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Skill level. How does it work?

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  • Skill level. How does it work?

    played alot of dota matches and have always thought that winning should increase your skill level.

    if you click on recent games and input your name you can sort on games with different skill level.

    for instance i have been stuck in normal for some time but now and then i get into high.

    had myself a nice winning streak and ended up in high skill level (220674139) , playing disruptor and continue my winning streak by winning that game also.

    next game (220776646) is in normal skill level, i play riki and win again.

    game after that (220974484) still in normal i play Dark Seer and i win again

    game after that (221156097) still in normal i finaly loose with viper.

    i play all kinds of modes cap/all rand/ap/least/rand draft and my last high game where all random.

    anyone what can shed some light on this issue?

    have a nice day//insanisane

  • #2
    happens to me but i start in high/normal play a little win a couple in very high and then when i lose i start over in high with kids that should be in ab-normal

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    • #3
      but i went from high to normal without any losses

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      • #4
        Every account has a player rating associated with it. Way back in the day you could use a console command to see it, but that's no longer the case. The matchmaking system tries to create games with 10 players of the same rating, but since only so many players are in the matchmaking pool at a particular time, games actually end up with players over a range of ratings. This idea is visualized by the increasing search range bar when you're looking for a game. The factors that determine a player's rating aren't public, but the general idea is that winning games you're expected to win increases it a little bit, winning games you're expected to lose increases it a lot, losing games you're expected to lose lowers it a bit, and losing games you're expected to win lowers it a lot.

        The replay skill level brackets are based on the effective average-player rating for that game. The games on the watch tab are sorted the same way too. That's why the top watch tab games are generally 5-man parties, since the system artificially boosts the rating of groups of people to compensate for their theoretically-enhanced teamwork.

        What you're experiencing is that your player rating is currently near the dividing rating between the normal rating bracket and the high rating bracket. Some games you have the lowest rating in the game and those games average out to be high bracket games. Some games you have the highest rating in the game and those games average out to be normal bracket games.

        That's the gist of it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by insanisane View Post
          played alot of dota matches and have always thought that winning should increase your skill level.

          if you click on recent games and input your name you can sort on games with different skill level.

          for instance i have been stuck in normal for some time but now and then i get into high.

          had myself a nice winning streak and ended up in high skill level (220674139) , playing disruptor and continue my winning streak by winning that game also.

          next game (220776646) is in normal skill level, i play riki and win again.

          game after that (220974484) still in normal i play Dark Seer and i win again

          game after that (221156097) still in normal i finaly loose with viper.

          i play all kinds of modes cap/all rand/ap/least/rand draft and my last high game where all random.

          anyone what can shed some light on this issue?

          have a nice day//insanisane
          Winning games is very important. Here's a chart I've been keeping recently to explain this.

          Skill Level.jpg



          The chart picks up the account after about 600 games, where there are 8 more wins than losses.

          I tracked it over about 100 games. Over that period the win ratio is about 65%.

          The vertical axis is wins minus losses.

          The account was quite deep in Normal it seems, so it took about 10 wins (minus losses) or so to get into High and then a further 30 or so, to get properly into Very High.

          It's worth noting that there are still some Very High and Normal games sprinkled around.

          All of the games were solo queue games apart from the ones marked as Party.


          If you play from a fresh account then you can get into High and Very High after a few games, but the standard there is more messy than those skill levels on well established accounts.

          Hope this helps.

          If you have any more questions, I'm more than happy to help.
          Last edited by Craig; 06-18-2013, 01:26 PM.
          To avoid LPQ:

          Don't draw attention to yourself
          Don't use voice or chat except for 'ss'
          Mute all at lvl 1
          Only play in parties
          Get alternate accounts
          Limit your usage to one or two games per day per account
          Don't play too well
          Don't play on Sunday or Monday
          Wait until the developers reset LPQ status

          If you're getting matched with trolls or feeders:

          You may have been placed in a hidden pool. There is no known way out of this, apart from moving to a different account.

          Comment


          • #6
            Very good statistics Craig, thanks for that

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            • #7
              a game with a leaver, which is abandoning and the rest of the players following his command gets counted as a "normal" game. that is why there are still normal games around.

              a smurf from a player, which usually playing in "high" bracket will probably win his first 2-3 games if he trys hard. 2-3 games is for valve enough proof to put him into very high bracket.

              the actuall problem are not the low win accounts getting matched with high game accounts. the problem is that skill gaps are too big.

              Fletcher once told the mmr of some people - the widest gap of 2 players was 4150 to 3550. a skill-gap of 600 that's like 15% if i am correct. This is too much and destroys experience of both teams.

              Comment


              • #8
                I guess you should start to play other heroes OP. Your win ratio with ~95% of the heroes is below 50%.
                It is not enough to pick Riki and BH every game and achieve a 60% ratio with them, because every other guy who does this would get the same score.
                Therefore MM "thinks" you can only play pub bashers and are incompetent with each other hero. That might be the reason you are matched with mediocre players.

                Btw, the replay tag doesn't mean much. It is not your skill level. Hopefully, you won't see this post as a flame. It's not meant to be one

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mr.Evo View Post
                  I guess you should start to play other heroes OP. Your win ratio with ~95% of the heroes is below 50%.
                  It is not enough to pick Riki and BH every game and achieve a 60% ratio with them, because every other guy who does this would get the same score.
                  Therefore MM "thinks" you can only play pub bashers and are incompetent with each other hero. That might be the reason you are matched with mediocre players.

                  Btw, the replay tag doesn't mean much. It is not your skill level. Hopefully, you won't see this post as a flame. It's not meant to be one
                  Your post is INCREDIBLY inaccurate. I have several pub-basher accounts that only play one hero in high and very high. The heroes you play don't mean squat, the amount of wins don't mean anything either. The entire system is based on stats (kills/deaths mostly).

                  It doesn't mater what winning streaks you have or if you won the few games you had in high, what matters is what your stats were in those games! You get into high by having great kda in normal, you get into very high by having great kda in high. I'm sure some people will try to claim that I'm wrong but I have 20 accounts and thousands of games testing this that say otherwise.
                  Ladder = gives players incentive towards winning. Encourages team work, cooperation, and less selfish play.

                  Mute system = Discourages the majority of communication outside of miss calls, removes accountability, and gives bad players the ability to bully anyone they wish.

                  Makes perfect sense to me when you consider that Valve wants to make the game as casual as possible in-order to compete with League of Legends and sell more hats.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Destro View Post
                    Your post is INCREDIBLY inaccurate. I have several pub-basher accounts that only play one hero in high and very high. The heroes you play don't mean squat, the amount of wins don't mean anything either. The entire system is based on stats (kills/deaths mostly).

                    It doesn't mater what winning streaks you have or if you won the few games you had in high, what matters is what your stats were in those games! You get into high by having great kda in normal, you get into very high by having great kda in high. I'm sure some people will try to claim that I'm wrong but I have 20 accounts and thousands of games testing this that say otherwise.
                    as far as that one dev hinted, stats only matter for the first ~75 games. Then youre ELO is calculated and begins to make changes with each game. These changes become smaller and smaller (naturally).
                    Only conclusion for me is, that after ~75 games its all about winning and nothing else.

                    But its true that only 1 hero is enough to reach any bracket you want.

                    Mr. Evo, the replay thing is an indicator in which bracket you are!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I dont know how much it really does rely on KDA ratio, but when you were in high (not in solo queue) and you started to play just in "normal skill games", it usually happens when you are matched with 4 members party team. it happened to me also back then, but it was the opposite, i was playing in normal bracket, and I was 5th player to 4players stack which were playing in high bracket. So the game just adds you to proper team to "balance" game. If that happened in solo queue, then i have no idea.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Losing a game can cause a person to increase their skill if it drives them to refine their mechanical abilities and increase their knowledge.

                        There is always something to improve, and losing can be a good way to show you what needs improving.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Everything works as intended. To make you understand better, yes winning is everything but to classify which rank the game is (normal or high) the system takes on the AVERAGE of all players. So if the average is below certain point - normal. I am sure your elo is in high but its in the border so sometimes matchmaking finds people that are little bit below your elo which results in the average of a NORMAL level game. Hope this clears it up!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Destro View Post
                            Your post is INCREDIBLY inaccurate. I have several pub-basher accounts that only play one hero in high and very high. The heroes you play don't mean squat, the amount of wins don't mean anything either. The entire system is based on stats (kills/deaths mostly).

                            It doesn't mater what winning streaks you have or if you won the few games you had in high, what matters is what your stats were in those games! You get into high by having great kda in normal, you get into very high by having great kda in high. I'm sure some people will try to claim that I'm wrong but I have 20 accounts and thousands of games testing this that say otherwise.
                            You are mostly right with what you say, but that hasen't much to do with what I tried to point out.

                            Guys like "Aesthetic Man"(Wisp 80% VH player) and Admiral Bulldog show playing one hero can bring you to the front page. The thing I wanted OP to tell though is he played "easy" heroes and achieved the same good results as all other guys who play these heroes. However whenever he played another hero he had worse scores than the average player. This doesn't have to mean he is bad, but it's a thing.

                            To conclude, the hero you pick does not matter, but the performance you have does.
                            @Dortayo: As far as a dev hinted, there are no brackets. The same replay may have a different label for two players. It's an indicator to an extend, because when your games are labeled "normal" you are unlikely to be in the top 1%.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mr.Evo View Post
                              To conclude, the hero you pick does not matter, but the performance you have does.
                              @Dortayo: As far as a dev hinted, there are no brackets. The same replay may have a different label for two players. It's an indicator to an extend, because when your games are labeled "normal" you are unlikely to be in the top 1%.
                              I dont play enough to prove you false, but as far as Ive experienced thats not true.
                              While I play in very high on my smurf account, my friend plays normal. Whenever we play together we're in high bracket.. When we played together the first time it was normal bracket. This is true for both of us, we always get to see the same bracket (~400 games). Dotabuff shows the matches as well just like that.

                              The dev said (I was talking about fletcher by the way, this said a different one) that the skill brackets were fluid and the replay brackets only gave a hint in what skill bracket youre playing.. That means my very high is not the same as Sing's very high, thats it.

                              I thought there might be a twist as well, but it just makes too much sense that way.

                              Now that we now that there is indeed an elo based on numbers that are calculated in an unkown way, we can assume that these numbers belong to a certain skill bracket.
                              Very high might be (2500-2800) e.g.

                              Im sure Craig could correct my assumptions, he's more into statistics and really keeps track. Like I said, though I wish it wasnt true sometimes, it very likely is.

                              Comment

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