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[SUGGESTION] "Beginner" queue, with limited hero pool

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  • [SUGGESTION] "Beginner" queue, with limited hero pool

    Dota is a difficult game to learn, mainly for 2 reasons:
    - General Knowledge (IE: map knowledge, item knowledge, etc)
    - Hero Knowledge (IE: what to expect from every hero, visual effects, etc)

    Every game you learn something more about General Knowledge, in a "static" way: the item pool, the neutral camps, the rune spots, etc are the same in every single game of Dota.

    What really raise the learning curve is that every game you'll play with and against different heroes. A lot of heroes have counter-intuitive abilities: abilities whose effects are too difficult or too subtle to guess just by seeing them on action.

    ------------------------------------------------------

    The idea is: let the player chose if he wants to be put in the "beginner" queue. If so, he will be matched with other "beginners" + "coaching" players only, with a limited hero pool...There he could learn the basics of the game in a controlled environement. The hero pool should include heroes that are both relatively easy to play and with a clear team role (IE: support, carry, pusher, etc).

    It won't be bad if we had a "beginner 2.0" or "intermediate" queue, with similar basis and an expanded hero pool too: more heroes with slightly more difficult abilities/roles.

    This way a beginner could learn what a lot of heroes do without being overwhelmed by the whole thing at first.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    While more queues could be a bad thing in a beta, i think this could work with a bigger playerbase.

    The idea is obviously perfectible...what do you think?

  • #2
    generally i like this idea. at the moment its really enjoyable with the hero pool and hence the skill visauls rising from week to week, so you can easily adopt to new ones.

    there are some problems though: if you limit the hero pool, there will necessarily be overpowered heroes which cant be countered. additionally you limit the fun people can have at the start in my opinion. in my very first dota i just picked invoker cause i liked the picture of him. i had no clue whatsoever how his invoking worked and my mate laughed at me for picking the mosts complicated hero out of so many. but because of this i loved dota from the very beginning. every other dota was a new experience where you had to realize which hero could do what and which item had whcih effect. often i just died and wondered how the hell that happened again.

    i think there should be an indicator stating whether a hero is easy (aka skeleton king,, bounty hunter,..), intermediate or hard to play, maybe with easy ones blinking up in the selection tab, so people might get more atracted to these heroes. limitating the pool however is not necesarily good for newbies.

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    • #3
      Good idea imo. This could be combined with some minigames (jungle learning, lasthitting etc)

      Comment


      • #4
        what happens when a good player queues beginner...

        and rapes the shit out of everybody

        (how do you know who is a beginner?)
        FIX TEAM MATCHMAKING

        Comment


        • #5
          Require one or two games vs bots, require 5 placement matches vs other players, then use their performance in the placement matches to set up their initial placement in the matchmaking ranking. Just don't allow them back into the beginner queue after their five games.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by FunkyFunky View Post
            Require one or two games vs bots, require 5 placement matches vs other players, then use their performance in the placement matches to set up their initial placement in the matchmaking ranking. Just don't allow them back into the beginner queue after their five games.
            not bad, but what if after 5 matches they're still a beginner?
            FIX TEAM MATCHMAKING

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by FunkyFunky View Post
              Require one or two games vs bots
              Bots need to be better or there needs to be a co-op queue where you have 5 humans on one side and 5 bots on the other. Right now 1 human + 4 bots vs 5 bots completely depends on what you pick, with hard pushers having the easiest time winning while doing almost nothing resembling what you need to do to win a real game of DoTA (because real humans will constantly gank you if you solo push)

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              • #8
                There is already something like that but not with limited pool, that would be stupid.

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                • #9
                  go back to league of legends with your limited hero pool! We dont want that shit in dota 2!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sciaticjam View Post
                    go back to league of legends with your limited hero pool! We dont want that shit in dota 2!
                    i bet you're the type of player who flames the shit out of a first-timer and says go back to LoL
                    then you wonder "why do people play LoL, it's such a shitty game"

                    i think a beginner queue could be good,
                    it's not like you'd be removing THAT much from the playerbase, i'm sure that 90% of the community will not be first timers, and for the 10%, i think something to ease them into dota would be nice.

                    valve did mention that they were working on a lot of tutorial/coaching systems, and i'm sure that something like this could help too.
                    FIX TEAM MATCHMAKING

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sciaticjam View Post
                      go back to league of legends with your limited hero pool! We dont want that shit in dota 2!
                      I find this funny because League has a LARGE number of heroes.

                      Unless you meant limited in terms of their mechanics, in which I would fully agree with you.

                      Regardless, LoL is its own beast, it's made that clear and to lump it in with DOTA is just silly at this point.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MrSlipp View Post
                        I find this funny because League has a LARGE number of heroes.

                        Unless you meant limited in terms of their mechanics, in which I would fully agree with you.

                        Regardless, LoL is its own beast, it's made that clear and to lump it in with DOTA is just silly at this point.
                        By limited I mean for beginners in LoL! In the beginning you are limited only to free heroes for that week. When you reach level 30 you have about 7 heroes available! Thats limited enough for you? We dont need that shit in Dota 2 for beginners! This is why dota is better than lol and hon! You dont need to unlock heroes!

                        So dont come here and take shit ideas from hon/lol with limited hero shit for Dota 2 for beginners. Thats just unnecessary! We dont need that in Dota 2.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sciaticjam View Post
                          By limited I mean for beginners in LoL! In the beginning you are limited only to free heroes for that week. When you reach level 30 you have about 7 heroes available! Thats limited enough for you? We dont need that shit in Dota 2 for beginners! This is why dota is better than lol and hon! You dont need to unlock heroes!

                          So dont come here and take shit ideas from hon/lol with limited hero shit for Dota 2 for beginners. Thats just unnecessary! We dont need that in Dota 2.
                          please read the forum before posting
                          Last edited by hsdvo; 02-13-2012, 05:05 PM. Reason: profanity
                          FIX TEAM MATCHMAKING

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by hsdvo View Post
                            not bad, but what if after 5 matches they're still a beginner?
                            That's fine, they'll be pitted against other beginners. Got to start somewhere if you're new.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by hsdvo View Post
                              what happens when a good player queues beginner...

                              and rapes the shit out of everybody

                              (how do you know who is a beginner?)
                              I think you should have to play skill games in the beginning.

                              Maybe 20 games all random, and see how you do then you will be placed after being evaluated after your first 20 games.
                              Originally posted by Shibubu
                              Sure, it looks a bit silly, but this helmet makes more sense than ~50% of Furions cosmetics that are already in the game. And its not like he's wielding a wooden penis (one can easily make a penis shaped staff out of wooden branch and there are no arguments why it could not be done). The Acorn helmet is actually VERY fitting since it's natural shape is used. Also it is used for it's quality to withstand blows.
                              Wow, amazing insight.

                              Comment

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