Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules

  • No flaming or derogatory remarks, directly or through insinuation.
  • No discussion, sharing or referencing illegal software such as hacks, keygen, cracks and pirated software.
  • No offensive contents, including but not limited to, racism, gore or pornography.
  • No excessive spam/meme, i.e. copious one liners in a short period of time, typing with all caps or posting meme responses (text/image).
  • No trolling, including but not limited to, flame incitation, user provocation or false information distribution.
  • No link spamming or signature advertisements for content not specific to Dota 2.
  • No Dota 2 key requests, sell, trade etc.
  • You may not create multiple accounts for any purpose, including ban evasion, unless expressly permitted by a moderator.

  • Please search before posting. One thread per issue. Do not create another thread if there is an existing one already.
  • Before posting anything, make sure you check out all sticky threads (e.g., this). Do not create new threads about closed ones.
  • It is extremely important that you post in correct forum section.

  • Balance discussion only in Misc.
  • All art related (such as hero model) feedbacks go to Art Feedback Forum.
  • All matchmaking feedback should go here: Matchmaking Feedback
  • All report/low priority issues should go here: Commend/Report/Ban Feedback
  • No specific workshop item feedback. These should go to workshop page of that item.
  • When posting in non-bugs section (such as this), use [Bugs], [Discussion] or [Suggestion] prefix in your thread name.



In case you object some action by a moderator, please contact him directly through PM and explain your concerns politely. If you are still unable to resolve the issue, contact an administrator. Do not drag these issues in public.



All rules are meant to augment common sense, please use them when not conflicted with aforementioned policies.
See more
See less

We really need stats now.

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Korthac View Post
    I still haven't read a post that explains the downside of having private stats. (Stats that only you can see for yourself) There is absolutely no reason I cannot see my own performance ratings in a match. I would love to know how many wards I put down in a match so I know if I am wasting the ward stock in the shop without watching every replay. Things like that are important and if I want easy access to those statistics I see no reason to not include them as a private statistic, this already exists with performance bars except the bars are worthless. Hard stats would do amazing things for the game and if you get creative with it, it will improve and bond together the entire community.
    Have you read more than a few pages of this thread? People have already mentioned what you said. go to http://stats.dota2.be, your stats are available there. They dont have ward stats though. Aren't those available at the end of match?

    Edit: Already got ninja'd, my bad.
    Last edited by Cait_Sith; 07-08-2012, 09:49 AM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cait_Sith View Post
      Have you read more than a few pages of this thread? People have already mentioned what you said. go to http://stats.dota2.be, your stats are available there. They dont have ward stats though. Aren't those available at the end of match?

      Edit: Already got ninja'd, my bad.
      Then you must have not seen my post earlier about why Stats.dota2.be is a sorry excuse for stats that works around what Valve was trying to prevent anyway. -_-

      Comment


      • Lets be honest right now if you are a solo player theres literally no reason to perform on any decent level and not going for mek antimage cause w/l affect nothing beside "invisible mmr" and meaningless wl% why meaningless? cause everyone is between 48-55% due to weird mm :0

        Comment


        • In my opinion, they should change the way Strange items stat tracking works. At the moment you get a lump sum that doesn't mean anything. I have a piece that counts kills, wards placed and first bloods. If it tells me 500 Kills, 200 Wards Placed and 25 First Bloods, that honestly doesn't mean anything to me. A simple solution is to make it show totals AND per/game averages. So using the numbers above, 500 Kills (5 per game), 200 Wards Placed (2 per game), 25 First Bloods (0.25 per game).

          Not only does this give people the stats they want, it generates more income for Valve as Strange items will become desirable, people will purchase keys and want to open chests. The stats should track retroactively too to make it more useful. I love Pudge, but just because there are no items yet for him means I don't get to track my stats?

          Edit: I ended up making a post about this here. I had an interesting idea to make Strange items in different slots track different stats, rather than them all just tracking Kills as most of them currently do.
          Last edited by CK011885; 07-08-2012, 11:20 AM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Korthac View Post
            Funny you mention that website, I have seen people searching other players with it and harass them IN GAME for it. What Valve is trying to avoid is already happening. To be honest that is why I think the thread is still open though, Valve HASN'T decided. There is still hope.
            .
            What valve is trying to avoid also happens without mentioning that site.
            People flame each others in-game scores, they flame how many wins you have.

            Conclusion:
            Not having stats doesn't prevent flaming in any way. The community is as outrageous as the HoN community, which has stats and still works fine.

            Originally posted by PuppetPeople View Post
            Lets be honest right now if you are a solo player theres literally no reason to perform on any decent level and not going for mek antimage cause w/l affect nothing beside "invisible mmr" and meaningless wl% why meaningless? cause everyone is between 48-55% due to weird mm :0
            Solo mm works fine.
            Stats gained from solo mm in HoN also work fine.

            Originally posted by pcnx View Post
            If you take away the website, they will check your profile out and then complain that you only have xxx wins.
            they already do
            Last edited by ranaki; 07-08-2012, 01:10 PM.
            Never underestimate the power of the masses.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ranaki View Post
              Conclusion:
              Not having stats doesn't prevent flaming in any way. The community is as outrageous as the HoN community, which has stats and still works fine.
              And now we can finally close this thread, for a conclusion has been reached XD. Please Add Statistics, it will make this game that much BETTER.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Korthac View Post
                And now we can finally close this thread, for a conclusion has been reached XD. Please Add Statistics, it will make this game that much BETTER.
                Well yeah. The game is then at least more fun to play over a longer period of time.
                From what I know games make more money if the customers are staying longer.

                Not having stats won't keep the players that want to become better for very long.
                Sure it might be fine for the part of the community that easily gets butthurt and just plays the game for fun, but for "hard-core" players it's bullcrap to not have stats. Why invest a lot of time then for nothing?
                Last edited by ranaki; 07-08-2012, 01:28 PM.
                Never underestimate the power of the masses.

                Comment


                • Add statistics PLEASE.

                  Comment


                  • No we actually gave arguments for everything you said, you just fail to read them.

                    I am willing to post it again (fifth time).

                    Individual (private) stats will harm the community as players will play for stats, denying that people won't is bullshit.

                    You do not learn anything from the numbers of the stats you want. As they are empty. I keep finding it funny how you think you get better by watching your average KDR and ward count. And then think "huh guess I need to die less and kill more". Absolutely pathetic if that's your argument. If you would admit that it's just for your peen and as something to fall back on when things go bad I at least would have respect. What I mean by this is that you are playing absolutely crap but you can say to your teammates, who are probably mad, "look at my KDR it's 1.10".

                    Seriously if there's one not reading then it's you proponents. You really think you learn to die less and kill more by watching at those numbers? Do you realize then you aren't performing well? Isn't your intention EVERY fucking game to just die the least amounts of time? Same goes for gpm or whatever else the horrible stats HoN provides.

                    I can honestly tell that you guys won't get better when you rely on your stats to get better.

                    Do you learn anything from positioning and the feeling of when to initiate by looking at those numbers? Quit embarrassing yourselves and find some real arguments.

                    And don't forget the bullshit about the community is already awful. So because it's awful we just have to make it even worse? Do you give a guy who has killed 6 people and is out of ammo another 6 bullets? Holy shit, it's like talking to the pope about giving up his believes.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Korthac View Post
                      And now we can finally close this thread, for a conclusion has been reached XD. Please Add Statistics, it will make this game that much BETTER.
                      Ridicule previous statement.
                      Take opposite viewpoint.
                      Provide no qualifying statement for new viewpoint.

                      Repeat.

                      Comment


                      • There is an awful lot of theoretical mumbojumbo in this thread - and a lot of assumption (such as what happens in HoN will definitely happen in DotA as if they were the same community or used the same algorithms). My suggestion is to try out stats for a few weeks then revert back to what we have now. Then, gosh this may sound stunning, do a poll to ask the DotA users which is better to have.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Half-Minute Man View Post
                          Individual (private) stats will harm the community as players will play for stats, denying that people won't is bullshit.
                          Doesn't happen often that people play for stats.
                          They already play for having a good in-game score since you get flamed and get called a feeder if you die a lot anyway. There is no way to prohibe that people flame stats as long as there is a chat in the game. (now I dare you to not even get the idea to disable the chat in order to improve the community)

                          Private stats however are already available, and even IF they play for increasing them, they are doing a hell of a good job by winning games. The same way as in HoN.

                          Seeing people that play for stats in an intollerant manner in HoN is as usual as having a dumbass denying you mid for not having as many wins as you do.
                          It happens, but be honest to yourself, it's not even happening a quarter of your games.

                          Originally posted by Half-Minute Man View Post
                          You do not learn anything from the numbers of the stats you want. As they are empty. I keep finding it funny how you think you get better by watching your average KDR and ward count. And then think "huh guess I need to die less and kill more". Absolutely pathetic if that's your argument. If you would admit that it's just for your peen and as something to fall back on when things go bad I at least would have respect. What I mean by this is that you are playing absolutely crap but you can say to your teammates, who are probably mad, "look at my KDR it's 1.10".
                          Although I don't support fighting between teammates it is better to argue with actual statistics to back you up than having empty arguements like "i have more wins than you".

                          Anyway, that is not the point.
                          Now let us see how the downside is of not having stats:

                          - People will not know what their team is capable of. Since you have no idea what your teammates are like you have to rely on your luck, pick a carry like everyone else and hope that you get the best farm.
                          - You will never know if you actually improved or if it just seems so.
                          - It is not encouraging to play games only to gain cosmetics for most players (which are also only there to show off and encourage flaming, you want to disable them too?)
                          - Over a longer period of time players that play the game a lot and want to become competitive players will lose the interest because there is no way for them to show how good they are.
                          - If people will play the way they want and there is nothing to gain, games will and already turn out like "No Stats" games in HoN. An uncontrollable chaos, might be fun sometimes, not if you want to win.
                          - You will never know if MM actually balances people after their skill level, or Valve only says it does. Stats help players finding errors in the system.
                          - Without stats the game is less fun for "hardcore" players.
                          - You can't earn money from hard-core players anymore.
                          - Valve would ruin a money making oppertunity. You can only guess how much real statwhores pay in order to reset their stats just so they have an improvement of like 0.2 kd.

                          Originally posted by Half-Minute Man View Post
                          Seriously if there's one not reading then it's you proponents. You really think you learn to die less and kill more by watching at those numbers? Do you realize then you aren't performing well? Isn't your intention EVERY fucking game to just die the least amounts of time? Same goes for gpm or whatever else the horrible stats HoN provides.
                          Not at all. I have seen countless of people that have like 40% win but a kd of 3. Those are people who ruin the game and the reason why stats aren't in this game yet. But those people only make about 1% of the community. Why should the other 99% get punished by not having stats?
                          I rather have a KD of 0.5 and like 60 - 70% win just to show that i am capable of winning the way I play than having a high KD which is meaningless.

                          Also:
                          If you introduce stats you would have like to have them as detailed as possible.
                          That would mean:

                          Not only showing average KD and all other stats for all heroes together,
                          You would want to have detailed stats for every hero you ever played more than 5 - 10 games with.

                          The more detailed the stats are, the more effective and fair they are.

                          What many people that get harassed for having bad stats also have to do is just saying "ok, I'm not as good as you, but I am trying to improve"
                          Sentences like that often cause more productive teamplay and maybe even new gaming friends.

                          Originally posted by Half-Minute Man View Post
                          I can honestly tell that you guys won't get better when you rely on your stats to get better.
                          Worked in HoN for me.
                          When I came from dota to HoN i was a really bad player.
                          Then I became sort of a KD whore, which didn't bring me much further since I still was bad and failed to get a lot of kills so I tried focusing on just winning and improving my other stats.
                          In almost 3 years of HoN I have become a way better simply because I tried to "immitate" others that i thought were better than me. I compared the stats, I tried to improve the areas that lacked.

                          Having something to determine someones skill level is better than nothing at all.


                          Originally posted by Half-Minute Man View Post
                          Do you learn anything from positioning and the feeling of when to initiate by looking at those numbers? Quit embarrassing yourselves and find some real arguments.
                          A higher KD often tends that people know good positions.
                          Good positioning is something I am still working a lot on, since it get's me killed and is the reason for my lower KD:A.

                          Initiation is the same thing. A player that plays initiation heroes a lot and has a great KD:A knows how to initate.

                          Again:
                          More detailed stats give you a more detailed view on your own and others skills.

                          Originally posted by Half-Minute Man View Post
                          And don't forget the bullshit about the community is already awful. So because it's awful we just have to make it even worse? Do you give a guy who has killed 6 people and is out of ammo another 6 bullets? Holy shit, it's like talking to the pope about giving up his believes.
                          What I and others mean is probably that not having stats hasen't improved the community for shit and that it so far only has punished the people that want to have stats.

                          A guy who has killed 6 people and is out of ammo will find another way to kill people with if he still has the intention. Often that way is slower and more painful.
                          Compared to stats right now it is like:
                          People that flamed others stats don't have stats to flame with now, so what do they do? They flame your most heroes played and how many games you won. Which is far more annoying and it happens to me as often as someone flamed someones stats in HoN.
                          Is it dangerous for me? No it is not. I report them if they continue to harass me and intentionally let me die and so on. I don't get butthurt, go to the forum, and cry about removing the information about how many games I've won because it won't stop the bad guys.

                          The only reason why people still behave a bit is because they are afraid to lose their access to the closed beta.


                          The solution for all of dota2's problems is to censor everything.
                          Censor the stats
                          Censor the chat
                          Censor the wins
                          Censor the items

                          That is how you prevent bad guys from flaming. But it would ruin the game for all the others. And Valve has already started with the first point.

                          Also:
                          having visible stats would prevent a lot of people from leaving games.

                          Originally posted by vandal View Post
                          There is an awful lot of theoretical mumbojumbo in this thread - and a lot of assumption (such as what happens in HoN will definitely happen in DotA as if they were the same community or used the same algorithms). My suggestion is to try out stats for a few weeks then revert back to what we have now. Then, gosh this may sound stunning, do a poll to ask the DotA users which is better to have.
                          Since this game is in beta, why not try it out at least?
                          I'm sure the major part of the community would love it.

                          Considering that a lot of my friends left the game for example and went back to HoN since there aren't any stats and they don't really think it's a point to play dota2 just to gain nothing. At least those 11 guys will be back.
                          It's not like HoN is better than Dota2, It's just pointless to play it atm.
                          Last edited by ranaki; 07-08-2012, 03:12 PM.
                          Never underestimate the power of the masses.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ranaki View Post
                            Since this game is in beta, why not try it out at least?
                            I'm sure the major part of the community would love it.

                            Considering that a lot of my friends left the game for example and went back to HoN since there aren't any stats and they don't really think it's a point to play dota2 just to gain nothing. At least those 11 guys will be back.
                            It's not like HoN is better than Dota2, It's just pointless to play it atm.
                            Did you read my post?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by vandal View Post
                              Did you read my post?
                              i did even quote your post as an reply that said that it was a good idea lol
                              Never underestimate the power of the masses.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Half-Minute Man View Post
                                No we actually gave arguments for everything you said, you just fail to read them.

                                I am willing to post it again (fifth time).

                                Individual (private) stats will harm the community as players will play for stats, denying that people won't is bullshit.

                                You do not learn anything from the numbers of the stats you want. As they are empty. I keep finding it funny how you think you get better by watching your average KDR and ward count. And then think "huh guess I need to die less and kill more". Absolutely pathetic if that's your argument. If you would admit that it's just for your peen and as something to fall back on when things go bad I at least would have respect. What I mean by this is that you are playing absolutely crap but you can say to your teammates, who are probably mad, "look at my KDR it's 1.10".

                                Seriously if there's one not reading then it's you proponents. You really think you learn to die less and kill more by watching at those numbers? Do you realize then you aren't performing well? Isn't your intention EVERY fucking game to just die the least amounts of time? Same goes for gpm or whatever else the horrible stats HoN provides.

                                I can honestly tell that you guys won't get better when you rely on your stats to get better.

                                Do you learn anything from positioning and the feeling of when to initiate by looking at those numbers? Quit embarrassing yourselves and find some real arguments.

                                And don't forget the bullshit about the community is already awful. So because it's awful we just have to make it even worse? Do you give a guy who has killed 6 people and is out of ammo another 6 bullets? Holy shit, it's like talking to the pope about giving up his believes.
                                Real arguments? So the stuff you are making up and claiming to be THE truth, is the only valid argument?

                                You need to understand, that perhaps you are wrong and therefore accept that people have a different opinion. Also you would probably want to avoid offending people by telling them to "stop embarrassing" them self. That kind of provocation wont get you anywhere.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X