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The leaver system creates perverse scenarios

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  • The leaver system creates perverse scenarios

    (This is based on my understanding of how the leaver system works based on hearsay, so forgive me if it's inaccurate)

    Consider the following game:

    -Enemy team has someone disconnect at champ select, who never reconnects. The early disconnect means they cannot receive a loss because they were playing at a disadvantage, but can still receive a win if they succeed despite the uneven odds.
    -10 minutes into the game someone on my team dies and ragequits since it's safe to do so. Two others see the quit message and decide they're going to quit too. Now it's 2v4. A couple minutes later it's 1v4. I can still receive a loss because the disconnects on my team happened 10-12 minutes into the game.

    I receive a loss and the enemy team receives a win. I didn't deserve the loss because I can't win a 1v4, and the enemy team didn't deserve the win.

    Once a game is safe to abandon it seems completely random whether anyone on either side is going to play the game to completion and wins and losses probably shouldn't be handed out.

    The way the system is set up it almost creates an incentive for more people to leave past the first. If someone on the other team never connects I might as well quit right away so I don't end up having my time wasted if my team decides to quit later. It's really, really annoying when you play 30+ minutes of a 4v5 and the game is somehow relatively even and then someone else randomly quits and the game shifts in the other direction.

    Potential Solutions:
    -The game shouldn't be safe to leave just because someone on the other team left.
    -Neither team should be able to receive a loss if someone disconnects early.
    -The game shouldn't record stats if more than one person leaves.

  • #2
    If you're stuck in a 4v1, then just leave. And if you only play to get more wins then just leave immediately after the abandon and get a new game. Abandons barely ever happen anyway, I don't see it as a big deal.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by TinFoil View Post
      If you're stuck in a 4v1, then just leave. And if you only play to get more wins then just leave immediately after the abandon and get a new game. Abandons barely ever happen anyway, I don't see it as a big deal.
      That doesn't actually address the problems I highlighted.

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      • #4
        The current system leaves very little room for abuse. Yours, on the other hand, does. A LOT.

        People can just farm wins and someone just leaves if he is going to lose so no team gets loss? there are rankings in this game, did you know? All ratings would get awfully inflated...

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        • #5
          In the current system, a party can exploit it. One account get all the losses, picks Crystal Maiden, solo to level 7 for aura, disconnects. One account has loss, 4 people are safe. They can then make their picking based on that. They matchmake on low priority and get a game(because you do get one). The party does that a couple of times until they reach a high mmr and low priority starts to be unplayable. So you have 4 people farming wins. The exploit here is to move 4 peoples mmr until they reach the "countered by meta-game" region. Not that much of an exploit, since the 5 players would probably reach their correct MMR with time, but that time window will be very different from people not exploring this.
          I'm sorry Valve, but the only way I know how to coach players is with tough love.

          We all play for fun, try hards are just WAY BETTER than you. Read this.

          dev.dota2.com is about development, if you want to QQ about your last match (trust me, matchmaking algorithm has nothing to do with it): Click here

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          • #6
            i think that after 2nd leave on the same team, it should be "no lose" for the rest...Leaver(1st one to leave) should get both abandon and a lose(may be even 2loses to make it worse for them).For the remainders, a vote system might be a good idea="We want to play the game" or "We don't want to play anymore"(for the team that has lower number of players than the other team).for 15more minutes it should be safe for that team to leave w/o getting abandon or lose.[it is like "lets try 5v4 may be we can do it"].Winning team always gets the win...(exception: if you are in a party with the leaver, you will get a lose.This is to stop any kind of abuse:"+we lost it, it's your turn to quit" "-OK" ... this will make you responsible for your party members actions too, just like a team huh?)
            i don't know if i made a mistake anywhere and sorry for half a wall-of-text....If you like my suggestions, i might open a thread will clearer rules and suggest it better and improved... Feel free to point out, loop holes ,possible exploits and solitions; just try to be productive than destructive...
            The truth about DotA and VALVe... Some VALVe employees loved to play DotA and created a team. With this team they participated in a tournament, but they lost horribly...

            "We lost??? No way.... WE ARE GONNA MAKE OUR OWN GAME SO WE CAN OWN!"

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            • #7
              If you lose, you should get a loss. Yes, even if you lose because three of your teammates left. That's the downside of playing online.

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              • #8
                The results of a match are still recorded, whether there are disconnects or not. If the one team has a disconnect, the leaver receives an abandon, and anyone can leave after the 5 minutes have passed. However, either side can still win or lose. Many people think safe to disconnect means the results are not recorded, therefore they leave the game. Unless all 5 people on the same team disconnect (in which case they receive a loss, and the other team a win), you still must destroy the throne to achieve victory.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tootboot View Post
                  (This is based on my understanding of how the leaver system works based on hearsay, so forgive me if it's inaccurate)
                  -Enemy team has someone disconnect at champ select, who never reconnects. The early disconnect means they cannot receive a loss because they were playing at a disadvantage, but can still receive a win if they succeed despite the uneven odds.
                  This was but is no longer the case. Currently a game that has a leaver before action starts doesn't count except as an abandoned game from the person who left.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by EricTams View Post
                    This was but is no longer the case. Currently a game that has a leaver before action starts doesn't count except as an abandoned game from the person who left.
                    Well, that pretty much settles it then.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by EricTams View Post
                      This was but is no longer the case. Currently a game that has a leaver before action starts doesn't count except as an abandoned game from the person who left.
                      Can we get a little more clarification on that, please?

                      I do know that there are the crucial points before the game starts and at 10 minutes. There was a post from a developer speaking about it but it is outdated now. Was that the only change to the system?

                      I wanna know because some games that have leaver before ten minutes and i am on the full team we can leave without worry of getting a loss? That happened before with me.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ValeN View Post
                        I wanna know because some games that have leaver before ten minutes and i am on the full team we can leave without worry of getting a loss? That happened before with me.
                        If you leave you get a loss, even it is "safe to leave" because someone on your team left because he is an idiot. Fact.

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