Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules

  • No flaming or derogatory remarks, directly or through insinuation.
  • No discussion, sharing or referencing illegal software such as hacks, keygen, cracks and pirated software.
  • No offensive contents, including but not limited to, racism, gore or pornography.
  • No excessive spam/meme, i.e. copious one liners in a short period of time, typing with all caps or posting meme responses (text/image).
  • No trolling, including but not limited to, flame incitation, user provocation or false information distribution.
  • No link spamming or signature advertisements for content not specific to Dota 2.
  • No Dota 2 key requests, sell, trade etc.
  • You may not create multiple accounts for any purpose, including ban evasion, unless expressly permitted by a moderator.

  • Please search before posting. One thread per issue. Do not create another thread if there is an existing one already.
  • Before posting anything, make sure you check out all sticky threads (e.g., this). Do not create new threads about closed ones.
  • It is extremely important that you post in correct forum section.

  • Balance discussion only in Misc.
  • All art related (such as hero model) feedbacks go to Art Feedback Forum.
  • All matchmaking feedback should go here: Matchmaking Feedback
  • All report/low priority issues should go here: Commend/Report/Ban Feedback
  • No specific workshop item feedback. These should go to workshop page of that item.
  • When posting in non-bugs section (such as this), use [Bugs], [Discussion] or [Suggestion] prefix in your thread name.



In case you object some action by a moderator, please contact him directly through PM and explain your concerns politely. If you are still unable to resolve the issue, contact an administrator. Do not drag these issues in public.



All rules are meant to augment common sense, please use them when not conflicted with aforementioned policies.
See more
See less

[Suggestion] How to create a better dota 2 environment (chivalry points, leagues)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • [Suggestion] How to create a better dota 2 environment (chivalry points, leagues)

    Okey this will probably be a quite long post since I'm writing this after two completely ruined games. But don't worry I have some soothing music on so I should be fine. I will start with the currently flawed commend system continue with the report system and end up with the matchmaking system.

    THE COMMEND SYSTEM
    The commend system is a brilliant idea but currently it is easily abused and doesn’t do much to improve the environment for players. The things you can commend for are fine no need to improve that. However there are some problems such as commend swapping which could be easily solved

    How it currently works
    • All players can commend each other
    • Players can commend others for being friendly, forgiving, teaching or having good leadership
    • Max of 10 commendations (even if this isn't implemented fully)

    Flaws with the current system
    • Commend swaps which hollows the system
    • You can only commend a person one time in total (if you commend a player for being friendly at one time you can't commend for leadership later)
    • Limitations on number of commends

    Suggestion
    • You can only commend players which you have played at least one matchmaking game with
    • You can commend people you have in your friends list if you played a MM game with them (like it currently is)
    • No limitations on number of commends
    • More than one commendation submition per player (so that you first can commend him for being friendly and forgiving in one game and then two days later commend him for being teaching)

      Comment: this still keeps players from giving others more than 1 point in each of the commendation categories


    Justification
    Currently if you spend 1 or 2 minutes checking the chat you will easily find two or more people commend swapping. By limiting commendations to just players which you have actually played a matchmaking game with this will be eliminated. The reason it has to be a matchmaking game and not a lobby game is that it is still easily abusable. The only thing you have to do is create a lobby game, finish it fast and commend each other. Trust me people would go through that just to get commendations. No limitation on number of commendation is another no brainer. If I have enjoyed playing a game with someone I should be able to commend him even if I have played with 10 other friendly players before. To remove the limitiation on number of commendation submition towards a player is also a good thing because you might play more than one game with the same player and want to commend him for different things at different times.

    __________________________________________________

    THE REPORT SYSTEM

    How it currently works
    • 10 reports per player (although this isn't implemented yet)
    • Able to report for text, voice and ability abuse as well as intentional feeding
    • Option to fill in additional information


    Flaws with the current system
    The current system dosn't work properly in creating a good enviroment for players that behave and punish those who don't. One mayor problem with the current system is that you can only report a player once.
    • Too few options of abuses
    • Limit on amount of reports
    • Unable to report more than once
    • Hard to add timestamps
    • Many rage reports
    • All are free to report, even players who continually make bad reports
    • Lots of time is put in to look through reports and give fair punishments


    SUGGESTION

    Report submission
    • Add Game ruining as an report category
    • Save everything written in the report form (so that you can add things through out the whole game)
    • Unable players to send in the report before the game has ended (you will get a notification)
    • No limit on number of reports you can do towards a certain player (he might be abusive in more than one game)
    • Add examples to each category on what is okey to report for and what is not'
    • You shouldn't get matchmaked in the same team with people that you have an sent in a report against (and the report haven't been decided wether it was valid or not)
    • If a player


    Justification
    There is more ways to ruin a game than just intentional feeding, abusing abilities or harrass a player through text or voice chat. Adding an option to report for game ruining will cover most of the abuses like calling out team mates posistions (rosh, forest), refusing to co-operate with teammates, selling all items then leaving, buying all wards and place them in the base or even map pining abuses.

    Currently when you are writing a report your only option is to send it in right away. This will in many cases lead to rage and unfinished reports. If we set a limit to only be able to report after a game is finished we will decrease the number of bad reports. If we also add a function to save your current report you will be able to continually fill in the report against a player through out the whole game. This to make it easier to the people reading the reports so that we can have better effectiveness. To make this optimal you should get a notification at the end of the game saying something like "Would you like to send in your report against player a?". Another important thing is that matchmaking should not match you up with players that you have reported and the reports still haven't been read by a moderator (this happend to me today which is why I started writing this post). Two guys had a problem with me and started courier feeding in both as well as using abilities to ruin the game for the others. By adding examples to each category of valid reasons to report we can further reduce the work which a moderator has to go through.

    Chivalry points
    This is were it starts getting interesting. Gabe often talks about rewarding players that are helping other players having a good time while playing. By implementing Chivalry points we can take our first steps in the right direction. The basics of how it will work is listed below. In the report system it will work in a way that blocks people that continually do bad reports while awarding players who improve the gaming enviroment.
    • All players start with 10 chivalry points
    • To report someone you use 1 chivalry point
    • If the report was successfull you get your chivalry point back
    • If a report haven't been checked on for three weeks you get your chivalry point back
    • For every second commend you get an additional point in chivalry
    • If you have been abusive in a game and a successful report is done against you you will loose 5 chivalry points


    Punishment system
    • Replace the current punishment system with a penalty system
    • You recieve 1-4 penalties per violation, depending on the degree the violation was (text, voice abuse etc)
    • Penalties will be halfed every two weeks, in 4 weeks a quarter, and so on.
      Once any penalty drops below 1.0, it will be set to zero and is removed from your penalty counter. It will be deleted completely 6 month after you received it. (Directly taken from dotalicious penalty system)
    • If a player gets over a certain amount of penatlies, lets say 6, he will be put in the low priority (which will be replaced by the system below)
    • Remove "mute text or voice chat" as a punishment (it hinders the team play in a game and players can mute him if he is abusive again anyway)
      OR we could keep it and add a notification in the start of the game telling players if an ally is muted and give them the option to temporarily unmute.


    __________________________________________________

    THE LEAGUE SYSTEM
    This will aim at fair matchmaking and reward players who are giving other players a good gaming experience.

    The dungeon
    • Players with too many penalties have to play here while their penalties wears off
    • Replaces the low priority queue
    • You can't report players

      Option to make it less appealing:
      • No matchmaking (players is put in a team randomly)
      • No stats are being recorded from the games



    Beginners League
    • For the totally new players
    • You can have a mentor in these games


    Novice League
    • A minimum of 10 games won


    FILL WITH AS MANY LEAGUES AS IS FITTING.....
    Criterias which can be used
    • A minimum of x games won
    • A minumum of x games played
    • At least x% won games
    • Chivalry points


    Chivalry League
    • A league for the most skilled players with the most chivalry points
    • Moderators can handpick players which they think fit in the league
    • Players in the league can suggest other players


    I will give the league system some more though so feel free to suggest anything, if it's good I will add it to the OP. Lastly I would like to thank the two guys who ruined my games today for making me write this.
    Last edited by Konung; 05-09-2012, 08:48 AM.
    Healthbar & lasthitting
    Shop Layout - Legacy Shops
    Tooltip issues compilation
    How to create a better dota 2 environment

  • #2
    i am playing around 10 games per day with an ally of mine. what part of your system prevents me to swap commends with him in every of those games (unrelated of his ingame performance ofc)?
    Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

    Contributions i'd like to highlight:
    My Suggestion: Coaching System
    My Sticky: Intended Changes List
    My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by blash365 View Post
      i am playing around 10 games per day with an ally of mine. what part of your system prevents me to swap commends with him in every of those games (unrelated of his ingame performance ofc)?
      You can only commend another player once. I will update OP to make it more clear on that point!

      Or at least give him a point in each of the categories once.

      E: updated OP. Is it a bit clearer now?
      Last edited by Konung; 05-09-2012, 07:36 AM.
      Healthbar & lasthitting
      Shop Layout - Legacy Shops
      Tooltip issues compilation
      How to create a better dota 2 environment

      Comment


      • #4
        ok, you are excused.
        Make sure to read the Forum Rules as well as the stickied Threads of the Forum Section you are posting in.

        Contributions i'd like to highlight:
        My Suggestion: Coaching System
        My Sticky: Intended Changes List
        My Challenge: Completely Fixed Hero Challenge: Skywrath Mage

        Comment


        • #5
          Leagues sound awesome. Brilliant ideas you have there, but I have to disagree on "reporting takes 1 chivalry point but you get the point back if your report was successful". I really don't think that VALVe will be able to respond to EVERY SINGLE report that comes in, especially when DotA 2 is officially launched and hundreds of thousands of players (and a lot of reports too) will be swarming over the game. Lots of people know this, the fact that most games can't respond to EVERY SINGLE report and this might discourage players from reporting people in case their report is ignored and they don't get their point back. I'm going to bed now--probably won't reply for a good 9 hours or so. Just my two cents, and I await your reply about this issue.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Recountal View Post
            Leagues sound awesome. Brilliant ideas you have there, but I have to disagree on "reporting takes 1 chivalry point but you get the point back if your report was successful". I really don't think that VALVe will be able to respond to EVERY SINGLE report that comes in, especially when DotA 2 is officially launched and hundreds of thousands of players (and a lot of reports too) will be swarming over the game. Lots of people know this, the fact that most games can't respond to EVERY SINGLE report and this might discourage players from reporting people in case their report is ignored and they don't get their point back. I'm going to bed now--probably won't reply for a good 9 hours or so. Just my two cents, and I await your reply about this issue.
            A valid point you got there. But as you say yourself, with this kind of system people wont make a report unless they are sure that the player they are reporting made a violation. This will reduce the number of reports which are sent in by rage over a lost game. This will hopefully help the moderators alot so that they only have to focus on the valid reports. Since valve probably still will have a problem checking all the reports I suggest that if a report haven't been checked withing three weeks you get your chivalry point back. Sounds good?
            Healthbar & lasthitting
            Shop Layout - Legacy Shops
            Tooltip issues compilation
            How to create a better dota 2 environment

            Comment


            • #7
              very good idea ! +1

              But in my opinion, the % win ratio should not be part of the league system, because in a perfect working Matchmaking-System every player has 50% win-ratio

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Navil View Post
                very good idea ! +1

                But in my opinion, the % win ratio should not be part of the league system, because in a perfect working Matchmaking-System every player has 50% win-ratio
                You are probably right about that.
                Healthbar & lasthitting
                Shop Layout - Legacy Shops
                Tooltip issues compilation
                How to create a better dota 2 environment

                Comment


                • #9
                  You shouldn't get matchmaked in the same team with people that you have an sent in a report against (and the report haven't been decided wether it was valid or not)
                  Don't agree with this point. Letting players fiddle with matchmaking throught external means that are not gameplay related will cause trouble. So either a player is elegible for playing with everyone(in normal priority) or he is not.
                  I'm sorry Valve, but the only way I know how to coach players is with tough love.

                  We all play for fun, try hards are just WAY BETTER than you. Read this.

                  dev.dota2.com is about development, if you want to QQ about your last match (trust me, matchmaking algorithm has nothing to do with it): Click here

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I like it for the most part. Didn't see anything I didn't like, so +1.

                    Is the league system supposed to be similar to WC3's ladder system?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Woul really like to get some more feedback on this.
                      Healthbar & lasthitting
                      Shop Layout - Legacy Shops
                      Tooltip issues compilation
                      How to create a better dota 2 environment

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Guess I could give this a bump and see if people still find this intresting
                        Healthbar & lasthitting
                        Shop Layout - Legacy Shops
                        Tooltip issues compilation
                        How to create a better dota 2 environment

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It is a pitty that Valve doesn't promote or reward people that actually desire to improve the game and come up with good ideas. It is a pitty that so many of them are either forgotten and not further developed so that they could be implemented because of the majority of people that either avoid the "text walls", care to less for actual game experience and want more "wins wins wins wins" or have to little time to spare in between forum "soap operas" to actually make a readable post that either comes with good constructive criticism or new ideas on how to further the project.

                          I am sorry m8, it sounds like a good idea and I know that with further tweaks here and there it can become a very usefull tool but I doubt that Valve will implement it due to how they think and work. If there is no support for the idea it will simply be discarded and they will focus on other more "popular" ideas like how to make the Silencer more "visually atractive". I mean, God forbit if someone might confuse him with any other hero....
                          Last edited by Cordimix; 12-09-2012, 01:26 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You've got some interesting ideas here. I hope that at least some of it is taken into account.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I don't think your suggestions really fix any problems. Commends are currently useless, and people farm them. What do you think would happen if you need to be commended to enter leagues, look legitimate, and report people?
                              Why can't I commend other clans that we play a custom game against? Why only matchmaking? Why can't I commend a guy who takes me in to a custom to teach me? Matchmaking is where most of the swapping goes on. The commend system is quite useless.

                              Adding an "other" section to reports would fix the report problem better. I don't see what's wrong with reporting the same person multiple times in game or sending the report before the game ends. It's not like it sends an email, a report can be updated once it is sent.

                              Leagues would be the worst idea, what is the point in me playing support? I can't do anything to make us win if the carry is bad. In AR and SD, where most games seem to be won just by having a luckier team, having a league would be nonsense. It's not possible to judge the performance and skill of players just by the number of win/loss %. It too heavily favors good players who play carries.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X