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Win/Loss/Abandon Feedback

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  • #16
    Originally posted by slowreflex View Post
    What your saying is not really true if it happens to everyone. If it happens to everyone it balances out. Those that play 5 man pre-made it's less likely for, but hopefully they'll get matched against other 5 man pre-mades.
    Hopefully? Matchmaking makes just matching any kind of game precedent if search lasts long enough, kinda like Halo: Reach's multiplayer. If the search lasts long enough, eventually the MM will say "Fuck it, let's group up the premade against 5 soloers". There's simply not enough 5 man premades trolling for stomps for the MM to match up, so eventually it reaches the conclusion I said before. It's akin to Reach's multiplayer (at least in the Big Team Battle playlist) in that the MM pits a team of soloers against a full house premade. Heh, I really should be posting this on the MM thread. But yeah if I'm being matched up with premades, my win-loss ratio will go down, again. Fuck having 118/131 win/loss.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bobbobberson View Post
      Matchmaking makes just matching any kind of game precedent if search lasts long enough, kinda like Halo: Reach's multiplayer. If the search lasts long enough, eventually the MM will say "Fuck it, let's group up the premade against 5 soloers". There's simply not enough 5 man premades trolling for stomps for the MM to match up, so eventually it reaches the conclusion I said before.
      Take into account that theres only 20k players online, if you only chose 1 region, thats like 4k per region, and not everyone of them are Looking For Games. Would you prefer 30min queue time?

      When the game gets released, there will be more playerbase, and Matchmaking can work better.
      ModDota | My GitHub Profile | My Project's Page

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      • #18
        Few points.

        1: I have read somewhere that if player leaves, and the game ends in less then 5 minutes, he will not get abandon. Is that true? It have happened, normal 5v5 game, it was like 55th minute, really late game with both teams having carry players full of items. Also consider some of the base raxes were destroyed already.

        A player will rage quit for whatever reason. His team is unable to defend others team push(they can't defend with only 4 players), and the other team destroys throne. This happensduring 3-4 minutes. Now the sole reason of the loss is the one rage quitter, and he does not even get abandon?




        2: At the moment player can prevent being marked as afk he moves his hero from time to time. It happened that one player went afk in 15th minute, and was idling at fountain until the game ended in 45th minute.

        His team was unable to kick him, because he always moved his hero so the automatic system did not recognize him as afker. So basically 1 player was able to ruin the game for his team, which was trying to continue playing but was simply unable to defende in mid/late game due to simple numbers 4v5. That player who ruined the game was not penalized at all.




        3: I still don't understand why team with leaver should get a loss, more even when they see msg "the game is free to leave". This implies you can leave without any consequence. 4 players should not be penalized(with loss) just because they had leaver in their team. I don't know if any of you have experience with www.dota-league.com but I would say it was quiet successful way how to play ranked games in Dota 1.

        This is how their system worked, regards leaver:
        Team A has a leaver on their side. The game goes on, no one is free to leave. If Team B wins the game, every player in Team B gets +1 win, the 4 players in Team A get 0. They don't get -1 for loss. If Team A wins the game, the 4 players in Team A get +1 for win, Team B gets -1 for loss.

        What this system manages to do are 2 different options for team with leaver.

        First option: they will stop defending and let already ruined game end as soon as possible. It does not worry them, because since they have leaver in team they will not get a loss. The other team would not wait/farm/camp fountain, they would just quickly push and earn a win. Kinda like concede/forfeit.

        Second option: if they feel they still have a chance, continue playing. They still can get +1 for win.

        tl:dr Loss will not count for team with leaver.

        In my opinion it was very good system, and the only issue was that some players may want to abuse it. Abuse was closely monitored and in case it happened, all involved players (the accounts which were made purely for reason to leave games, ALSO the account that was made as main account to get the 0 for loss were banned for like 6 months, or deleted, can't remember)
        Last edited by Nolf; 02-23-2012, 10:46 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by slowreflex View Post
          If you abandon a game, you will get a loss, even if you come back, finish the game, and win.
          This is retarded. Valve should change this.

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          • #20
            personally I would like to see something done better in regard to someone who dc's for more then 5 minutes but still returns and overall still helps win a game where if they had not returned their team would have lost or had a high chance of losing.

            While I still believe the player should be punished in one way or another I think giving a lose when it might have still been earned is too much.
            Last edited by DBX_5; 02-24-2012, 12:00 AM.
            CPU make and model: intel i7 4700MQ 2.4ghz
            GPU make and model: Nvidia Geforce 860M
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            Connection speed: 600KB/s || 100KB/s || 764MS

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            • #21
              I think 5 minutes issue should be more tolerate, especially to a "Party". I meant, if a player from a party (consists of at least 3 players) got disconnected, the time waiting for him to return should be lengthened.

              Furthermore, there should be a voting system (like how RGC works). Being more democratic doesn't hurt anyway. So in case if a player got disconnected, the others (in the same team) through judging can decide that player is "abandoning" or not. Voting should start after 5 minutes.

              This is retarded, I have tried not to be too offensive: If you abandon a game, you will get a loss, even if you come back, finish the game, and win. This logic is impossible to comprehend. I would rather not having the reconnect issue than bearing with this "logic"

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              • #22
                Current Abandon Logic

                If you are disconnected for more than 5 minutes cumulative you will get an Abandon. This includes multiple instances, like 3 times for 2 minutes each.]

                The time should be lowered to 3 min( 5 min is too much) and when the timer reach to 3:00 , a vote kick interface will start , so his teammates can know if he is really afk or he is avoiding afk detecton with 1 imperceptible click every 5 min. In the second case, the team could report the afk abuser.

                Current Win/Loss Logic

                If you abandon a game, you will get a loss, even if you come back, finish the game, and win.

                If there is a server crash (not just your system crashing) it won't count as a win or loss for anyone.

                If there is an abandon at the beginning of the game then the game will not count as a Win or Loss for either team. Still clarifying when the exact cutoff is.[/QUOTE]

                If you disconnect more than 5 min, you will get 1 loss and 1 abandoned and the server should exclude you from that game(making impossible reconnect in that same game)
                Last edited by ZabatieL; 02-24-2012, 02:52 AM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by HHHNNNGGG View Post
                  Furthermore, there should be a voting system (like how RGC works). Being more democratic doesn't hurt anyway. So in case if a player got disconnected, the others (in the same team) through judging can decide that player is "abandoning" or not. Voting should start after 5 minutes.
                  No idea what RGC is, but it would be nice to have an option of extending the abandonment time, particularly if the clock still runs while the game is paused.

                  In several games I've played a guy has D/Ced only to return about 10 seconds after the abandonment clock has run out.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Caddrel View Post
                    No idea what RGC is, but it would be nice to have an option of extending the abandonment time, particularly if the clock still runs while the game is paused.

                    In several games I've played a guy has D/Ced only to return about 10 seconds after the abandonment clock has run out.
                    Ranked Gaming Client AFAIK...

                    I just had experienced that, however I still continued the game 'cuz I was playing with my friends. That match turned out to be our team's amazing table-turning, despite our noob Traxex who only got a BoS, a Glove of Haste at min 25 and also feeded a Dominating to enemy Batrider in the first 8 minutes. He also pooled my Perservence (lol).

                    Beside, it should judge how long the player got disconnected over total time the player had played.
                    Last edited by HHHNNNGGG; 02-24-2012, 03:27 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by HHHNNNGGG View Post
                      I think 5 minutes issue should be more tolerate, especially to a "Party". I meant, if a player from a party (consists of at least 3 players) got disconnected, the time waiting for him to return should be lengthened.

                      Furthermore, there should be a voting system (like how RGC works). Being more democratic doesn't hurt anyway. So in case if a player got disconnected, the others (in the same team) through judging can decide that player is "abandoning" or not. Voting should start after 5 minutes.

                      This is retarded, I have tried not to be too offensive: If you abandon a game, you will get a loss, even if you come back, finish the game, and win. This logic is impossible to comprehend. I would rather not having the reconnect issue than bearing with this "logic"
                      I totally agree with this. A voting system will not hurt and I can't think of any way it can be abused. I created a thread for this suggestion: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=23611

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ValeN View Post
                        Also should add that if any player is booted from game, at any time, due to a server reset or any server side issue that caused someone not to be able to reconnect to the game, it won't be counted for any of the players in there.
                        Nope, got an abandon during the fix for server instability a few days ago.

                        If it's only preventing reconnecting the system still stuffs you with an abandon. Far as I've seen it only disallows games where the match servers went down.

                        ----------------

                        Anyways, seeing as how pausing pauses the abandon timer I'd like to be given some actual freaking information about WHY they disconnected. If some idiot running a WC3 server can get some basic info about why someone disconnected, I'd at least like a game built with this stuff in mind in the first place to give some basic info on why the guy left so I can judge whether I pause to give him time or not.

                        Right now, the system could easily tell people:

                        Disconnected.
                        Timeout.
                        Lost Connection.

                        And would be nice if it could tell them:
                        Crashed.

                        Nobody deserves an abandon if the game crashed and they were 10 seconds late rejoining and I'd be more than happy to pause for extended periods if I knew WHY they left.

                        One more thing, the timer keeps counting down while they're reconnecting back into the match. Changing it so the timer stops before they're fully in would be a boon for people sporting older CPUs (judging by the load times I've seen, that's a good 25% of participants).
                        Last edited by TVF; 02-24-2012, 06:06 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by TVF View Post
                          Nope, got an abandon during the fix for server instability a few days ago.

                          If it's only preventing reconnecting the system still stuffs you with an abandon. Far as I've seen it only disallows games where the match servers went down.

                          ----------------
                          Connection timeout thingy that a lot of people complain about is not a issue with their server, it is with you making a connection TO them. It's not like the server is preventing you from reconnecting. Well, it is. But not because it wants to.

                          In that case you cannot even try to reconnect as there is no game to come back to.

                          I have a quote from zoid to back up on this:

                          Originally posted by Zoid View Post
                          If you get this error, this indicates either the server crashed, or itself was disconnected from Steam and the lobby or matchmaking game no longer exists. You will not get an abandon in this case since it was an issue where the server or Steam restart resulted in the disconnect.

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                          • #28
                            It wasn't a timeout. The "reconnect" button was literally gone and find match did nothing. Ten minutes after it started it finally allowed reconnects (many people in chat were experiencing the issue too, so it wasn't an isolated issue with the hotfix).

                            So either they did something different for that patch or the system isn't working as it should.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Current Abandon Logic
                              I like it. The only problem now is that plenty of people are idling at the fountain and are moving their hero every minute, so the system won't count them as leavers. Something needs to be done for that.

                              Current Win/Loss Logic
                              People who leave after this point will not automatically get a loss like the first leaver but will get a win or a loss based on the outcome of the game.
                              Horrible! People who are leaving at that point shouldn't get a loss from the game, even if they lose. They doesn't deserve it at all. The winners however may get a win, because it's not as punishing, but it's not that necessary.


                              If there is a leaver before any action has occurred then wins/losses are not recorded. The exception to this is if the team with the leaver manages to win 4v5 then the game will still count (this doesn't happen very often and when it does those guys deserve the win).
                              Oh wow, that's bad. First of all, the system should tell you more what's going on. It's impossible to tell what counts as a loss or not for a new player. More messages please in the chat!

                              Secondly. it shouldn't matter how the teams are. 4vs5, 3vs1, etc etc. If someone leaves before it starts, then no one deserves a win/loss. Everyone should just be able to leave safely and search for a new game.

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                              • #30
                                Here's a link with my suggestion (see my replies):
                                http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...l=1#post134403

                                What I was talking about:

                                (About adding an "abandon" or not...)
                                There might be a sollution! Something like a hidden process (like duplicating the "svchost" processes' name, since there are a lot of them and if you kill the wrong one, you get your pc shut down ) which comunicates with steam and determines if the computer still has access to internet (for those who attempt to leave) or if the pc has been shut down/crashed (by creating some hidden log which detects what happened?)

                                What do you think???

                                ......
                                ......
                                ......sometimes (quite a few), unexpected (and totally unpredictable) events tend to happen.
                                About ripping the modem: "it" should work, since I suggested having the process record what's happening with the pc in the meantime while reporting what happened when connection is re-made. Still, there is the problem in the event of a power failure: how do you know if someone had his pc powered off (due to failure) or if he manually turned off the computer, although I don't know if it's possible to detect the press of the "power off" or the "restart" buttons. Let's see what turns up...
                                ◄►[Suggestion] A useful set of ideas for a Better Dota 2 experience ◄►
                                ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
                                A few possible sollutions for graphical/game problems

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