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21:9 Support

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  • #16
    Lmao, you can't simply use a sqare to compare it. Use a proper screenshot of the same position and you'll see that it IS huge in fact, just as huge as the comparison between 4:3 and 16:9 and that's worse enough, but propably unavoidable as they're currently the standard.

    (Stolen from http://www.playdota.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=51)

    EDIT: Or just think about your numbers. 124k visible pixels vs 100k visible pixels. 124k is 24% more then 100k (or the other way round, 100 is ~20% less then 124k). That's quite much.
    Last edited by Kryil-; 07-01-2013, 01:52 AM.
    If you think I've closed or deleted a post unjustified, feel free to PM me and I'll explain it to you/discuss it with you further.

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    • #17
      My birthday was on the 26th and I received a new monitor that has a max resolution of 2560x1080. I'm running into the exact same issue with the minimap. The HUD scales up as it's supposed too, but the minimap remains the same size leaving a big ugly empty area. I can understand that some people might feel the increased resolution is cheating but in all honesty it's a hardware issue that should be accounted for. It'd be like telling people they can't use their extra mouse buttons because my mouse only has two of them.

      Untitled.jpg
      Last edited by zaksquatch; 07-01-2013, 05:16 PM.

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      • #18
        The highest viewable area (16:9) will always be the norm. Changing that changes the requirements to play the game, period. It is not a matter of accommodating any kind of hardware, as anyone can run windowed borderless in 16:9 resolution - it is a matter of having the most played and necessary shape of DotA 2 be visually enjoyable.

        If removing that cap were allowed, we'd be playing on horizontally stretched resolutions regardless of monitor (as was the case around a year ago, when you could actually cheat the FoV this way by launching at a custom resolution like 1900*900). I honestly don't even like the leniency of the current approach, where net area is sort-of maintained if you try to push the ratio past 16:9 - it can still be abused a bit. Wider than 16:9 should simply not be allowed or render black sidebars and display an exact replica of a 16:9 layout.

        This is not a usability question, but entirely a matter of cheatproofing. If you gave me the option to zoom out, I'd immediately zoom out and drop my camera speed below 8000 - visible area is very crucial, particularly in teamfights.

        Edit:
        Also I assume DerSize is joking, but his post contains a fundamental algebra error. [(a x b) - (c x d)]^0.5 =/= (a-c) * (b-d)
        Last edited by yourmomseemscool; 07-01-2013, 09:08 PM.

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        • #19
          All I'm really asking for is the minimap to be increased in size so that the HUD doesn't have a glaring hole in it.

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          • #20
            The only advantage you get is not having to edge pan to look left or right. You still have fog. It's not a huge deal. You bought the monitor. Can we just get this fixed? It's been almost a year since this thread started and not even a proper reply on what will happen about this... Valve, c'mon.

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            • #21
              Bump

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              • #22
                Bumping this thread!

                I'm kinda interested in getting a 21:9 monitor at some point, but a) they're still pretty expensive and b) I don't like that they only have 1080 pixels in height (There is one from LG with 1440pixel height, but a)). I'm also concerned that my favorite games won't support that aspect ration, one of them being Dota 2.

                Some points that came to my mind:
                - HUD scaling in 21:9 currently takes away pixels in height. It is roughly about 50 pixels from 16:9 to 21:9 (1080px height), not much bust still a loss.
                - Minimap is quite far away from the center of the screen. Glancing to the minimap is easier/faster on screens with smaller aspect ratio.
                - In general the information on the bottom HUD is more widespread.
                - HUD should scale based on the height.

                Also to the people complaining about 21:9 "cheating". You kind of compare apples to oranges. Sure 21:9 has advantage over 16:9, but so does 16:9 over 4:3. In pubs these differences don't matter because of the diversity of the player base and their hardware. In pro tournaments there is no real diversity on the hardware side, because every team has the same basic setup.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by DerKoch View Post
                  Also to the people complaining about 21:9 "cheating". You kind of compare apples to oranges. Sure 21:9 has advantage over 16:9, but so does 16:9 over 4:3. In pubs these differences don't matter because of the diversity of the player base and their hardware. In pro tournaments there is no real diversity on the hardware side, because every team has the same basic setup.
                  Then you could have set your own camera zoom in game. Sorry but you don't get to decide what is cheating and what is not.

                  What valve should do is make sure the hud works properly in 21:9 but the view port remains 16:9 max.

                  What you should do is select 1920x1080 resolution from dota video options.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by CvP View Post
                    What you should do is select 1920x1080 resolution from dota video options.
                    This, Although it will have a large area of "black border" unless the stretching is now a thing.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Naxva View Post
                      This, Although it will have a large area of "black border" unless the stretching is now a thing.
                      Personally I prefer border instead of stretching but both options are available for users.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by CvP View Post
                        Then you could have set your own camera zoom in game. Sorry but you don't get to decide what is cheating and what is not.
                        But the zoom stays the same on all ratios. The camera is at the same height over the map in 21:9 as it is in 16:9 and 4:3 (at least it looks like it on the screen). If anyone with a 21:9 monitor could make some comparison screenies from some spots other than fountain/base with 16:9/4:3 overlayed (like on page 2), that would be great.

                        Originally posted by CvP View Post
                        What valve should do is make sure the hud works properly in 21:9 but the view port remains 16:9 max.
                        If your HUD scales to the full 21:9 and you actual game view is only 16:9, then, with the current HUD scale, you would even have a disadvantage over native 16:9 users! What's the point of supporting 21:9 then? Ahhh you know what, screw 21:9, 16:9 and 16:10, let's go back to the 90's with 4:3, it's better in any aspect!
                        I think Valve should support every aspect ratio that is possible with a single monitor. If they have a slight advantage with a higher fow, so let them have it! It doesn't necessarily make them a better player. Complaining about 21:9 sounds like the shitstorm from yeara ago when 16:9 entered the PC market. What if 21:9 becomes a standard like 16:9 did years ago? TI5 in 21:9, that would be awesome.


                        As a sidenote: I recently started to play CSS fun wars with friends and I can not expect every opponent to have the same setup. Some might have a tripe monitor setup, where they see everything with their huge fov; some others might have a 120Hz monitor, a better internet connection or a really good sound setup, where they can hear steps earlier. Would you guys consider this as cheating?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by DerKoch View Post
                          But the zoom stays the same on all ratios. The camera is at the same height over the map in 21:9 as it is in 16:9 and 4:3 (at least it looks like it on the screen). If anyone with a 21:9 monitor could make some comparison screenies from some spots other than fountain/base with 16:9/4:3 overlayed (like on page 2), that would be great.


                          If your HUD scales to the full 21:9 and you actual game view is only 16:9, then, with the current HUD scale, you would even have a disadvantage over native 16:9 users! What's the point of supporting 21:9 then? Ahhh you know what, screw 21:9, 16:9 and 16:10, let's go back to the 90's with 4:3, it's better in any aspect!
                          I think Valve should support every aspect ratio that is possible with a single monitor. If they have a slight advantage with a higher fow, so let them have it! It doesn't necessarily make them a better player. Complaining about 21:9 sounds like the shitstorm from yeara ago when 16:9 entered the PC market. What if 21:9 becomes a standard like 16:9 did years ago? TI5 in 21:9, that would be awesome.


                          As a sidenote: I recently started to play CSS fun wars with friends and I can not expect every opponent to have the same setup. Some might have a tripe monitor setup, where they see everything with their huge fov; some others might have a 120Hz monitor, a better internet connection or a really good sound setup, where they can hear steps earlier. Would you guys consider this as cheating?
                          If you want to get rid of the fisheye view or borders, then 21:9 will have high (insane) visibility advantage compared to 16:9 (4:3).
                          This game is designed for 16:9 view (as most people have that) where 4:3 is in a little disadvantage. That doesn't give you the right to get advantage using 21:9.

                          Where did you get that? Are you thick or cant think straight? The hud can be scaled any way needed (horizontally/vertically) in any ratio and fix minimap gap etc while keeping the view port same as 16:9.

                          21:9 is never going to be the majority standard. QHD (minority) and UHD (majority) will be. Both of them are 16:9.

                          This is Dota; not CSS.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by CvP View Post
                            Where did you get that? Are you thick or cant think straight? The hud can be scaled any way needed (horizontally/vertically) in any ratio and fix minimap gap etc while keeping the view port same as 16:9.
                            I guess there was a misunderstanding here: what I meant was the way the HUD scales now in 21:9. If you had 1080 pixel height in all the different aspect ratios, 21:9, 16:9, 16:10,and 4:3, then you would see that the HUD in 21:9 has a larger height.
                            Here a pic I hacked together with the given screenshots from this thread and GIMP:

                            In words: the actual minimap scales correct in 21:9, the rest of the HUD does not! This problem goes on with increasing width, you probably have seen the EyeFinity screenshits where the HUD takes over half of the screen.

                            I will keep my mouth shut about the advantages of 21:9 (for now). But I would like to add a suggestion to you black bars on each side, because if find them a bit wasteful: How about displaying other stuff, e.g. the shop, stats, chat, kill log or the user hero guides. Displaying the selected hero guide would actually be pretty nice, because you could read the text while still seeing what is going on on the map. In general all these things don't give you a gamebreaking advantage when displayed permanently.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DerKoch View Post
                              I guess there was a misunderstanding here: what I meant was the way the HUD scales now in 21:9. If you had 1080 pixel height in all the different aspect ratios, 21:9, 16:9, 16:10,and 4:3, then you would see that the HUD in 21:9 has a larger height.
                              Here a pic I hacked together with the given screenshots from this thread and GIMP:

                              In words: the actual minimap scales correct in 21:9, the rest of the HUD does not! This problem goes on with increasing width, you probably have seen the EyeFinity screenshits where the HUD takes over half of the screen.

                              I will keep my mouth shut about the advantages of 21:9 (for now). But I would like to add a suggestion to you black bars on each side, because if find them a bit wasteful: How about displaying other stuff, e.g. the shop, stats, chat, kill log or the user hero guides. Displaying the selected hero guide would actually be pretty nice, because you could read the text while still seeing what is going on on the map. In general all these things don't give you a gamebreaking advantage when displayed permanently.
                              Ofc, that's what I said. Fix 21:9 so it gives equal view like 16:9.

                              Adding other things in 21:9 instead of black border is still an advantage though a tiny one. I personally don't have any issues with that however, I doubt valve will spend time on that given 21:9 is extreme minority and it will remain so in future.

                              Oh and your picture clearly shows the advantage of 21:9 if it displays all those pixels properly.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I have dual screens. Both on 1920x1080. I found you could add the minimap FULLY on one screen while your game is on the other.
                                Could you possibly do this? I think I used XSplit. Just selected the image area and portrayed it on the 2nd monitor. Not sure if this could work on a single however?
                                Just a suggestion.

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