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[Suggestion] Dota like online poker

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  • #46
    Originally posted by 100kV View Post
    This is actually not a bad idea... However does this mean all pro-players will suddenly get rich?
    With queues happening concurrently every moment, do you think the pros will have the time, energy and right friends online to join every single one of them?

    Also, what makes you think only the pros in international scenes will definitely win? There are many young startup teams too, and Im pretty sure some of the teams got their own drafting strategy to win a game. Its a good way for them to get exposure.

    If you dont feel confident, you can always not join. No one is forcing you.
    He's the hero this community deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt his identity, because he can take it, because he's not our hero. He's a silent buffer, a watchful nerfer. An IceFrog.

    My Speedtest Result

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    • #47
      I do not like this.

      This is turning something Fun into something to "work" on.

      There will be a new crowd of people who would be solely to play this game for money.

      For some, it will be fun, and for some others, it will not be.

      All and all, I doubt this OP's suggestion will be taken.

      -1 this.

      Comment


      • #48
        Simple solution would be to just take out the money aspect of this and in place put it for coins and now you can gamble all you want and nothing will be done about it even in the US. And then for big tournaments could be arranged for placer seats etc. for in person.

        Comment


        • #49
          My gambling definition is the definition used on planet Earth . I'm not sure from which planet you come from but

          Learn English
          Cambridge Definition
          to do something risky that might result in loss of money or failure, hoping to get money or achieve success
          1 - 2 - 3 - 4
          and these are only some , Nothing about influence. and usually the definitions cover both game of chances AND any uncertainty even if not a game of chance when real money is involved.

          And as I said before gambling effect in huge tournaments is less or even non existent
          • Participating in such an event is return in value by itself even if you don't win
          • You can't just say , hey I failed , let me try my luck again. please repeat that official tournament.
          • Your automatic tournaments are only about the money , who would notice the tournament you hosted back in 2013 after dota release when there was another 1000 other automatic ones running at the same week. (very similar to gambling addictions you could just host another tournament , another round of poker , another try at the slot machine).


          Your generalization is messed up too. I didn't say entrance fee is gambling. I would pay an entrance fee to participate in a talent show for example. There might be a prize money for the best show BUT my intention was to participate in the first place AND if I'm lucky I might win. see here there is still a return value even if I lose. Furthermore , a large sum of the money will help organize the show.

          And an event being huge doesn't necessarily qualify it to be a rightful thing. If you go by huge events , I go by facts.

          I do not like this.
          This is turning something Fun into something to "work" on.
          There will be a new crowd of people who would be solely to play this game for money.
          For some, it will be fun, and for some others, it will not be.
          All and all, I doubt this OP's suggestion will be taken.
          -1 this.
          Agree
          Support/Criticize

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          • #50
            I see that many people see problem with this idea, but missing the concept.

            EVEN if this is gambling... so what? Whole our life is a gambling. When you drive a car, you are gambling with your life. when you go to school, you gamble, you never know what's like to be tomorow. It's a matter of risk. Almost every aspect of your life is gambling. You just bet, what is best for you.

            If you don't like to gamble, then don't ;P

            What is fun in dota, that in contrast to for example roulette, you can influance on the result of the game. You just don't bet and watch how things are going. You are part of the game. And that is the thing about. In the first post i wrote, that I played with my friends one tournament and fnatic crushed us miserably. It was on our third match. To be honest, there were no entry fees (and if i could, i would pay to do this again) but whole this tournament, me and my friends were *extremly* excited about this tournament. It's really hard to describe the emotions which accompanied us. Even after that horrible lose we were very happy and now we can't wait to participate in something similar. Problem is, there are no opportunities for people like us.

            Comment


            • #51
              Awesome idea, but i think it would be better if the prizes would be in-game items instead of real money cause money generally comes with a lot of burocracy and it costs a lot to valve.

              Comment


              • #52
                @teuz

                I personally don't like gambling and I believe it is a bad thing. but that is off topic.

                I'm trying to prove that OP suggestion is gambling and since gambling is a sensitive issue to some people , some states , some towns or countries. IF implemented with real money in any way, should be isolated from the main dota 2 client available to everyone. You are free to use the other client available where it is legal and approved to enjoy Valve's Dota 2 Casino and lose your money as you wish to Gabe's pocket for Axe's Hats and Windrunner quivers.

                I rather pay Valve directly for the items they develop for premium price than gamble.
                Support/Criticize

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                • #53
                  great idea!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Nemozini View Post
                    @teuz

                    I personally don't like gambling and I believe it is a bad thing. but that is off topic.

                    I'm trying to prove that OP suggestion is gambling and since gambling is a sensitive issue to some people , some states , some towns or countries. IF implemented with real money in any way, should be isolated from the main dota 2 client available to everyone. You are free to use the other client available where it is legal and approved to enjoy Valve's Dota 2 Casino and lose your money as you wish to Gabe's pocket for Axe's Hats and Windrunner quivers.

                    I rather pay Valve directly for the items they develop for premium price than gamble.
                    So you agree with teuz on his concept but disagree with teuz on his concept together at the same time.

                    Well done.
                    He's the hero this community deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt his identity, because he can take it, because he's not our hero. He's a silent buffer, a watchful nerfer. An IceFrog.

                    My Speedtest Result

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      It is called freedom of choice. I don't like gambling but I don't want to enforce my believes on anyone and at the same time I don't want it to affect me.

                      If it is proven as not gambling then it would mix with normal operation of dota 2 and it would affect people who don't like gambling in the $$$ sense.
                      Support/Criticize

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Nemozini View Post
                        My gambling definition is the definition used on planet Earth. (This is your opinion.) I'm not sure from which planet you come from but

                        Learn English

                        1 - 2 - 3 - 4
                        and these are only some , Nothing about influence. and usually the definitions cover both game of chances AND any uncertainty even if not a game of chance when real money is involved. (This are the dictionary's opinion on the definition of the word.)

                        And as I said before gambling effect in huge tournaments is less or even non existent (SOURCE? This is your opinion.)
                        • Participating in such an event is return in value by itself even if you don't win (SOURCE? This is your opinion.)
                        • You can't just say , hey I failed , let me try my luck again. please repeat that official tournament. (This is your opinion.)
                        • Your automatic tournaments are only about the money , who would notice the tournament you hosted back in 2013 after dota release when there was another 1000 other automatic ones running at the same week. (very similar to gambling addictions you could just host another tournament , another round of poker , another try at the slot machine). (SOURCE? This is your opinion.)


                        Your generalization is messed up too. I didn't say entrance fee is gambling. I would pay an entrance fee to participate in a talent show for example. There might be a prize money for the best show BUT my intention was to participate in the first place AND if I'm lucky I might win. see here there is still a return value even if I lose. Furthermore , a large sum of the money will help organize the show. (This is your opinion as well.)

                        And an event being huge doesn't necessarily qualify it to be a rightful thing. If you go by huge events , I go by facts. (This is your opinion being justified as fact by your own opinions.)
                        You basically just shot yourself in the foot again. Based on your Cambridge dictionary definition: to do something risky that might result in loss of money or failure, hoping to get money or achieve success.

                        Ok, so that is the definition you wish to go by.

                        Then you go on to describe that huge tournaments are all about the glory and fame, which according to your very own definition, is "success".
                        And you further go on to say that: "who would notice the tournament you hosted back in 2013 when there was another 1000 other automatic ones", so now tournaments need to be noticed? By being noticed, its under "success" again.

                        "I would pay an entrance fee to participate in a talent show for example. There might be a prize money for the best show BUT my intention was to participate in the first place AND if I'm lucky I might win. see here there is still a return value even if I lose. Furthermore , a large sum of the money will help organize the show."
                        Wow, I have to highlight to you that THIS IS YOUR INTENTION and is LARGELY YOUR OWN OPINION ON TOURNAMENTS.
                        The guy next to you? HIS INTENTION COULD BE TO WIN, and he tries to achieve that by doing his best. If you wore a tin-can to cosplay as Iron Man, you can be highly certain your tin-can is going to lose to his highly detailed Iron Man suit, for example.

                        Do you honestly think everyone thinks like you when joining a tournament?

                        Im basically trying to tell you that your interpretation of the definition of gambling is absurd. By your interpretation, taking an airplane flight from USA to France is gambling, stakes are successful trip or end of your life. Absolutes.
                        So is going to school, you are gambling that you reach school safely and you dont get hit by a bus, etc.

                        Lastly, "I go by facts." WHAT FACTS? SINCE WHEN IS YOUR INTERPRETATION OF A SYSTEM CONSIDERED A FACT?
                        YOUR INTENTION IS A FACT? YOUR OPINIONS ON THESE SYSTEMS ARE FACTS?
                        WHAT?!
                        Last edited by d.phoenixxx; 03-29-2012, 12:32 PM.
                        He's the hero this community deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt his identity, because he can take it, because he's not our hero. He's a silent buffer, a watchful nerfer. An IceFrog.

                        My Speedtest Result

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          so now tournaments need to be noticed? By being noticed, its under "success" again.
                          Never heard for sarcasm? Your tournament number 435 in week 30 in year 2013 won't be noticed. So my interpretation of the official definition is correct.

                          My intention is just one factor. You missed two bullet points. maybe there is more that I can't think of.

                          The fact (and as defined by the dictionaries) that anything with uncertainty where you bid real money on is gambling regardless of what the big events call it. I don't care about big events or flying an airplane , twisting the gambling definition to your liking won't prove your case. OP suggestion still falls under the dictionary definition and it involves bidding real money.

                          How would taking a plane to France be considered gambling. It is a service , you pay for something certain. which is that a service will be provided to you to travel to France. it is not like you ll pay 300$ for a trip , then go to the airport , hey dude , you didn't get the trip. go screw yourself and try again by paying 300$ maybe you will get it next time.
                          Support/Criticize

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                          • #58
                            Well thats not a new idea and there have been some systems that tried to implement similar idea. This just works if you have a totally awesome system and support by the game companies (so that they allow it). This could be totally multigame and sounds like an awesome diea for a start-up!

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Nemozini View Post
                              Never heard for sarcasm? Your tournament number 435 in week 30 in year 2013 won't be noticed. So my interpretation of the official definition is correct. (What makes you think it wont be noticed? MTGO has tournament queues everyday and results are often noticed and even compiled by game analysts. This is YOUR OPINION that is it wont be noticed by anyone.)

                              My intention is just one factor. You missed two bullet points. maybe there is more that I can't think of.

                              The fact (and as defined by the dictionaries) that anything with uncertainty where you bid real money on is gambling regardless of what the big events call it. I don't care about big events or flying an airplane , twisting the gambling definition to your liking won't prove your case. OP suggestion still falls under the dictionary definition and it involves bidding real money. (Since when is dictionary definitions a fact? Dictionaries are written based on peoples' opinion on what the words mean. They are interpretations of the word and should be categorised under opinions, so you fail on your first point already.)

                              How would taking a plane to France be considered gambling. It is a service , you pay for something certain. which is that a service will be provided to you to travel to France. it is not like you ll pay 300$ for a trip , then go to the airport , hey dude , you didn't get the trip. go screw yourself and try again by paying 300$ maybe you will get it next time. (I didnt say you were gambling that. Learn to comprehend english. I said you were gambling between a successful trip and the end of your life from a plane crash. I used this analogy because you were absurdly linking ESports tournaments that I highlighted with entry fees to be gambling, and again, this is also your own opinion. None of it is fact. By this very sentence of yours, I can say that the entry fee was for the tournament experience, the prize is a bonus. So that would totally exclude your employed definition of gambling too.)
                              In Red.

                              Also, you just went in a circle. You basically said that a tournament with an entry fee like a talent show is for the "experience" itself, while an automated Dota 2 tournament queue with an entry fee is "gambling".

                              Both have entry fees, both are tournaments, both have prizes, so you basically classified two similar events differently.
                              Whether it is automated or noticed by people does not exclude the fact that they are functionally the same and should be discussed as such.
                              Last edited by d.phoenixxx; 03-29-2012, 01:09 PM.
                              He's the hero this community deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt his identity, because he can take it, because he's not our hero. He's a silent buffer, a watchful nerfer. An IceFrog.

                              My Speedtest Result

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Oh just to add something:

                                The big problem with this is that you don't have access to the game itself. You are always dependent on the players to correctly report the games. WHat do you do if u have an amateur 5on5 dota game for lets say 5$. One team doesn't report the game. What do you do? You cant charge the players for that or take any legal actions or something else. You always need admins to look at replays etc. What do you do with disconnects etc?

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