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[Suggestion] Allow for custom In-House leagues.

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  • #46
    If matchmaking works effectively, it means players would be placed in games where their allies and opponents are of similar skill level. It would not be as good as in-house leagues for the reasons mentioned above, but an effective system would and should decrease the desire for them. If you want to play organized competitive matches, you will always have the option through the practice game interface. Doing anything otherwise would be just admitting defeat and forgoing progress.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Taff View Post
      The in-house leagues are created for this, playing professional games, where everybody knows his role, and what his supposed to do.
      Place where players are selected.
      Ever heard of party in dota2?

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      • #48
        ^ this +1 CvP

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        • #49
          Originally posted by CvP View Post
          Ever heard of party in dota2?
          Yes but this doesn't guarantee the team you'll be facing is a full party.

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          • #50
            it doesn't have to, it will match 5 players as closely as it can based on their skill level. Working as intended.

            Not to forget that they will most likely have a seperate pool for teams of 5 to only be matched against other teams of 5. Much like the 2v2/3v3/4v4 ladders of starcraft 2

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            • #51
              I think theres something lots of people need to realize, not everyone wants to play in the match making system some players will want to be able to play high skilled games where stats out side of match making may exist but do not matter or they may want to play causal games where skill isn't required but there are strict rules stopping anyone from ruining games consistently and regardless of how much valve tries to tweak match making it will never be able to provide what -everyone- wants.

              While I understand that player segregation is bad and it creates issues not only amongst the games own players but with with communities other then dota its self (aka other communities see dota genre players as being elitists regardless of skill) segregation is going to happen in one form or another, High skill players playing in private tournaments for money is a form of segregation, these small community leagues that are springing up are happening and will continue to be here in less valve does something about it.

              Basically what I am saying is players want more places to play at other then match making, valve sponsored in game tournaments and public games this demand is already here now and it will be here still when the game is finished and released to the public its going to happen one way or another and the best thing valve can do imo is to provide their assistance in making that part of the game and not force its player base to create 3rd party tools to make this possible.

              Theres already been discussion regarding making bots for dota2 channels and making replay parsers for the game its in valves best interest to be tightly involved within this development other wise you will see the issues that wc3 had with 3rd party application makers developing tools that abuse and ruin the game and it will just spiral out of control.
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              • #52
                Originally posted by CvP View Post
                Ever heard of party in dota2?
                So, what you're saying is i need to go out there watch replays how players play.
                And the ones i find pro i send them friend request saying "HEY YOU PRO ME PRO LETS PARRTYYYYY"
                I don't think soo..

                For what you're saying i need to have at least 40+ professional players in my friend list, so i can start a game whenever i want.


                Originally posted by sterls View Post
                ^ this +1 CvP
                No.

                Originally posted by DBX_5 View Post
                I think theres something lots of people need to realize, not everyone wants to play in the match making system some players will want to be able to play high skilled games where stats out side of match making may exist but do not matter or they may want to play causal games where skill isn't required but there are strict rules stopping anyone from ruining games consistently and regardless of how much valve tries to tweak match making it will never be able to provide what -everyone- wants.
                +1

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by DBX_5 View Post
                  Basically what I am saying is players want more places to play at other then match making
                  No, most people don't want that.

                  Originally posted by DBX_5 View Post
                  Theres already been discussion regarding making bots for dota2 channels and making replay parsers for the game its in valves best interest to be tightly involved within this development other wise you will see the issues that wc3 had with 3rd party application makers developing tools that abuse and ruin the game and it will just spiral out of control.
                  All bots should be banned from channels. They will only serve as catalyst for more segmentation.

                  I bet if valve devs want to, they can release a replay parser by next week. And I'm sure they will create public API for these...but all in due time.

                  No, Dota1 had the issue because it was limited in several ways. Dota2 does not have those issues. Over time, matchmaking will get better. People will have option to create their own tournament with automated ladder. May be even leagues with scores.

                  The only thing we need is integration between chat channel and steam group channel.

                  Originally posted by Taff View Post
                  So, what you're saying is i need to go out there watch replays how players play.
                  And the ones i find pro i send them friend request saying "HEY YOU PRO ME PRO LETS PARRTYYYYY"
                  I don't think soo..

                  For what you're saying i need to have at least 40+ professional players in my friend list, so i can start a game whenever i want.
                  No. When you play in matchmaking, after a few games, you will be teamed up with people similarly skilled as you. Then you can add them up as you play.

                  You can also join steam groups (and thus custom channels) consisting people you already know. Some of these groups will be private by nature. So you'll have to manage an invitation to get in.
                  Once in, you can find your so called pro players there and party up. Then go matchmaking.

                  If you want a private 5v5 game, you can arrange one from that chat channel (it will not affect your rating; it will be in practice mode).
                  Last edited by CvP; 11-15-2011, 05:06 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by CvP View Post

                    No. When you play in matchmaking, after a few games, you will be teamed up with people similarly skilled as you. Then you can add them up as you play.

                    You can also join steam groups (and thus custom channels) consisting people you already know. Some of these groups will be private by nature. So you'll have to manage an invitation to get in.
                    Once in, you can find your so called pro players there and party up. Then go matchmaking.

                    If you want a private 5v5 game, you can arrange one from that chat channel (it will not affect your rating; it will be in practice mode).
                    If you read my previous post you'd have understand.

                    anyway here is a quote from what i said.

                    -Item build?
                    -How players manage on trilanes?
                    -How players manage on solo lanes?
                    -How players play versus trilane?
                    -How players choose different item build when playing against different enemies?
                    -How players act, manners etc.
                    -How players play their heroes from supporters to carry, harrasing enemies or not.
                    -Map awareness.
                    this are values that matchmaking doesn't and will never take in option when matching people, all you get is bunch of scrubs.
                    for example:

                    Cristal Maiden taking the farm from the main carry, not warding and refusing to support.
                    Me mid boots first item players.
                    Not enough knowledge to put a trilane, by playing public matchmaking, you can tell them but no one will listen.
                    autoattackers, etc etc etc etc.

                    And by simply joining a group you wont accomplish anything, for instance, you don't have your "group ladder", its difficult to put a team to play with, and practice games are not ranked, i mean seriously, when will matchmaking improve to those standards i wrote above? never.

                    This is why the the in-house leagues were born, to play with selected players, not some random noobs who arnt open to suggestions from better players, and if you try to make them a point or comment their item build they'll get all mad and do anything to ruin the game.

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                    • #55
                      Yes, and in-house leagues were made because of the lack of any sort of ladder or matchmaking functionality. If you BELONG in the elite group of players then you will get there by playing your way up. IMO people who still want something as archaic as IHLs are the ones who probably don't belong playing with those players but will because they know someone in the group. All IHLs could do for this game is fragment the community and make the ladder pretty meaningless.

                      tl;dr - Play your way to the top of the MM ladder to play with the pros, put in the time.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Leoj View Post
                        Yes, and in-house leagues were made because of the lack of any sort of ladder or matchmaking functionality. If you BELONG in the elite group of players then you will get there by playing your way up. IMO people who still want something as archaic as IHLs are the ones who probably don't belong playing with those players but will because they know someone in the group. All IHLs could do for this game is fragment the community and make the ladder pretty meaningless.

                        tl;dr - Play your way to the top of the MM ladder to play with the pros, put in the time.
                        And witch server is missing ladder/matchmaking functionality?
                        you got plenty clients out there that have ladder, you got plenty bots out there that has ladder, and balance function to balance both teams, why do you think that in-house leagues were created only for this?


                        ps: There will be tons of players after the game is released, what makes you sure that this will fragment the community and make the ladder meaningless, people who want to play matchmaking will play matchmaking, those who are looking more will play inhouse leagues, the % of players that will be joining this groups will not be bigger than 10-12% of all players maybe low % it will probably be higher but still the total number of players that will join when the game is released, will be huge.
                        Last edited by Taff; 11-15-2011, 08:22 AM.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Taff View Post
                          If you read my previous post you'd have understand.

                          anyway here is a quote from what i said.



                          this are values that matchmaking doesn't and will never take in option when matching people, all you get is bunch of scrubs.
                          for example:

                          Cristal Maiden taking the farm from the main carry, not warding and refusing to support.
                          Me mid boots first item players.
                          Not enough knowledge to put a trilane, by playing public matchmaking, you can tell them but no one will listen.
                          autoattackers, etc etc etc etc.

                          And by simply joining a group you wont accomplish anything, for instance, you don't have your "group ladder", its difficult to put a team to play with, and practice games are not ranked, i mean seriously, when will matchmaking improve to those standards i wrote above? never.

                          This is why the the in-house leagues were born, to play with selected players, not some random noobs who arnt open to suggestions from better players, and if you try to make them a point or comment their item build they'll get all mad and do anything to ruin the game.
                          if you are as skilled as you think you are you will be matchmade with players who have the skill to do all these things.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by sterls View Post
                            if you are as skilled as you think you are you will be matchmade with players who have the skill to do all these things.
                            cool story bro.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              So basically people are talking about how IHLs are bad.

                              The issue is, there are already Dota 2 IHL leagues and the best games aren't on Dota TV. This is the reality. Typically, if you're good enough to go through the ranks, you DO get noticed. Top talent always floats to the top. New players that take their lashings in IHs get better - it's produced top-talent from medium-level players multiple times (Demon, for example).

                              Do new players need to know about their existence? This is irrelevant. If they get good, they'll know about it. The player base is already segmented. The question is, how do you un-segment it? But IHLs answer the question of: why do I have to play with bad players when I'm good enough to have only good games? Why do I have to take the chance of a random matchmaking no name no my team when I can play with established players? Why wait in 40 minute queues when I can play with all friends in an exclusive setting? If Dota 2 can take care and answer those questions, then I'm sure it'll do better than HoN did with match making.


                              Instead of working around all of that, why not just allow practice games to be broadcasted? People can watch IHL games, at least.

                              What's the big deal about everyone being on the same platform? Does it bother people if good players aren't in the same place as them?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by KingRaven View Post
                                Instead of working around all of that, why not just allow practice games to be broadcasted? People can watch IHL games, at least.
                                I do believe this functionality was added last patch? I could be wrong, I guess, but if it isn't I'm sure it will be.

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