Win/Loss/Abandon Feedback

[slowreflex]

To prevent the future creation of lots of duplicate threads about the Win/Loss/Abandon logic, I'm creating this sticky. Put all of your feedback around those topics in this thread only.

Current Abandon Logic

If you are disconnected for more than 5 minutes cumulative, you will get an Abandon. This includes multiple instances, like 3 times for 2 minutes each.

If you're inactive for some time, you will get an Abandon.

There will be a notification at the time when an Abandon is issued. This means all other players can leave the game without receiving an Abandon. However the game is still rated as a Win or Loss for all of them depending on the outcome.

If the abandon is issued before any action (e.g. a kill) has happened in the game. An Early Abandon will be issued. In that case the game will not count as a Win or Loss for the other players.

There will be a notification "player <name> has abandoned the game. the game is safe to leave." at the time when an Abandon is issued.
In the case of an Early Abandon the notification will read "player <name> has abandoned the game. the game is safe to leave. No stats will be recorded.".


Inactive Logic

If you do not participate in a game, you will get an Abandon. That abandon will be either an Early Abandon or a regular abandon depending on the Abandon rules above.

Not participating in a game includes, but is not necessarily limited to:

• Not picking your hero and entering the game for more than 1:30 minutes
• Not participating in any combats, farming, defending, etc for more than 6 minutes. Mining with Techies does not count, meaning you will get an abandon for planting mines for 6 minutes (this is true for all base-spam abilities such as Ice Blast or Rocket Flare)
• Not getting XP for more than 6 minutes

Current Win/Loss Logic

If you abandon a game, you will get a Loss and an Abandon, even if you come back, finish the game and win.

Safe to Leave games can be left by the rest of the players without receiving an Abandon, the game is still rated as a Win or Loss nevertheless.

If an Early Abandon is issued, the game will not count as a Win or Loss for either team.

If there is a server crash (not just your system crashing) it won't count as a Win or Loss for anyone.

Note: all games will still be listed in your game history as win or loss (or abandon in case you abandoned it yourself).

Here are the rules for what happens when there is a leaver in a game:

Games with the wrong number of players at start never count - not really a problem any more but used to happen occasionally.

If there is a leaver before any action has occurred then wins/losses are not recorded. There used to be an exception if the team with the leaver manages to win 4v5 but that unfairly punished the team without the leaver.

If there is a leaver later in the game then wins and losses will be awarded appropriately (the leaver always loses). People can leave if they don't want to play 4v5 and they will not get an abandon point. People who leave after this point will not automatically get a loss like the first leaver but will get a win or a loss based on the outcome of the game.

Let me know if you have a MatchId where this isn't the case and I'll take a look.

If you have feedback towards the Report System or the way Low Priority Queue is issued, post in the Commend/Report/Ban Feedback thread.

If you have the MatchID for any games where you received an abandon from a bug then please PM them to me.

Do the following and send this info with the MatchID:
- Make sure you haven't shared your password with someone else.
- Watch the whole replay - Note disconnects for any players and what happens with the abandonment countdown.
- Note any time where players went idle and the duration of that idle.
- Check your previous game and see if the Abandon was from that game instead.

[ValeN]

Also should add that if any player is booted from game, at any time, due to a server reset or any server side issue that caused someone not to be able to reconnect to the game, it won't be counted for any of the players in there. Keep in mind that server side issue and ISP issue, while it may seem similar in practice, are not the same thing.

Eric had a recent post somewhere saying that they updated the system. Since slowreflex explanation doesn't agree with the old quote from eric you should add this one too.

This was but is no longer the case. Currently a game that has a leaver before action starts doesn't count except as an abandoned game from the person who left.

We only need to know if "action" means before game starts or before ten minutes.

I did have a case where someone disconnected at champ select but only abandoned after 5 minutes boot. Didn't count for anyone even though we had won with a man down. Game ID was 6003288.

[slogga]

Current Abandon Logic

If you are disconnected for more than 5 minutes cumulative you will get an Abandon. This includes multiple instances, like 3 times for 2 minutes each.

Is this seriously how it works? This is pants-off retarded.

[AceOfJokers]

Well I guess I'll kick start the discussion in this thread with a major pet peeve of mine at the moment.

Currently I feel the community is being far, far too vindictive towards people that disconnect from games.

This point is purely directed towards people who have connection issues, or hardware problems that cause crashes every now and then, usually long enough to prevent them from reconnecting to games within the five minute window. I feel that the "punishment" towards people that disconnect for more than five minutes, but still manage to return to and finish the game to be excessive. These are not toxic members of the community, these are not people who are deliberately trying to ruin games, these are most likely just genuine players like you or I and I am sick to death of seeing people try to extradite them from the community because they don't have perfect systems.

As far as I'm concerned if, in the formulae that determines whether or not you've reached the threshold to be placed in the low-priority pool, a regular abandon is worth 10 points of negative karma, a disconnect followed subsequently by a player returning and finishing the game should be worth something along the lines of 2 points of negative karma.

This is not abusable, since those that want to abandon games due to frustration won't be hanging around the finish the game anyway.

And to those who suggest that people should just "fix" the problem, as though for some reason the people in this situation don't want to, not everyone has a money tree growing out of their kitchen sink, we're talking about people on student budgets or people who simply have enough financial problems already and don't deserve to have a joy in their life, such as Dota, shit on their face because they can't afford infalliable systems.

[Sindree]

And to those who suggest that people should just "fix" the problem, as though for some reason the people in this situation don't want to, not everyone has a money tree growing out of their kitchen sink, we're talking about people on student budgets or people who simply have enough financial problems already and don't deserve to have a joy in their life, such as Dota, shit on their face because they can't afford infalliable systems.

In many cases the "fix" does not cost anything, its just a question on how much time your willing to spend learning enough to actually fix it. When i got my betakey i had an old and trashy computer that kept getting overheated / crashed / was unstable. After realising i had a problem with my current setup, i spent much time on figureing how to solve the issues (in my case this involved changing dota2 to really low quality, reducing cpu clockspeed and forcing gpu to underperform to avoid overheating, additionally i found a fan i could place to blow into computer to keep it at a stable temperature). It did not cost me anything and it fixed the issue.

Saying that "I SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO PLAY IN HIGH PRIORITY QUEUE ON A COMPUTER THAT DROPS EVERY 2nd GAME, BECAUSE IM NOT LEAVING ON PURPOSE!!!1" ruins the point of having 2 seperate queues as the high priority will be full of leavers too.

[ValeN]

This is not abusable, since those that want to abandon games due to frustration won't be hanging around the finish the game anyway.

Yes it is.

You can disconnect, wait 5 minutes and return. Now you can stay AFK all game because you were already flagged but will receive only 2 points of karma instead of 10.

Now if you make them be flagged again the people who had legitimate issues and had to drop again will be as punished as the abusers.

If you had to leave a game, no matter what reason, the other players suffered for it and you should be treated the same regardless. People will try to emulate any method of lessening the punitive measures and in most cases will be succesful.

[HelplessKid]

So the only thing that influences if a game counts or not is if there is a leaver before there was any action or not ? That seems pretty weird to me :S I mean common if someone leaves after he gave away firstblood at 2 mins und you have to play 4v5 starting from 7 mins thats pretty dumb in my eyes.

So even a game that only lasted 4:52 gave me a win because our Weaver got two kills.
Match ID: 3925755

[Sinzer]

If there is a leaver before any action has occurred then wins/losses are not recorded. The exception to this is if the team with the leaver manages to win 4v5 then the game will still count (this doesn't happen very often and when it does those guys deserve the win).

This seems to be abusable or pointless. If it is F2P, then I can see some losers making accounts just to do this.

Also, what happens when 1 person leaves at start, then 1 person from the other team leaves and players continue? As soon as another drops are there stats or not? Surely there should be no exceptions. Either you are forced to play on, like in other MOBA games, or there are no stats at all.

I wouldn't want to have a leaver on the other side, then drop because I think there are no stats recorded, then stats are recorded, because the other players decided to carry on and the other side wins? No one likes really playing 4v5, why not just remove all stat recording if someone drops before creeps are spawned?

[slowreflex]

This seems to be abusable or pointless. If it is F2P, then I can see some losers making accounts just to do this.

Also, what happens when 1 person leaves at start, then 1 person from the other team leaves and players continue? As soon as another drops are there stats or not? Surely there should be no exceptions. Either you are forced to play on, like in other MOBA games, or there are no stats at all.

I wouldn't want to have a leaver on the other side, then drop because I think there are no stats recorded, then stats are recorded, because the other players decided to carry on and the other side wins? No one likes really playing 4v5, why not just remove all stat recording if someone drops before creeps are spawned?

I do agree that people get a bit confused when there's a leave on the opposite team. A lot of times I've seen someone on one team leave, it says it's safe to leave, and then people on the complete team start leaving thinking the game won't count. The safe to leave message needs to say what the implications of leaving are at that point.

[Noya]

I'm having reconnecting problems since the first day I recieved my beta key, I have 6 abandons because the game doesnt let me reconnect if my ISP changes my IP.

I think it if different if someone just presses "Leave Game" and never try to reconnect, than being disconnected, trying to reconnect and being unable to do so ( in the console the game keeps Retrying to connect )

These threads about the problem:

http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=11277
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=13845
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=11454

are not solved yet or have any official response.

[slowreflex]

I'm having reconnecting problems since the first day I recieved my beta key, I have 6 abandons because the game doesnt let me reconnect if my ISP changes my IP.

Isn't your solution to not restart your modem so it holds your IP? Also, a lot of ISP's have a static IP option. Have you asked them? I'm not saying that your issue will never be fixed, but maybe that will help in the short-term.

[Noya]

Im my country, internet for homes is only avaliable by Dinamic-IP, and my ISP (theres only one :P) renew IPs every 12 hours. Can't change it, sadly. I usually restart my modem before playing, because that way I know I wont be disconnected by IP renew, but sometimes I forget and it coincides with the time my IP must change

I also play with over 300ms to the best server I can get (US East), but thats another problem. Third World problems

[LulaLula]

If you are disconnected for more than 5 minutes cumulative you will get an Abandon. This includes multiple instances, like 3 times for 2 minutes each.

The 2nd parafrag is a bay way to put it, because it always happens that u might lose internet connection or something happens and u get disced, and this cumulative istances being added makes no sence, u get punished for something that u don't want to happen..

[bobbobberson]

I think the whole Win/Loss/Abandon system is shit. Losing from other people abandoning will always result in a negative win/loss, leading to lower ranking, leading to being teamed with more noobs, leading to more lower ranking, leading to rank hell. And getting wins is getting too hard with the shitty matchmaking, but that's a point for the MM thread.

[slowreflex]

I think the whole Win/Loss/Abandon system is shit. Losing from other people abandoning will always result in a negative win/loss, leading to lower ranking, leading to being teamed with more noobs, leading to more lower ranking, leading to rank hell. And getting wins is getting too hard with the shitty matchmaking, but that's a point for the MM thread.

What your saying is not really true if it happens to everyone. If it happens to everyone it balances out. Those that play 5 man pre-made it's less likely for, but hopefully they'll get matched against other 5 man pre-mades.