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[Suggestion] Co-op vs bots matches have punishment for leaving.

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  • [Suggestion] Co-op vs bots matches have punishment for leaving.

    I don't know if this has been suggested or not, or if this is even the correct section.

    I'm finding that just about every co-op vs bot game ends up being 3v5 because people just leave for no apparent reason. It's somewhat frustrating when you have to try and compensate, being down 2 players by having 3 solo lanes.

    I'm finding that some times I'll end up going 3-5 games in a row without the match actually ending.

    I understand that co-op vs bots isn't supposed to be a serious game mode, but it's difficult for new and experienced players alike to play a match through to the end.
    Earlier today I was playing a support WR and bought the courier. Before the creeps even spawned our Beastmaster decided to feed the courier and himself to the bots before disconnecting from the game. This sort of thing is going to make it extremely difficult for new players to learn anything.

    Solution: I don't want the same type of abandon penalty in this mode as the standard MM abandon penalty, because I know new players will get frustrated and leave games. That's a given. Perhaps a 1 hour abandon penalty where they are put into low priority to teach them that abandoning games is a bad practice, of course, give them an alert so they know why. Perhaps extend the abandon penalty for chronic adandons.
    Abandon 2 games in a row: add an hour to penalty
    Abandon 3 games in a row: add 2 hours to penalty
    Abandon 4 games in a row: add 4 hours to penalty

    This isn't a harsh punishment, but will prevent griefers from affecting every game when all you want to do is practice in a team environment.
    This ain't ova.

  • #2
    There definitely needs to be punishment for leaving these. Each and every game has several leavers in it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Don't think there should be any abandon penalty for co-op bot matches (no, I've never abandoned a game, bot or otherwise).

      What I think should happen is that, after the usual 5-minute reconnection timer, the lowest level bot at the time "vanishes", keeping it an even match.
      I've never played DotA. I don't care how things were done in DotA. This is Dota 2. This is what I care about.

      Comment


      • #4
        -1, the reason I join these matches is actually they have no leaver protection and if you are not 100% sure if you have time for a whole dota I prefer a bot match over not playing at all. Also bots are bad enough that you can easily win a 3v5 (you can mostly even leave lanes unattended if you want, they will take a lot of time to push it through)

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        • #5
          I've never played a co-op game, but would have assumed it still has abandons. I've not really looked into them either. So I assume they don't count as a W/L or affect MMR at all either? If they don't affect anything it's not as big of a deal, but still would be annoying to me. I like the suggestion someone else had of not being able to join a new game (of any sort) while one you were in is still happening. I think that would help things like this a lot (and abandons in general).
          Please read Common Discussions, Common Suggestions, Common Technical Issues, Common Bugs, and do a website search prior to making any new thread.
          Use the report () button to report flaming, illegal discussions, offensive content, excessive spam, trolling, advertising, or duplicate threads

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          • #6
            Originally posted by slowreflex View Post
            I've never played a co-op game, but would have assumed it still has abandons. I've not really looked into them either. So I assume they don't count as a W/L or affect MMR at all either? If they don't affect anything it's not as big of a deal, but still would be annoying to me. I like the suggestion someone else had of not being able to join a new game (of any sort) while one you were in is still happening. I think that would help things like this a lot (and abandons in general).
            Your assumptions are correct. It's rather frustrating for the newbies and gives them a really bad first impression to see multiple leavers in their first game.

            When more bots are added it'd be nice just to have the AI take over for the player (given that these are newbie co-op vs bot games this is frequently an improvement), but for now... not sure what should be done. Maybe just boot the player and replace them with an equally leveled / gold bot from the bot pool?

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            • #7
              Yeah, a bot taking over for a leaver could be good. Especially if it doesn't count against your stats. I like that solution better than punishing people for leaving a game that doesn't count.
              Please read Common Discussions, Common Suggestions, Common Technical Issues, Common Bugs, and do a website search prior to making any new thread.
              Use the report () button to report flaming, illegal discussions, offensive content, excessive spam, trolling, advertising, or duplicate threads

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              • #8
                Perhaps that is why they haven't implemented abandons and "ok to leave" timer in bot matches. What I mean is that sometime down the road they will include that feature (bot replacing human) into co-op vs bots matchmaking as a testing grounds before it gets implemented into regular match making.

                @slowreflex I don't so much see this as "punishment" but part of the learning process. 1 hour abandon penalty isn't harsh at all, it's really less than a slap on the wrist. It's when you start to abandon every game that it starts to become more punishment, and so it should. Nobody likes a leaver, even if it is a not so serious bot match. It's just annoying to get 20 minutes into a match and suddenly find yourself going into a fight 5 bots vs 1-2 humans before realizing that three guys are afk in fountain with green mini-map icons.
                This ain't ova.

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                • #9
                  I appreciate the people who want to learn the game versus bots. When I first started playing DotA1 I played against the AI for 2-3 months. I finally tried battle.net, and thought I would be ready. I got stomped. Bots will not prepare you for playing against humans (the bots are pretty good though, I'll give them that). If you are serious and want to play to get better, play against people. If you just want a casual game then that's what you've got, humans vs bots, you can't have casual and try to slap strict rules on it at the same time, it's not casual anymore.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FiNGERS View Post
                    I appreciate the people who want to learn the game versus bots. When I first started playing DotA1 I played against the AI for 2-3 months. I finally tried battle.net, and thought I would be ready. I got stomped. Bots will not prepare you for playing against humans (the bots are pretty good though, I'll give them that). If you are serious and want to play to get better, play against people. If you just want a casual game then that's what you've got, humans vs bots, you can't have casual and try to slap strict rules on it at the same time, it's not casual anymore.
                    Co-op matches are a good way for a totally new player to get the initial understanding of the game. So it's not about it being casual or not, it's about new players having their first games experience ruined because of leavers. And getting a bad example. I believe everytime you are playing with other people there should be some sort of rule so that one doesn't ruins the game for the others. It's totally different the environment of getting into a pratice lobby and fill it with bots and the co-op. I believe bot take over and the non-ability to join new games while the last one is running might be a good solution.
                    I'm sorry Valve, but the only way I know how to coach players is with tough love.

                    We all play for fun, try hards are just WAY BETTER than you. Read this.

                    dev.dota2.com is about development, if you want to QQ about your last match (trust me, matchmaking algorithm has nothing to do with it): Click here

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by squinte View Post
                      I don't know if this has been suggested or not, or if this is even the correct section.

                      I'm finding that just about every co-op vs bot game ends up being 3v5 because people just leave for no apparent reason. It's somewhat frustrating when you have to try and compensate, being down 2 players by having 3 solo lanes.

                      I'm finding that some times I'll end up going 3-5 games in a row without the match actually ending.

                      I understand that co-op vs bots isn't supposed to be a serious game mode, but it's difficult for new and experienced players alike to play a match through to the end.
                      Earlier today I was playing a support WR and bought the courier. Before the creeps even spawned our Beastmaster decided to feed the courier and himself to the bots before disconnecting from the game. This sort of thing is going to make it extremely difficult for new players to learn anything.

                      Solution: I don't want the same type of abandon penalty in this mode as the standard MM abandon penalty, because I know new players will get frustrated and leave games. That's a given. Perhaps a 1 hour abandon penalty where they are put into low priority to teach them that abandoning games is a bad practice, of course, give them an alert so they know why. Perhaps extend the abandon penalty for chronic adandons.
                      Abandon 2 games in a row: add an hour to penalty
                      Abandon 3 games in a row: add 2 hours to penalty
                      Abandon 4 games in a row: add 4 hours to penalty

                      This isn't a harsh punishment, but will prevent griefers from affecting every game when all you want to do is practice in a team environment.
                      I agree. I play a few co-op matches and I try to help new players but many just get angry after their first death and then rage. Some just repeatedly troll by feeding then leaving or trying to use their skills in a detrimental method. Some kind of low-priority punishment would suffice for co-op matches for the next hour so they stop ruining more games for others. I'm not saying they should get an abandon mark, but at least punish them for their behavior.
                      Having bots take over would be nice but it isn't a plausible solution unless the bot can actually control said character, and we dont have bot scripts for every hero.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        So, I just played my first co-op game last night and before the end of the game 3/5 of my team had left the game (game was even still). It was certainly frustrating. I like the earlier suggestion of replacing leavers with bots. Most of the bots are better than the people that leave anyway.
                        Please read Common Discussions, Common Suggestions, Common Technical Issues, Common Bugs, and do a website search prior to making any new thread.
                        Use the report () button to report flaming, illegal discussions, offensive content, excessive spam, trolling, advertising, or duplicate threads

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          ^Most of the bots aren't implemented. What would you want your invoker bot to do without a working AI? Autoattack?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Can you please unlock my thread? If anything, it's this thread that ought to be closed or moved since this subforum pertains to bugs in bots, which is clearly not the subject of the thread.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              doesnt matter if you play against bots tbh if you leave a co-op you STILL ruin the game of your 4 team mates! i never played co-op against bots just my opinion

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