them" which just means turning them on. You can't use multiple taunts at once, so if you have Metal and Baby taunt, you have to select one between matches. Same with couriers, they had a pig, goblin, dragon, Chicken, Penguin and Nyan Nyan cat. You have to "Equip" your courier and as long as YOU buy the courier it comes out as whatever you purchased. So for example, the penguin carries a satchel but if you upgrade it it flies around on a jet pack. If you have alternate costumes for heroes, you would select the hero first then designate which Avatar you want. I used to play Amun Ra a lot, so I would first select "Amun Ra" then after I locked in I selected "King Ra" for the alternate skin I had for him. Announcers, you had to do the same thing. I see the head back and Shoulder equip thing, and I do not know what that could be. Again, it can't be a loadout system because they already have Orca Tidebringer revealed at the bottom. Alternate skins would clash with vanity items used like that.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by spektor View Post
          Ok, let's imagine that stuff for Juggernaut and Nature prophet is made for TF2. This raises several questions:
          1) Why is it in DOTA 2 files and not in TF2 beta?
          2) Why would they do cosmetics for other game at this time?
          3) How do you explain this?
          4) There's scores for in last cyborgmatt's post, which include stuff like "treants created" or "wards placed". As far as I know there is no ability to create treants or place ward in TF2. You can argue that these stats are tracked in DOTA 2 but shown in TF2 but this is... too complicated.
          4) Also there, different parts of the character model are defined as items (on the example of Broodmother: legs, body, "hair").
          Lastly, to your argument about "it worked in X title". None of these games are developed from Valve, but Valve has TF2 where this stuff worked, and worked very good (for Valve, that is; I still get annoyed by people who just stand on spawn and spam "WTB X FOR Y").

          And, to conclude, while there's always possibility that they just scratch this stuff for skins (the only reason I personally see for that is something like demopan could easily be created; but, honestly, as long as valve does not go overboard with items ideas there's nothing to worry about), it's highly unlikely. Think about it: they put stuff in, so they plan to do it. They can scratch it, but right now it's still there, so they still planning to do it.


          Well... you can play some supports as a carry or semi-carry, no?
          1 - Because they originated in Dota 2.
          2 - Its called "promotional merchandising". They already released 3 of them.
          3 - Well for starters, that page looks incredibly photo shopped. I just saved that picture and added it as an attachment for you to see. I labeled the "Layers" that it looks like someone cut and pasted together, Circled points that don't make sense because they overlap and because you can see something else behind it, and the big square in the middle. Wtf is that? For another thing, that axe has no changes to him. Not anything at all he looks the same as any old Axe thus far.
          4 - Promotional Items do a variety of things. VERY rarely will one give you an advantage in game. However, some of them will make "Fun things happen" if you will. Since that one says "Summon Treants" I would think it allows you to summon a group of Treants (Just like Natures Prophet does) and they probably dance or something.
          4#2 - TF2 is a first person shooter and was designed for certain aspects of the character you play to be tweakable. Guns, helmets, boxing gloves, etc are in TF2, which again is a 1st person shooter. It does not work in Dota2 because the games are way to fundamentally different, it was not made to do so. The other games that preceded Dota2 are not much different, to be honest you can't do THAT utterly much when it comes to AoS games. The rare exceptions are Loco (Which favored a 3rd person 3d perspective and allowed you to JUMP, similar to Savage:2) and LoL (Their Dominion map is a new twist, one of the only positive things I will say about them).

          The reason they probably have them is that Micro Transactions are a very profitable thing to focus on. Players of these games just love alternate skins, alternate couriers, special taunts, new announcers. They will spend a surprising amount of money on them. The reason LoL did so much better than HoN is because they come up with new alternate costumes and heroes CONSTANTLY. If you design it, they will buy it. It makes sense that at release they will want a number of alternate skins and taunts/announcers/couriers available for people to cash in and buy. When making an alternate costume, textures, effects, and the such always have to be looked at in the points that count. Hell Natures Prophet's alternate skins could potentially summon different Treants than normal. Picture this:

          "Infernal Natures Prophet" hes perpetually on fire, and corrupted to the point of turning upon Nature itself. He looks evil and has a newer, spikier staff. The treants he summons are dead trees like on the Dire side of the map that also happen to be on fire. When he summons a circle of trees to trap people, they are Dire side trees. When he uses his ult, instead of wind and leaves bouncing around its fire and leaves.

          ^^Thats actually very doable. It would be an Alternate Skin. It comes with alternate quotes, alternate spell effects, alternate textures. And if you could buy load out items for him, then you buy that eagle looking staff on the page and add it to this skin, either you strain the server because Infernal Furion now has a shiny divine looking staff loaded onto him, or it overwrites the alternate skin because it isn't compatible.

          And man we really need a thread for this.

          Also, the ability of a player to change your play style with the hero your using to fit the situation at hand is called SKILL. Changing your tactics is called SKILL. Reacting to your enemies tactics and thinking on your feet is called SKILL! These items will not have stats like agility or strength on them. Loco did that... it really hurt their community. I'm honestly amazed they haven't gone the route of Demo-God and died off, some of the simplest stat items equipped are so amazingly broken it isn't even funny.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Infinity Gems View Post

            I agree with Grandbreaker 101% unequivocally, as well as Irrelevante. Both are so true and correct, and dog's, can we be adult's and not say *Grandbreaker god you're stupid", bit childish and really makes you shine throughout this community. If you are getting mad because your arguments are being defeated and you have nothing else to retort back without beating around the bush and turning this into an even bigger delusion of granduer. Stay quiet and let others speak their mind. If you have nothing worthwhile to say or to POSITIVELY add to this forum, please do not post.


            As i see your post was QUICKLY edited to remove all bashing and attacks towards those who oppose your views. Really glad to see these mod's fast at work, even as late as it is.
            I don't agree with Irrelevante all the time, but I can tell you he knows his shit more than most on these forums. Listen to him, most of the time he makes damn good sense. At any rate, lets let this thread die. Stats wont be coming, they bring naught but digital misery and calamity with them.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by GrandBreaker View Post
              If steam ever did successfully make a load out system where you can equip a specific vanity item to your account and it would always appear on a specific hero when you chose him, I would be amazed.
              How can it strain the engine more than it already is? Hero models are already split into different parts.





              So you can easily have the server tell your game client to show different pieces of vanity armor depending on the selection of loadouts of the players. Nothing too complicated to pull off.

              Even cyborgmatt can confirm this for you:

              With a lot of the heroes now being broken down into multiple model parts, we’ve some updates that cover the new Broodmother and Lone Druid parts:
              On-topic:

              Someone's going to side up with prostats sooner or later, so meh.

              Comment


              • BH is more buff than I thought.

                Comment


                • If you dont see a point in playing then you should stop playing.. No one will miss you.. also if you want stats play HoN..
                  †André†

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by dogsdogsdogs View Post
                    you sicken me, seriously you SICKEN ME.

                    seriously, you sicken me, your existence makes me ill.
                    You have been warned before, you have been given a second chance. Comments like these are unacceptable.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Irrelevante View Post
                      How can it strain the engine more than it already is? Hero models are already split into different parts.





                      So you can easily have the server tell your game client to show different pieces of vanity armor depending on the selection of loadouts of the players. Nothing too complicated to pull off.

                      Even cyborgmatt can confirm this for you:



                      On-topic:

                      Someone's going to side up with prostats sooner or later, so meh.
                      Thats basic 3D graphic design, breaking it down into pieces.

                      Back on topic:

                      I would hope that Valve is intelligent enough to take prior events into account with their game and stats. It's no secret how toxic stats made HoN's community, and all of the other games I mentioned are easily viewable by Valves staff. They might have even already played them. Not to mention that performance bar works rather well, they already gave us a way to view our performance with a specific hero, why do we even need stats besides "Zomg your kdr is da suxorz mine is da shizznat"? There isnt an arguement that they can make that will trounce the performance bar.

                      Comment


                      • People need to realize one thing: performance bar is not your overall/global performance. It is your performance using that specific hero COMPARED to other people with similar skills as yours using that specific hero.

                        I know if I play properly, I will have higher bars for tiny/pudge/techies/NS etc. May be higher than you. But does that mean I am better than you? NO!
                        May be my skill levels is (let's assume) 7, and your skill level is 10.

                        So even if you have 2 bars with tiny and I have 5 bars with tiny, you are the better player here (according to the game's calculation).

                        Now, we do not know this so called skill level. It is hidden. So you can NOT compare performance bar with anyone else. It is something you need to compare with yourself.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CvP View Post
                          People need to realize one thing: performance bar is not your overall/global performance. It is your performance using that specific hero COMPARED to other people with similar skills as yours using that specific hero.

                          I know if I play properly, I will have higher bars for tiny/pudge/techies/NS etc. May be higher than you. But does that mean I am better than you? NO!
                          May be my skill levels is (let's assume) 7, and your skill level is 10.

                          So even if you have 2 bars with tiny and I have 5 bars with tiny, you are the better player here (according to the game's calculation).

                          Now, we do not know this so called skill level. It is hidden. So you can NOT compare performance bar with anyone else. It is something you need to compare with yourself.
                          Give us statistics, to avoid players being trolled separate the statistics on hero roles.
                          Example:
                          These stats are for carry:
                          kills/deaths, last hits/denies, towers, gold per minute etc, total damage done etc.
                          These stats are for support:
                          kills/deaths, last hits/denies, towers, gold per minute, wards, smoke, average healing done/per game etc etc.
                          This way players can't troll the ppl that tend to play with supports and have bad stats.
                          Ladder, showing your standing among other players.
                          Why did valve remove the wins/loses with that specific hero at the performance bar? When the data is only available to you!
                          Seriously, whats next? Removing the wins/loses and replacing them with total games played?

                          Comment


                          • I used to be pro stats, show them all off etc., but I'm over it. I feel that a lot of people would be too held back by their stats showing and fail to try and improve, only play customs, quit laddering etc. I don't really want people made fun of or laughed at before the games even start because their stats aren't very good, it ruins morale and will only make the person play worse.

                            However, I do think we should have a plethora of stats privately. I should be able to track my own progress at least. As it is now, I've resorted to running excel books to track wins/loss by hero, by teammate, etc.

                            tl;dr

                            I'm ok with the removal of public stats, but give us something to read in our own profiles. ~_~

                            Comment


                            • Yeah, I think it'd be great to know what bracket you're currently playing in.

                              The performance metrics are lame, anyway. I don't even check them and pick what I want.

                              Comment


                              • Anyone play this game just to have fun not caring about rather you win or lose as long as you had fun in the end, or is it all just competitive. Stats are only good for competition rather it be with yourself or with others, I personally don't care if they give private stats or not, I will continue to play DOTA 2 because it's actually a fun game, not because I want to relish my stats plus the hero performance thing is good enough for me.

                                OFF TOPIC: Interesting to note that this thread has more replies and views then any of the stickies in the Misc forum.
                                Last edited by great; 04-16-2012, 08:40 PM.

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