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Commend/Report/Low Priority/Mute Feedback

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  • O.M.E.G.A
    Match ID: 4123783569
    Incredibly toxic AA (Cpt Buzzkill) who flamed teammates non-stop on all-chat. He also fed couriers and himself to the enemy team, and planted wards by fountain. He's clearly using a smurf account and even stated that he doesn't care about being reported since he can just create a new account. The following is copy-pasted from the post-game chat:

    Cpt Buzzkill: (Console): Report submitted: Thank you for helping to improve the Dota 2 community.
    Cpt Buzzkill: pa
    Cpt Buzzkill: (Console): Report submitted: Thank you for helping to improve the Dota 2 community.
    Absinth|Kill3r: good luck in low priority AA
    Cpt Buzzkill: tinker
    déjà: report him
    Cpt Buzzkill: i dont do lp
    (Console): Report submitted: Thank you for helping to improve the Dota 2 community.
    Cpt Buzzkill: ill just make another smurf if i get it
    déjà: it wont be hard for the automated system to see the amount of deaths and that they were all to tower on mid
    Cpt Buzzkill: indeed
    Cpt Buzzkill: takes 20 sec to make yet antoerh account
    Cpt Buzzkill: and get 2 fresh reports to use each time too
    Cpt Buzzkill: win win
    Absinth|Kill3r: good for you AA... go create more smurfs and waste your time, glad to know you're part of the toxic community that wishes they were good players but will never actually improve
    déjà: ^^^
    Cpt Buzzkill: wtf would i care
    déjà: feeding because they have to convince themselves that the only reason they lose is because they are feeding and not because their attitude is abysmal
    Cpt Buzzkill: until fuckwits like u stop isnta selecting mid and expecting someone to solo support nothing will change
    Cpt Buzzkill: have fun in lp
    Last edited by O.M.E.G.A; 09-17-2018, 04:34 PM.

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  • O.M.E.G.A
    I have another simple idea to address toxicity. I like the recent addition of helpful tips that pop up whenever the game is paused. Why not add some tips that specify which actions are toxic? A list can also be included in the tutorial/learn tab perhaps. Actions like spamming "?", "EZ" or "Easiest game of my life" on all-chat have become so commonplace that players are genuinely becoming unaware that they are actually toxic. It would also be a good idea to remove the post-game chat function, or make it a team-chat only, since this is where a lot of players spam "EZ" or other such taunts. The overall trend should be minimizing all-chat capabilities, thus pushing players to focus on their own game and their team instead (just like in the good ol' days)

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  • O.M.E.G.A
    I've posted to this thread before (18-03-2018) and still have not seen any major improvement. The Dota 2 community, especially on the Australian server, is still incredibly toxic. Valve is really not addressing toxicity and almost seems to be encouraging it. Prime example: the all-chat wheel function. It was a huge mistake to give players all-chat wheel functions because it has essentially become a spamming tool to taunt/tilt opponents. With one button, a player can spam "Good game, well played" every time they kill you or your Pudge misses a hook. The additional all-chat wheel phrases from compendiums/battle passes just worsen the situation, so much so that even Liquid Kuroky has had to tell his teammates to mute the opposition. My suggestion would be to remove all-chat wheel phrases and keep the chat wheel strictly to team chat. Alternatively, if the all-chat wheel phrases really must stay, then put restrictions on them, e.g. you can only use an all-chat wheel phrase ONCE per game. This would really help reduce the flaming/hatred between the teams and go a long way to returning sportsmanship back to the game (remember the good ol' days when players only typed "GG" on all-chat when the game was actually over?)

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  • MoaM
    Please add a proper tutorial to the game about the laning phase so that players who have no idea about lane equilibrium, early-game item progression and rotations can learn about those things. Honestly, most players in any game do not want to cooperate with others. This needs to change. It has to be some-sort of element you want to do; why are support items not free? Is it the idea that DotA should be competitive? If so, then impart to new players that the game is meant to be competitive and tactical. Younger players especially don't want to buy wards or support and proceed to compete against their teammates for last hits in lane. They will also dive into enemy territory without vision and proceed to ping spam, type insults and get frustrated with their only level of play. I've observed this happen so many times that I don't understand why the devs won't correct the sheer inability of new players to learn essential skills in DotA 2. The report system only compounds upon new players being unable to learn the competitive skills needed to excel even in losing games.

    The report system essentially punishes any kind of in-game criticism. It doesn't matter how nice you are to people they will refuse to play even remotely well if they are told they are doing something badly. The report system and a lack of clear understanding of DotA 2 have created a community of experienced players that pride themselves on MMR rankings and win-loss ratios; just check any of the major discussion chats in-game which constantly devolve to name-calling over rankings. These are the same people who will go in game and use your report system against players they just don't like. What's worse is that once a player finds themselves comfortable with DotA 2 they will refuse to accept any type of criticism about their play or refuse to acknowledge another player struggling or playing differently; and you can always report players who play badly or who respond to, or offer criticism. A new player who genuinely doesn't know how to find observer wards in the shop is the equivalent to an experienced player who feeds his hero down the middle lane because something in the game went wrong for them is the equivalent to another player whose style of play is unorthodox is the equivalent to a party of two who refuse to play as a team is the equivalent to an experienced player who convinces three others on the team to report one bad player... etc. etc.

    If you want DotA to be developed as a unique multiplayer game where players have the freedom to experiment than the report system should only be enforced with overt griefing (like feeding your hero down the middle lane, afking in lane, killing the courier on purpose, etc.), script abuse and actual chat spam that lasts more than 5-10 minutes. LP doesn't solve anything behaviour-wise. Low-priority matchmaking pool is just the same matchmaking-roulette of new and experienced players winning and losing matches. There's no oppurtunity to learn from mistakes in DotA 2 to begin with, so why force people to "win" a match five times if they are just going to play with the same behaviour and skill level as they were outside of Low-Priority? What is the point of a punishment pool if it has zero game-play differences from the non-punishment pool? What are the learning oppurtunities? What exactly is the 'punishment'? Playing with more players that grate your nerves? Even outside of Low Priority any player will constantly get matched with others who are completely new to the game, yet have a huge amount of hours in-game; they just play badly without learning or improving. These players report or get reported, justified or not.

    The report system and the majority of players lacking a clear understanding of how to play DotA 2 do not synergise.
    The system needs to actually dispose of griefers and any player who is frustrated to the point of griefing.
    I've been in LP games with genuinely skilled players; I've been in normal matches where players give legitimately good advice or analysis and are insulted or ignored.

    None of DotA's attempts at improving the community have actually helped new players learn DotA 2; 90% of my games involve new players choosing support heroes and refusing to ward for vision or use their skills players choosing core heroes and being too scared to engage with the enemy (they'll buy invisibility items or farm gold for 30+ minutes)...OR...flat-out "You Only Live Once" types who have zero patience and will fight constantly while blaming everyone but themselves for their deaths.

    The vast majority of this community doesn't understand how to play DotA at a basic level. The experienced voices on reddit and other forums are a small percentage of the people who queue up for this game worldwide. A marked improvement right now, other than spending the money to create an effective tutorial system, is stop marking players who provide actual in-game criticism (regardless of how 'nice' they give that advice) with bad behavior scores. In fact, just do away with behavior scores entirely; it just creates lopsided matchmaking and, more importantly, removes any opportunity for players to improve their behavior or for new players who have been wrongly reported as "bad" to learn the game.

    Thanks for your time, and if you engage with any ad-hominem after reading this or feel I'm typing our of some sort-of "anger", you are exactly the problem with this community I'm talking about!
    Last edited by MoaM; 04-27-2018, 01:50 PM.

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  • MainStreaM
    Ban Imminent Lift?

    I was having a bad time, and I got reported an average of 10 times, with 7 or 8 commends per conduct summary.

    However, I have had <3 reports and 10+ commends for over 4 conduct summaries in a row, when will I stop receiving the "Ban Imminent" warning?

    It's putting me in a bad mood every time I log in.

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  • Neptune
    The report system is completely broken. The only way player could be punished is losing mmr. Current "balance" gives no chance to outpicked team and people will waste their reports to the core or mid player no matter what.

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  • Ent-
    i was banned for 6 months despite i wasnt abusing abilities,(exept for few times when i had internet and electricity issues) or intentionally feeding for as long as i remembe, not even talking about boosting or something like that, i was barely ever talking or flaming anybody in text or voice chat either
    you can see my previous games here
    you can also see on opendota wordcloud that i wasnt talking too much
    i dont know if 6 months bans can be reverted but im just posting this here so you can see that this can be abused
    my steam profile
    Last edited by Ent-; 03-25-2018, 09:52 AM.

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  • Metheldaen
    The report and punishment system is currently completely broken. Since the punishment threshold was so extremely lowered I was put into low priority at least 3 times without reason. I have not been writing in chat at all in a long time, only using quick chat and pings to communicate, I did not play against my teammates in any way.

    I have "Mute all incoming chat" option turned on because I grew tired of overwhelming toxicity and constant threatening with reports, though I do not think a communist justice of punishing anyone only suspected of wrongdoing is the answer to this.... It happened on 2 different accounts and I did not even suck, the last game before most recent LP was a victory...

    When it was possible to report during a match it never happened and ironically I was receiving a lot of "We have taken an action against player you previously reported" messages after reporting toxic, unsportsmanlike players.
    Now I report an intentional feeder, or a Riki picker who afks whole game and nothing.

    Edit: By the way calling to report other players is extremely filthy and should be a bannable offense.
    Last edited by Metheldaen; 03-19-2018, 09:37 AM.

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  • xbon
    The allowed amount of reports per week is fine, as people get actioned on, you get your reports back. I play 30 matches in the span of 2-3 days, and always have a report available when i need it.

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  • O.M.E.G.A
    There seems to be a LOT of posts complaining about the reporting system already. So I’ll start off positively by mentioning what I like about it first:
    - Reports can only be made once you’ve finished the match. This reduces “rage reports” in the heat of the moment.
    - You get a conduct summary that displays how many reports you received in the last 25 games.
    - Multiple reports from parties count as a single report, thereby reducing ganging (not sure if this is still the case though)

    Unfortunately, those are the only positive points I can come up with. The biggest issue is that there is so little feedback. I’ve come across players who genuinely didn’t realise that their behaviour was toxic. Practices like spamming “GG WP” whenever a teammate dies, spamming “EZ” on all-chat or constantly pinging an ally have become so commonplace in Dota that players have started to forget that it is bad behaviour. So my suggestion for this would be to make it mandatory for a player to type out what the bad behaviour was when making a report. Then when the offending player receives three or more reports, he can see the explanation and matchID of each report. In fact, make this mandatory too: the offending player MUST read each report before being able to search for a match. This at least gives him a chance to change his behaviour before his report count gets too high.

    My next suggestion revolves around rewarding good behaviour, which the current system is sorely lacking. Players like myself that have never been toxic should receive bonuses like valid reports counting as two reports instead of one, higher thresholds before being sent to low priority, or fewer MMR points lost due to teammates rage quitting the match 5 minutes in, to name a few examples. Of course other factors would need to be considered before being eligible for these bonuses, such as the number of hours and matches played, to avoid abuse from smurf or bot accounts.

    Lastly, I feel that the current amount of reports we’re allowed to make per week is far too low. I play Dota every day and thus can easily fit 30 matches per week. So even if I had 10 reports available, that would still not be enough to cover all the toxic players I find on the Australian server. The server is particularly toxic because we regularly have players invading from Asia who don’t speak English but somehow know how to say “fuck u” and “nobs”

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  • IWantToHelpAsMuchAsIcan
    I wonder if anyone from Valve still reads any of these comments here, but from my experience after 7.0, ranked games became very unpleasant. I play this game since closed beta and back then when we didnt even had ranked games it wasnt as bad as it is nowadays. Reports became a tool to threat others for miss play, picking specific heroes, going to specific lane, buying different items than pro players do, missing last hits or even not paritcipating in to suicide tower diving action. The only good thing that is better nowadays is the fact that you cant report players during the match but only after it, so it sometimes reduce the amount of rage reports, but it's still far from being optimal.

    Another issue is that low priority or even long term bans do not solve anything as those who want to play can just buy new account + sim card and will still play ranked games, so current punishment system is indirect buff to all account boosters and account sellers. The more players gets banned the more accounts they gonna sell.

    Im not sure if i can offer perfect solution, but perhaps you should make some tutorial for new players showing how to mute toxic players and remove automated mute bans. As for griefing, i think that intentional feeding can be somehow detected by automated system (at least the most extreme cases). I would like to see some 1-2 month test period without any low priority games at all. I think that those who grief will simply lose more games than those who play seriously every game and even if they ruin some games, those players will most likely never meet again, because the ones who play seriously will simply win more matches and thus the differnce in mmr between the two will become big enough where matchmaking will never put them again in the same match.

    I would also love to see some kind of premium option where players who pay monthly fee of "X" will have their reports review by a human and not automated system. Such option could also be paired with some kind of punishment for rage reporting. This would greatly reduce amount of false punishment and rage reporting if players knew that there's a chance that real human will review those reports instead of automated system.

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  • Asschen-Sukar
    First of all, I agree wholeheartedly with OperativeX's analysis of the current reporting system (01-01-2018). It feels mostly like it's there for players to express their anger/disappointment towards another player. Any time I report someone - that is to say, for a legitimate reason - I don't feel it means anything, because I know I'm just adding to a pile that may or may not be big enough, for whatever reasons the other contributors to that pile had. But reporting someone still feels meaningless. And that's really my biggest complaint about the system: it either doesn't work, you don't know if it has an effect, it only serves to create a feeling of revenge, or it's abused. *Maybe* it works, but I can't see that, and it doesn't prevent me from getting rage reported by the carries in two consecutive games "cos bad sup". That just makes me feel resentful towards the devs, which is definitely not conducive for my game experience.
    In conclusion: you can't trust the community to police itself, and the reporting system feels like it disproportionately rewards abuse, while the alleged advantages remain elusive. OperativeX's analysis already showed the reasons, so I'll just repeat the conclusion: dispense with the player-driven reporting system entirely.

    And then for another point - the reason why I came here in the first place - the (muting) punishment. The previously mentioned unsatisfied players rage reported me last night, resulting in a communications punishment, and even preventing me from reporting the flamers myself. I had received a status report that very evening, and I only had three reports at the time.
    First, it's ridiculous that the faster report takes such prevalence, if one assumes every player should be able to report another's toxic behavior. Being punished yourself does not mean another person can't be acting like a total jerk.
    Second, I did not receive any prompt about the punishment, causing me to waste my time on a game in which I wasn't able to communicate properly with my team - this obviously does not include flaming. Because I know the communications punishment severely hinders my ability to teamplay, I've declined playing Dota whenever I got one in the past. The point is, though, that I remember receiving a notification about a communications punishment before, somewhere. Now, I only found out in the picking phase, when it was already too late to turn back. It would be prudent to at least display a warning message when searching for a game, if one has a communications punishment. It's not like the punishment itself has any pedagogic or educational value - other than negative feedback to unwanted behavior - so you could at least give players the opportunity to refrain from wasting their time on a game burdened by it.
    Last edited by Asschen-Sukar; 02-26-2018, 02:49 PM.

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  • Spidous
    There is an idea. Since there is no way of telling the reason for an abandon. Atleast give a chance for players to atone for that by reconnecting and if the game is won, abandon should not be counted.
    I have had numerous occasions when i reconnect after abandon was given (because of internet drop or pc restart or any other emergency situation has occured) and won the game but i didn't get anything out of it. I guess Valve has already settled on the idea that if abandoned then just give additional gold to the other players. But again this is a chance to give unintentional abandons some resolution.

    But that may contradict with the already compansation for the team with absent player. There may be abuse where heroes are picked that doesnt require gold, player leaves but the hero is managed by the team while getting additional gold, then the player reconnects with enough xp to play and use spells which often is enough especially that now the other 4 players have more overall gold.

    Is this idea any viable?

    Another idea is to refocus the report system or extend ignoring players, and don't give a chance for a player that has behaved bad to play again with the same person that has ignored him.
    Or just extend the ignore system as to if there is a filter for matchfinding with ignored people, than add an option to reset that list of ignored users.
    This may refocus many of the reports that happen just for not enjoying a game with someone.
    In doing this people will not get reports by someone that just doesn't like their playstyle, because this is personal and should not effect players by not letting them play with others on the desired mode.
    Moreover since the best possible knowledge of wether one person deserves a report would be best gathered from all the team players, reports should only be counted if all 4 people report the fifth. And it should be counted as 1 report and not counted as 4, since is it per one game/ per one behaviour/ per one feed/ it would just make more sense in object oriented approach.
    Last edited by Spidous; 02-16-2018, 11:51 AM.

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  • Krivi
    When will you start punishing people for not pausing game while someone from their team is disconnected? And when will you change your automated system that sends people to low priority because their team doesn't know that Dota is a team game?

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  • DeLJaDe
    Can we just remove low priority for divine5 players? People just report and flame for a bad play or a failed gank, its very easy to get 8-9 reports in 25 games if you get a bad week and LP is extremelly infuriating when youre trying to climb the leaderboards

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